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Old 07-07-2005, 01:44 AM   #1
AzNStiImpreza
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Default 2003 WRX engine/tranny swap into 2000 2.5RS issues. . . help please.

alright.

so we've completed most of the swap already.
WRX engine and tranny is in. everything mechanical is in.
note the engine is 2003 WRX, the tranny is 2004 WRX.

i've basically completed the wiring. Including the fuel pump controller, which i have major questions about.

the only thing i'm missing right now, is tranny harness (connecter T9), and the Vehicle Speed Sensor. i just recently ordered these.

So, we made an attempt to start the car today.
i put it into accessory first. my gauges light up and everything (i plugged in the instrument cluster to test, dash and dash bar is still off the car).
one thing we noticed. . . the fuel pump doesnt turn on.(using walbro 255) (no noise can be heard from the rear). . . then i tried starting the car anyway. . . the starter works. . . but it doesnt turn. almost as if the battery is weak or something, but that doesnt seem to be the case.

so fuel pump doesnt power.
starter works but doesnt turn.
can the fuel pump not working be causing this?
is there any other reason why the car isn't starting???

i'm not 100% about any of my wiring, so hopefully i just screwed up somewhere (most likely) and something is up.

the fuel pump controller wiring is question able. i dont understand the explanation of the diagrams. (subaru diagrams suck. . . some colors dont match!!! one particular diagram doesnt even match when i follow the actual wires around the car!! what the hell?)

***note. . . i do not have the rear harness... therefore i'm mounting the FPC in the front of the car, near the ECU (like Anthony, aka xntric with the wrx/legacy) i'm basically splicing it directly onto the controller by cutting away the plastic using heatshrink and electrical tape.

here is a diagram i drew. . .


most likely. . . i wired it up wrong. . . so the fuel pump isnt getting power. . .
please help.

any help would be very very very... appreciated.

-Vu-
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Last edited by AzNStiImpreza; 07-07-2005 at 10:17 AM.
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Old 07-07-2005, 02:04 AM   #2
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vu, im sorry did i take something you needed? the tranny harness or the VSS?
sorry man
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Old 07-07-2005, 02:31 AM   #3
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nah. . . i think those are tranny specific. i dont think i can use those anyway.
Lachute Subaru should have included it, but they didnt... so. i dont think there are any subaru engine dealers that are fully trustworthy these days. . .
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Old 07-07-2005, 02:59 AM   #4
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i just did the swap on my 2002 rs.. as far as the FPC, on my car at least.. there were 6 wires right?

2 of them (pins 6and 7 on fpc) go to a connector with 2 pins that was under the rear seat in my car. that just plugged straight in. one of the wires (pin 5 on fpc) is just a ground. you can wire it to any chassis ground in the car.

there were only 3 pins i had to change, and those are for the remaining 3 wires. they went to the 2 connectors on the passenger side door sill under the carpet.
the light green/red (pin 9 on fpc) and the Violet/White (pin 8 on fpc) go to pin 20 and 19 respectively in connector R3. those pins spots should just be open on the rs harness. so you just have to plug the pins in.

the black yellow wire (pin 10 on fpc) goes to pin 7 on connector R1. for this one i had to pull the old pin out and plug that one in.

BTW my diagram shows the FPC pins as:

10
9
8
6
7
5

unfortunately i dont know if any of this will help you on your 2000.. but thats what i had to do on my 2002 rs, with a 2002 wrx motor.

good luck!
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Old 07-07-2005, 10:16 AM   #5
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hmm. . . sounds a tad different.
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Old 07-07-2005, 11:30 AM   #6
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there was a thread about this less than a month ago with the answers ..

iirc the FSM was incorrect about the pin out
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Old 07-07-2005, 11:57 AM   #7
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i wouldnt have started this thread if i didnt do a search.

i already did a search, but the answers on the particular thread you may be talking about didnt have clear-cut answers.
plus, i have a problem with the starter.
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Old 07-07-2005, 12:16 PM   #8
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If you look directly at the FPC, from left to right pins 5-10 :

5 - ground
6 - ground side of the fuel pump
7 - power to the fuel pump
8 - from ecu / b136 - c15
9 - from ecu / b134 - a13
10 - 12volts/ign on . Take this from the RS output from the fuel pump relay . You have to ground the light green on the relay itself because it is normally turned on by the RS ecu.
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Old 07-07-2005, 12:49 PM   #9
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that is exacty wut i did. . .

im just not sure.
since i dont have the connector to the FPC, i think i did the wires backwards.

the connector to the FPC would be
5 6 7 8 9 10

but since i dont have the connector, and splicing directy to the FPC should it be
10 9 8 7 6 5 ????

when the FPC looking at it looks like this... or am i wrong?

|------|____|------|
| 10 9 8 7 6 5 |
|-------------------|
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Old 07-07-2005, 12:59 PM   #10
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The other way........ 5 6 7 8 9 10
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Old 07-07-2005, 01:09 PM   #11
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damn it... seems like i did it right then

i took these pins. . . and did this to the FPC

5 - spliced to a random ground

6 - spliced to the black wire underneath the rear seat that leads to the fuel pump (orignally this is a ground wire for the fuel pump on the RS)

7 - i splced this to the black/red wire, leads underneath the rear seat that connects to the same connector as the black wire to the fuel pump

8 - goes to c15 on WRX ECU

9 - goes to a13 on WRX ECU

10 - i took this wire, and spliced it to the black/red wire i cut for pin number 7 (RS fuel pump relay to fuel pump) since i cut the signal from the fuel pump and spliced it to the FPC, it left the wire leading to the FUel pump relay open, so i spliced pin 10 on the FPC to that.

i dunno... the fuel pump doenst go on when i turn the key.

and my starter just goes CLICK! once. even if i press and hold the ignition, it just goes CLICK! once. . . and thats it.

no cranking, and the fuel pump doesnt power. . . i dunno.

would the fact that i dont have the Neutral Position Switch (T9) and the Vehicle Speed Sensor plugged in the tranny cause a starting problem. according to the diagram, they are both related to the fuel level sensor... for some odd reason. . . i dunno.

Last edited by AzNStiImpreza; 07-07-2005 at 01:30 PM.
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Old 07-07-2005, 01:59 PM   #12
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Your starter prob may or may not be connected to the fuel issue. The fuel pump should whirrr for ~3 seconds when you turn the car to "on" but not crank. You need to grab your volt meter and get familiar with it!

I just resolved a similar issue with the fuel pump myself. I said screw the stock wiring to the fuel pump from the FMU and ran wires myself. I had them backwards.. BUT it would still power up when you turn the car to on. Grab your voltmeter check if you are getting power to the FMU (thats the wires from the fuel pump realy and the random ground. You should get about 10V. You check at the FMU itself with all wires attached. If you do, then see if the FMU is sending V to the fuel pump. First you check at the FMU, then the next connection, all the way back to the last connection you messed with (should be the 2 pin white/ clear connector under where the rear passangers side seat is). Origionally it is a BR and B connector. B is ground. I know this now . You probably arent getting V back there. If you are, its your pump. If you not, then follow it back and where the V stops, theres your problem. If the FMU isnt getting power check the fuel pump relay. The 2 BR wires should get ~10 V, and you check using the ground in the plug (I think its a light green wire..dont remember what pin. It isnt the GR one). Thats all I can help with now knowing what I know and with the info provided.

Randy
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Old 07-07-2005, 02:06 PM   #13
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hmmm... ill have to do that i guess
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Old 07-07-2005, 02:46 PM   #14
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Since you changed tranny's, did you wire in the clutch switch or use your existing? Likely this may be related to the starter issue. When I converted mine from AT->MT I had to do this too. If you don't close the clutch loop then the starter won't turn.

As for the FPC, you need to match the wires with terminals as if there was a connector in place...
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Old 07-07-2005, 03:13 PM   #15
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hmm... im freakin confused now. jahahahaha

i've noticed that on the RS, the clutch switch, wire green/yellow connects with the starter interlock relay. that relay on the RS DOES NOT go back to the ECU.

BUT, on the WRX, the clutch switch wire, also green/yellow goes to the starter interlock relay, but the difference is, there is a pin on that relay that DOES go back to the ECU. . .

its wierd, on the starter system page of the diagram is doesnt go to the ecu on the RS... but the engine electrical page it does... wut the hell???

maybe i screwed up somewhre along those lines as well...

i freakin suck

Last edited by AzNStiImpreza; 07-07-2005 at 03:36 PM.
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Old 07-07-2005, 03:37 PM   #16
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The starter is getting power.
Its just clicking.

Its as if its not turning the flywheel, but it wants to just wont budge. Would it be a problem to use the 2.5RS starter rather than the WRX starter?
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Old 07-07-2005, 03:44 PM   #17
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yeah the more I read the more I'm willing to shell out 1k to send my harness to a pro and get it merged.
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Old 07-07-2005, 03:53 PM   #18
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nah...i dun think it is worth $1,000

i'd rather do it myself with the help with wonderful Nasioc, and spend the 1k on a utec w/tune

Jose, all 5 speed manual starters are the same.
the way the starter clicks... it sounds like the power is weak...
it has happened to me before... i was sitting inside my car, listening to music, and i tried starting the car and it just clicked... and that was it. the lights worked, and the stereo worked... just the car didn't start.

it's definitely a wiring issue somewhere. possible with relay or something.
i'm trying to figure that out.
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Old 07-07-2005, 03:58 PM   #19
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Do you know if the flywheel will even turn?

[rant]
So far I'm totally disappointed in Lachute for the thrown together motor bundle they sent you. I wouldnít be surprised if that motor's seized up...
[/rant]

Regarding the clutch switch, when the switch is closed (clutch pedal pushed to floor) it enables the starter interlock relay to provide power to the starter, given the key is in the START position (Ignition Switch ST). It may be something as simple as the clutch switch not properly wired. I would test the starter motor wire (yellow wire, 1-pin B14 connector) to ensure itís receiving power when the ignition is turned.
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Old 07-07-2005, 04:05 PM   #20
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i gotta handle one thing at a time...

i gotta get my fuel pump to go on first. . .
then i'll see about the starter. . . the diagrams dont help especially since engine electrical section of the diagrams describing the starter system isnt the same as the starter system schematic in the diagram...

if i had a scanner, i can scan it in and show you how rediculous the diagram is. . . i dunno which to follow.

later tonight... im gonna follow the wires... which is a PITA... and see whats correct.
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Old 07-07-2005, 04:14 PM   #21
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You should be able to follow the FSM engine electrical diagrams and get it to work.. I did. Are you using a WRX harness (USDM) or a JDM one? That might play a role in your confusion. AFAIR, the fuel pump/ relay diagrams are spot on..and dont go only by wire color.. but go by pin location. We have the same car so it should be the same (but I am using an 02 motor and my origional tranny). Also something that would have helped me is as you move/ pin plugs, MAKE SURE YOU GOT THE PLUG OREINTATED CORRECTLY! Afterwards I actually colored all the bottoms black to make sure of this when re-checking. Make sure you got the top up.. I misplaced 4 wires that way.. so far. Label and recheck. Its tedious, but it will save you headache!!
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Old 07-07-2005, 04:40 PM   #22
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F'in right.
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Old 07-07-2005, 05:10 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AzNStiImpreza
nah...i dun think it is worth $1,000

i'd rather do it myself with the help with wonderful Nasioc, and spend the 1k on a utec w/tune
The more I think about it the more I realize TIME is MONEY and all those hours aren't worth it financially. Pride? Yes of course I would LOVE to learn it, but I have tons of things going on in my life and doing wiring would stop a lot of things from happening based on what I have read.

That's just my take on it
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Old 07-08-2005, 01:21 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benjaminetanyahoo
The more I think about it the more I realize TIME is MONEY and all those hours aren't worth it financially. Pride? Yes of course I would LOVE to learn it, but I have tons of things going on in my life and doing wiring would stop a lot of things from happening based on what I have read.

That's just my take on it
The wiring is seriously not that difficult to figure out. If you spend the time to label everything as you cut and and actually figure out a plan of attack before you get started it can be done in a few days if you dedicate yourself to it.

Also Aznstiimpreza did you remember to ground the one wire directly off of the fuel pump relay? I do not think that this will cause the pump not to work but its worth a shot. Another thought is do you know for certain that your fuel pump works and that none of the associated fuses for it are blown? I dunno if you got it new or used but that is always worth a try. If you do not get anywhere tonight and you have any wiring/signal questions I am gonna take my notes and wiring books to work with me tomorrow just make a post or pm me and I will try to help you out. Finally you do not have to acutally physicially trace out all the wires just use your multimeter and make continuity checks. If you have no resistance from one end of a wire to what is supposed to be the opposite end then your connection is good and you did not miswire it.

Last edited by agterlik; 07-08-2005 at 01:34 AM.
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Old 07-08-2005, 11:12 AM   #25
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Did you ground out Pin 3 on the Fuel Pump Relay? On the RS it goes into the ECM for the ground on the WRX it grounds into the harness. I usually splice it into the Black wire that comes off of Pin 1 on the main relay when I do swaps.

Z
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