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Old 09-25-2012, 05:06 PM   #1
taipan
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Default Knock Detector for Android

Hi everyone and respect for world best community,

After getting by Forester XT MT and reading hundreds of pages for EJ series, pistons, detonations and so on, I was sure that I've done the right choice and I can safely reach 300+ whp for DD. So I got latest EJ257, blouch XT, full turbo back, tune etc

The only thing I wanted to make sure is keep the engine far from detonations. So I decided to write an application that can easily test for knock events anywhere and anytime without bothering with complicated logging and analysis. So here it is the Knock Detector for Android devices with Torque Pro installed.

It can work on any car manufacturer and test any OBD2 enabled car with gas engine. I made many tests on XTs, GTs, WRXs and verified results with logs from RomRaider. Depending on WOT position, speed and revs it will catch all timing advance retards - either feedbacked or learned detonations and will consider stock tune initial advance change.

I wanted to share this with you and will be glad if I can help. Test safely and don't worry if detonations are reported - they can be learned from ECU and will disappear soon or fake ones or issue with the app

I'll be very happy for any feedback. Here it is the link again: Knock Detector
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Last edited by taipan; 09-25-2012 at 05:14 PM.
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Old 09-26-2012, 02:04 AM   #2
paulpat
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This sounds awesome. I will look into this when I get time. Currently my tactrix cable is broken and looking for a quick fix.
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Old 09-26-2012, 06:22 AM   #3
paul_p1
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What bluetooth adapter do you use?
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Old 09-26-2012, 07:32 AM   #4
taipan
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I use KIWI device and cheap ebay ELM327. No issues with both. It should work with all devices that Torque supports. The main reason to implement Knock Detector as Torque plugin is the nice and professional support for various devices.
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Old 09-26-2012, 07:33 AM   #5
dwmoss_68
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Nice I'll check it out!! Thanks
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Old 09-26-2012, 08:01 AM   #6
Mr645
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Cool. I just installed the plug in. I'll check it out on the way to work this morning.

Stg II '12 WRX, Mikey Tune to 18.5 PSI
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Old 09-26-2012, 08:25 AM   #7
taipan
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Thank you too guys !

With two of the tested subies single detonation was reported at 4600 - 5400 rev range, but it appeared to be learnt, because after 3,4 pulls they disappeared. One can see how Subaru Knock Control is working. Of course there is nothing Subaru specific in the app, but it is Subaru driven.

Mr645, for your setup press full throttle on 3-rd at around 2000 revs. After finishing the test press Test again for new one if needed. Good luck and keep safe.

P.S.
In the near future I'd like to add graphs and boost spike detection. The idea is again to enable easy testing and check for indications, not to replace full logging.

Last edited by taipan; 09-26-2012 at 08:31 AM.
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Old 09-26-2012, 11:04 AM   #8
izergfx
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What metric does the app monitor for knock?
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Old 09-26-2012, 11:21 AM   #9
Mr645
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I was able to do a 2nd gear pull to 6000 and it showed no knock. Cop behind me prevented more pulls and finally beginning a 4 the gear pull, wife calls. Try again later. Btw the car typically spikes to 18.5-19.7 psi and settles in low 18's. Then slowly dropping off at high rpm
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Old 09-26-2012, 11:23 AM   #10
taipan
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izergfx,

In order to keep car manufacturer independent It uses heuristic algorithm based on analysis of timing advance, throttle(detect WOT position), revs and speed. That's why on some specific factory map it might have issues and report fake detonations. I've looked for many Subaru logs to tune the algorithm so It handles the normal factory timing retard around 2500 - 3000 revs on the latest turbo models.

Here are both conditions that it wont work properly in Subaru world:
-It might skip "minor" detonations
-If IAM is affected(different from 1(or 16)) there might be some serious issue(only in case ECU was not restarted) but these are very rear cases and sooner or later a feedback or fine detonation will be reported and detected

Nevertheless, in most of the cases it should work fine, in my experience with Subarus - in all cases
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Old 09-26-2012, 11:26 AM   #11
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Mr645,
Perfect ! I guess 3-rd pull is enough at least for the WRX gearing, 4-th might be a little bit speedy.
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Old 09-26-2012, 11:27 AM   #12
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I wouldn't call that a knock detector, its a knock reporter... it relies on the pre-existing systems to detect knock and respond to it, you are merely reporting on those responses. BIG difference. (not saying it isn't a cool app, but for tuning purposes, its better to know about it BEFORE the engine systems have to take measures)

True knock detectors are things like a KnockLite, which don't care about the response, they detect the knock as it happens.
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Old 09-26-2012, 05:11 PM   #13
taipan
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You are right and I want to be clear that it is based on ECU timing and thus on car's knock sensor/knock control and should be used as alarm that indicates something might be wrong, but since I do not read/use specific knock parameters I can't report them so I didn't call it reporter Thanks for the clarification.
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Old 09-26-2012, 05:15 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rkramer View Post

True knock detectors are things like a KnockLite, which don't care about the response, they detect the knock as it happens.
A knock light still reports on events after they happen, because of the nature of delay from real event to processor to light. People trust these way too much.

I can't use the app, but it is great people are being proactive.
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Old 09-26-2012, 06:02 PM   #15
Mr645
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Was able to do 3rd & 4th gear pulls. The app worked fine, picking up start and stop. No knocking reported. Would be nice if boost could be shown as well
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Old 09-27-2012, 07:48 AM   #16
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Perfect ! I'm considering boost with spike detector and have to add other features too. Thanks for the tests !
Btw you can use it while driving even without testing just to have an eye on coolant and AIT(with colouring), both very important to know when is the correct WOT time.
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Old 09-27-2012, 08:01 AM   #17
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I did notice that it says throttle is at 80% when wide open
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Old 09-27-2012, 09:40 AM   #18
taipan
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This is an issue with OBD 2 throttle position value with some car models. I also see 79 - 80 % at WOT while RomRaider logs consistent 100% values.
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Old 09-28-2012, 11:32 AM   #19
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I'm going to try this!
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Old 09-28-2012, 12:26 PM   #20
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So what are the pieces of hardware do I need to have this work?
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Old 09-28-2012, 06:14 PM   #21
taipan
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You need OBD2 bluetooth device just like ebay ELM327(paired with phone) and Android Torque pro installed(launch Knock Detector from it as menu item). It sounds hard but it is very easy in fact.
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Old 09-28-2012, 07:29 PM   #22
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I saw and installed this the other day, but haven't gotten a chance to test yet. I definitely will tomorrow and report back.
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Old 09-29-2012, 07:54 AM   #23
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Is this work for WRX 2.0 turbo mod 1996?

Thanks
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Old 09-29-2012, 08:27 AM   #24
taipan
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The car should support OBD2 protocol - in Europe most of the cars that support it are built after 2000, for USDM I guess 98 are the earliest ones.
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Old 12-28-2012, 05:10 PM   #25
paulpat
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I'm ordering the elm adapter. I just got a used ipad for x mas and i have a android phone. Does this work on the ipad? Is there something similar for the ipad?



I just want to have a use for my ipad.... currently there is no good use for my ipad.... grrr i want an opensource tablet.. grrr.
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