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Old 07-10-2012, 03:31 PM   #2526
WRX 2002
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I would go with e85 and ignore all the trouble, complexity of Meth injection (assuming your question is related to Meth injection). Make double sure the tuner knows how to tune for E85.
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Old 07-10-2012, 05:06 PM   #2527
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRX 2002 View Post
I would go with e85 and ignore all the trouble, complexity of Meth injection (assuming your question is related to Meth injection). Make double sure the tuner knows how to tune for E85.
They know how to tune with E85...but said I needed more than 740cc injectors and a 255 pump. I know of several people running 39's and e85 on similar setups. So I was surprised to see I needed larger fuel needs for a vf48.
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Old 07-10-2012, 05:13 PM   #2528
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I would think you would need a 255 pump, its recommended upgrade at the best of times. as for the injectors I'm not sure with vf48.
I'm sure I'm near the limit with my 1000cc injectors & GT3076, will check when I get the car back.
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Old 07-10-2012, 05:23 PM   #2529
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I'm sure I'm near the limit with my 1000cc injectors & GT3076, will check when I get the car back.
On e85? You should have been at the limit a long time ago, like at 16 psi. I'm running my 1000cc injectors at 65 base (acting more like 12-1300cc) and they're still hitting 100% IDC at only 19 psig on my 3076 on e85, and that's at 5500ft elevation.
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Old 07-10-2012, 06:06 PM   #2530
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Originally Posted by the suicidal eggroll View Post
On e85? You should have been at the limit a long time ago, like at 16 psi. I'm running my 1000cc injectors at 65 base (acting more like 12-1300cc) and they're still hitting 100% IDC at only 19 psig on my 3076 on e85, and that's at 5500ft elevation.
What WHP did u hit..?
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Old 07-10-2012, 07:39 PM   #2531
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Originally Posted by the suicidal eggroll View Post
On e85? You should have been at the limit a long time ago, like at 16 psi. I'm running my 1000cc injectors at 65 base (acting more like 12-1300cc) and they're still hitting 100% IDC at only 19 psig on my 3076 on e85, and that's at 5500ft elevation.
i think jr is using something similar with 35r's and stuff, and i am running 1250cc with an 8cm FPRed running 30psi tapering to 26psi. my IDC's aren't even breaking 90% with that boost.

if you are running 100% with 1000cc injectors at 65psi base (so 1222cc approx), then you are demanding almost 300lph from the fuel pump. so if your fuel pump isn't able to flow 300lph at the fuel pressure+boost pressure you are wanting to run, you are going to run out of fuel and compensate by increasing IDC's.

even if you are running the walbro 400 and a fuel pump rewire direct from the battery, you are only going to be getting about 275lph at 19psi of boost and 65psi base pressure. you aren't flowing nearly the amount of fuel being demanded by the injectors from the fuel pump.
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Old 07-10-2012, 08:08 PM   #2532
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i think jr is using something similar with 35r's and stuff, and i am running 1250cc with an 8cm FPRed running 30psi tapering to 26psi. my IDC's aren't even breaking 90% with that boost.

if you are running 100% with 1000cc injectors at 65psi base (so 1222cc approx), then you are demanding almost 300lph from the fuel pump. so if your fuel pump isn't able to flow 300lph at the fuel pressure+boost pressure you are wanting to run, you are going to run out of fuel and compensate by increasing IDC's.

even if you are running the walbro 400 and a fuel pump rewire direct from the battery, you are only going to be getting about 275lph at 19psi of boost and 65psi base pressure. you aren't flowing nearly the amount of fuel being demanded by the injectors from the fuel pump.
I don't know how you are...a Red at 26 psi at redline on a 2.5L on E85 will use a lot more fuel than 1250cc injectors can provide. Unless you're running super lean AFRs on e85...which isn't the best for power.

Just run the numbers. A red is what, a 60 lb/min turbo? That's 450 g/s of air. At an AFR of 7.4:1 (lambda of .75, or a "gas AFR" of 11.0), that's 61 g/s of fuel, or about 5083 cc/min. That's over 100% DC on 1250cc injectors.

As for my fuel setup, I have twin Walbro 255 in parallel in a surge. There is plenty of fuel available. 30r E85 setups need ~1400cc/min injectors to have some headroom, 35r needs even more.
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Old 07-10-2012, 08:21 PM   #2533
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before installing my kenne bell boost-a-pump, my fuel pump was not putting out enough fuel and i had increased MAF scaling to hold the injectors open longer. after installing the boost-a-pump, my WOT af ratio was 10.2:1! after rescaling everything, i am sitting at 11.6:1@approx 88% IDC.

are you saying you have a walbro 255 feeding a surge tank with another walbro 255 or am i not reading that right?
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Old 07-10-2012, 08:25 PM   #2534
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are you saying you have a walbro 255 feeding a surge tank with another walbro 255 or am i not reading that right?
walbro 255 feeding a surge with two walbro 255s in parallel feeding the rails. 3 pumps in total, the two in the surge are wired through two separate relays, 8ga wiring from the batt. Master relay is triggered by the fuel pump controller which feeds the first pump, secondary relay is triggered by a 10 psi switch in the manifold with an off-delay relay to keep the pump from shutting off during short pressure drops (shifting, etc).
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Old 07-10-2012, 08:54 PM   #2535
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ahhh...i see...i dunno then.

here is junior's post over in the e85 army thread of his forester...

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Originally Posted by Junior2JZ View Post
26psi id1000s, walbro 400 and e85 @ 48psi base.
Made another run at 28psi and went 105 1/8th missing 2nd and still in the low 90s for IDC. The alt died just passed the 1/8th so I lifted. Im guess maxed out id1000s with proper support will be good for 136-137mph on e85

...and here is my graph from airboy's spreadsheet with 30psi tapering to 26psi at redline. logged 88% IDC@43.5psi on this run with FIC bluemax 1250cc injectors, a dw300 fuel pump, and a kenne bell boost-a-pump (fuel pump total output at 70psi fuel pressure is close to 370lph with the boost-a-pump vs. 250lph without it )

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Old 07-11-2012, 02:25 AM   #2536
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stalkerz
Just got my car tuned with e85, my tuner have to de-tune the car to 23psi because we were running a little lean on 24psi+. He said that he try to add more fuel but that didn't help and he think we ran out of pump.

What do u guys think? I thought the dw300 should be sufficient at this power level. Will Walbro400 solve my problem?

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Old 07-11-2012, 11:07 AM   #2537
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Good call. +1 for a new map sensor since your going over 24 lbs
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Old 07-11-2012, 11:45 AM   #2538
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a new map sensor is helpful, but that won't cause or fix his issues.

stalkerz, i think your tuner is probably correct in this situation, and it sounds like your fuel pump is running out of breath at the higher boost levels. at stock fuel pressure and 25psi of boost, the dw300 pump can only provide about 250lph (if you have it rewired...if you don't you can only provide about 230-240lph). if you are running 65psi base instead of stock then you are looking at only about 190-200lph of fuel. your injectors would be demanding that amount of fuel at about 75-80% IDC. so if you are seeing 75% IDC or higher when you raise boost up, you have maxed out your pump.
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Old 07-11-2012, 12:07 PM   #2539
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Originally Posted by the suicidal eggroll View Post
walbro 255 feeding a surge with two walbro 255s in parallel feeding the rails. 3 pumps in total, the two in the surge are wired through two separate relays, 8ga wiring from the batt. Master relay is triggered by the fuel pump controller which feeds the first pump, secondary relay is triggered by a 10 psi switch in the manifold with an off-delay relay to keep the pump from shutting off during short pressure drops (shifting, etc).
I was running twin walbros on my old 35r setup and 1250cc precision injectors. It would do 480 dynojet numbers at 95% idc on e85. You running 20 psi more bse pressure is killing your flow.
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Old 07-11-2012, 05:55 PM   #2540
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a new map sensor is helpful, but that won't cause or fix his issues.

stalkerz, i think your tuner is probably correct in this situation, and it sounds like your fuel pump is running out of breath at the higher boost levels. at stock fuel pressure and 25psi of boost, the dw300 pump can only provide about 250lph (if you have it rewired...if you don't you can only provide about 230-240lph). if you are running 65psi base instead of stock then you are looking at only about 190-200lph of fuel. your injectors would be demanding that amount of fuel at about 75-80% IDC. so if you are seeing 75% IDC or higher when you raise boost up, you have maxed out your pump.
I bought a Omni 3 bar for my tuner, he told me that MAF tuning does not require a MAP upgrade unless we want to do speed density instead then we would put in the Omni, now I have the Omni3 bar for sale

I just upgraded to dw300 pump from walbro255 for this e85 tune, and yet we are running out of pump at 23/24psi, we were gonna tune to 27psi. On my other post, Phatron from Phabotti tuning suggest re-wiring pump wire to Battery will solve my issue, I'm sick of buying random parts after parts and paying multiple sessions of tuning fees for my e85 tune....

Now I need to make sure that re-wiring the fuel pump will give me enough pump to get to 27psi or I'll just get the new walbro460 pump. Re-wiring will be a cheaper route but I would rather just buy the 460 if re-wiring does not guarantee I'll have enough fuel again.

What do u guys think?
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Old 07-11-2012, 05:57 PM   #2541
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I was running twin walbros on my old 35r setup and 1250cc precision injectors. It would do 480 dynojet numbers at 95% idc on e85. You running 20 psi more bse pressure is killing your flow.
I've already run the numbers, according to every Walbro 255 flow chart out there, 65 base is fine for my flow. I can't raise the pressure any higher though.

How high are you guys running your AFR? E85 isn't like gas, max power is in the low 11s rather than gas's mid 12s. Mine is running a little richer than that right now anyway, which would explain part of the high IDC.

Last edited by the suicidal eggroll; 07-11-2012 at 06:09 PM.
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Old 07-11-2012, 07:04 PM   #2542
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stalkerz View Post
I bought a Omni 3 bar for my tuner, he told me that MAF tuning does not require a MAP upgrade unless we want to do speed density instead then we would put in the Omni, now I have the Omni3 bar for sale

I just upgraded to dw300 pump from walbro255 for this e85 tune, and yet we are running out of pump at 23/24psi, we were gonna tune to 27psi. On my other post, Phatron from Phabotti tuning suggest re-wiring pump wire to Battery will solve my issue, I'm sick of buying random parts after parts and paying multiple sessions of tuning fees for my e85 tune....

Now I need to make sure that re-wiring the fuel pump will give me enough pump to get to 27psi or I'll just get the new walbro460 pump. Re-wiring will be a cheaper route but I would rather just buy the 460 if re-wiring does not guarantee I'll have enough fuel again.

What do u guys think?
like i said, just at stock fuel pressure, your 1000cc injectors@100% IDC are demanding 240lph of fuel. if you are running 27psi of boost with stock fuel pressure, the DW300 pump with a re-wire is going to provide EXACTLY enough fuel (approx. 250lph). now, if you up the base pressure to 55psi, you are now demanding about 265lph, but the fuel pump will now only be providing about 220lph. with 65psi of base pressure, the numbers go to demanding about 295lph, but the fuel pump now is only providing about 200lph.

so...in short, i don't think a re-wire is going to be enough for you just based on the calculations because in order to have enough injector, you are going to need about 55psi base pressure, and at that base psi, the fuel pump isn't going to be able to provide enough fuel. so the walbro pump gets my vote.

Quote:
Originally Posted by the suicidal eggroll View Post
I've already run the numbers, according to every Walbro 255 flow chart out there, 65 base is fine for my flow. I can't raise the pressure any higher though.

How high are you guys running your AFR? E85 isn't like gas, max power is in the low 11s rather than gas's mid 12s. Mine is running a little richer than that right now anyway, which would explain part of the high IDC.
i played with my af ratios from 10.5-12.5, and i made the most power around 11.5-11.8.
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Old 07-11-2012, 09:33 PM   #2543
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I'm looking to ditch the 04 STI intank filter and install a after pump filter that is good for E85.

I am running dual in-tank Walbros with the filter socks, aeromotive rails, -6an lines, ID2000 injectors.

Which filter should I purchase for E85?
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Old 07-11-2012, 09:49 PM   #2544
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russell competition in-line fuel filter from summit racing is a great product...e-85 safe, high pressure safe, and a washable filter element. plus, they are only like $25.
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Old 07-11-2012, 10:06 PM   #2545
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russell competition in-line fuel filter from summit racing is a great product...e-85 safe, high pressure safe, and a washable filter element. plus, they are only like $25.

Thank you for the info
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Old 07-11-2012, 11:36 PM   #2546
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amalgrover
russell competition in-line fuel filter from summit racing is a great product...e-85 safe, high pressure safe, and a washable filter element. plus, they are only like $25.
But it's a huge pore size. Not much better than the fuel sock on the pump. Look at the Golan filter.
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Old 07-11-2012, 11:39 PM   #2547
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The Russell is 40 micron and the Golan is 10 microns.
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Old 07-11-2012, 11:50 PM   #2548
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I just put in a Golan as I liked the removable fittings that allowed me to do 5/16" barb on one end and -6AN on the other.

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Old 07-11-2012, 11:59 PM   #2549
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stock subaru filter sock is only about 100 microns...so 40 microns is MUCH better filtration than that. obviously, 10 microns is going to filter much smaller particles than a 40 micron filter, but realistically, a 40 micron filter is going to filter more than 1.5x what the stock one is capable of so...probably more than enough, especially if you consider the fact that the filter sock is going to filter very large particles, then the fuel hits the inline filter, and then it is going to hit the 10 micron (approx) filter in the injectors.

Last edited by amalgrover; 07-12-2012 at 12:04 AM.
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Old 07-12-2012, 12:05 AM   #2550
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I just put in a Golan as I liked the removable fittings that allowed me to do 5/16" barb on one end and -6AN on the other.

that is a pretty cool feature
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