Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Monday September 22, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Engine Management & Tuning

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-14-2013, 11:50 AM   #2676
mbtoloczko
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 36625
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Pacific Northwest
Vehicle:
2006 Evolution 9
425 ft-lbs / 505 whp

Default

the idea is that the richer afr obtained by going from e85 to e70 will offset the slightly less stable burn characteristics of e70 and allow running pretty much the same tune provided that the ltft's, which will shift in response to running e70, do not affect open loop fuelling.

my limited experience at moderate boost levels (30 tapering to 25 psi) is that i can run the same tune for anything between e70 and e85 (in an evo).
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
mbtoloczko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2013, 08:24 PM   #2677
singhdrew an
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 335296
Join Date: Oct 2012
Default

Can anyone here give me some insight to this. Going to throw in a 20GXTR on E85/built motor. I have ID1000s and a DW65C, hardwired now on the stock turbo with E85. Would I be better off with a DW300?
singhdrew an is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2013, 11:24 PM   #2678
yamahaSHO
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 73932
Join Date: Nov 2004
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Nebraska
Vehicle:
2005 STi - E85 20G'd
2004 S2000 - E85

Default

I would go with a 400/450 lph pump hardwired. On a 20G/TD05/8cm, I was getting near 100% IDC with a DW300 at 21ish PSI and a base pressure of 50 PSI (ID1000's). I put in the 400/450 and added a couple more PSI of boost and my IDC's were in the low/mid 80's (base pressure still at 50 PSI).
yamahaSHO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2013, 11:54 PM   #2679
davidsti1
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 210923
Join Date: May 2009
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: colombia miami israel
Vehicle:
2001 RSTI Flared
376whp GT3076R on E85

Default

2 questions

1: can I hardwire bypassing my FPC and run %100 DC? With a relay and switch?
2: now that I'm running E85 what do I do when I store
My car for more then 2 months?

I did the search but not too helpful :/
Thanks
davidsti1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2013, 01:00 AM   #2680
yamahaSHO
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 73932
Join Date: Nov 2004
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Nebraska
Vehicle:
2005 STi - E85 20G'd
2004 S2000 - E85

Default

1: A relay will keep the pump running 100%. I've had a relay that didn't like the varying voltage from the controller and would drop the power to the pump when coming back down to 33%. I used ATR to command 100% fuel pump duty cycle all the time and my problem was fixed.

2: Nothing. I store my 2 E85 cars for 6 months a year. If your system is well sealed, it will be fine. I don't do anything special. Both my cars have a 3/4 tank of E85 in them now. I do drive the car normally until the old ethanol is burned up and I get a fresh tank in.
yamahaSHO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2013, 01:07 AM   #2681
davidsti1
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 210923
Join Date: May 2009
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: colombia miami israel
Vehicle:
2001 RSTI Flared
376whp GT3076R on E85

Default

Atr....?
davidsti1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2013, 01:08 AM   #2682
yamahaSHO
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 73932
Join Date: Nov 2004
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Nebraska
Vehicle:
2005 STi - E85 20G'd
2004 S2000 - E85

Default

AccessTuner Race
yamahaSHO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2013, 01:15 AM   #2683
davidsti1
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 210923
Join Date: May 2009
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: colombia miami israel
Vehicle:
2001 RSTI Flared
376whp GT3076R on E85

Default

So I can do the independent relay with switch
And just let my ecu knows I'm running %100
I'm a noob when it comes to this issue thank you kind sir!
davidsti1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2013, 11:03 AM   #2684
manitou
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 193757
Join Date: Nov 2008
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Cedar, MI HP Techs MPS-SSLR2.5
Vehicle:
2006 XTI Limited
OBP, Junior tuned 573WHP

Default

Here is the simplest hard wire of the fuel pump. You can use 10 or 12 gauge wire from the battery back to the fuel pump. It can get more involved based on what you're doing between the battery and fuel pump but it can be very simple as stated below. After this wiring change you'll be at battery voltage of 13.9-14 volts when the car is running.

1. power wire from battery (in-line 30 amp fuse, close to battery) to relay terminal 30.
2. ground wire from relay terminal 86 to seat belt bolt (chassis).
3. power wire from relay terminal 85 to FPC for trigger. (this is the other end of the wire you cut #4 below)
4. power wire from relay terminal 87 to fuel pump wire. (this wire came from the FPC #3 but now comes from the new 40 amp relay)
5. Cut ground wire from pump to FPC and run pump ground wire to seat belt bolt, common ground! Cap off the cut ground wire to FPC, it's not used.

You can use a SPST, single pole single throw (4 terminals) relay or a SPDT, single pole double throw (5 terminals) relay but you are only going to use the single throw (4 terminals/ wires). With a STDP relay you will not use terminal 87a. They both work equally as well!




You can use a SPST, single pole single throw (4 terminals) relay or a SPDT, single pole double throw (5 terminals) relay but you are only going to use the single throw (4 terminals/ wires). With a STDP relay you will not use terminal 87a. They both work equally as well!
This wiring will run the fuel pump 100% of the time the ignition is on. You'll use the FPC to trigger (#3 above) the relay when the ignition is turned on.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I think that the rollover shut off is retained through the oem FPC trigger of the new relay.

You need to turn off the code that will trip with this hardwire when you bypass the FPC and fuel pump duties 33, 66, 100%. P0230, Fuel pump circuit malfunction.

FYI, I used 10 gauge wire and ran a ground wire along with the power wire back to the fuel pump area. I ran the ground to dedicated ground point and tied all of my fueling grounds to that point.

Last edited by manitou; 12-15-2013 at 11:54 AM.
manitou is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2013, 11:45 AM   #2685
the suicidal eggroll
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 51961
Join Date: Jan 2004
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Broomfield, CO
Vehicle:
2005 STi
2012 WRX

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by manitou View Post
Here is the simplest hard wire of the fuel pump. You can use 10 or 12 gauge wire from the battery back to the fuel pump. It can get more involved based on what you're doing between the battery and fuel pump but it can be very simple as stated below. After this wiring change you'll be at battery voltage of 13.9-14 volts when the car is running.

1. power wire from battery (in-line 30 amp fuse, close to battery) to relay terminal 30.
2. ground wire from relay terminal 86 to seat belt bolt (chassis).
3. power wire from relay terminal 85 to FPC for trigger. (this is the other end of the wire you cut #4 below)
4. power wire from relay terminal 87 to fuel pump wire. (this wire came from the FPC #3 but now comes from the new 40 amp relay)

You can use a SPST, single pole single throw (4 terminals) relay or a SPDT, single pole double throw (5 terminals) relay but you are only going to use the single throw (4 terminals/ wires). With a STDP relay you will not use terminal 87a. They both work equally as well!
This wiring will run the fuel pump 100% of the time the ignition is on. You'll use the FPC to trigger (#3 above) the relay when the ignition is turned on.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I think that the rollover shut off is retained through the oem FPC trigger of the new relay.

You need to turn off the code that will trip with this hardwire when you bypass the FPC and fuel pump duties 33, 66, 100%. P0230, Fuel pump circuit malfunction.

FYI, I used 10 gauge wire and ran a ground wire along with the power wire back to the fuel pump area. I ran the ground to dedicated ground point and tied all of my fueling grounds to that point.
I'm pretty sure that won't work like you think. In fact, I think all it's going to do is replace the FPC 12v with battery 12v, which will raise the voltage at the pump ever so slightly. It won't get rid of the duty cycling, since the FPC duty cycles the pump by switching the ground, which you're still using. If you want to completely bypass the FPC and truly run 100% DC then you should hard ground the pump to the chassis and use the power input to the FPC to switch the relay.

Last edited by the suicidal eggroll; 12-15-2013 at 11:55 AM.
the suicidal eggroll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2013, 11:50 AM   #2686
manitou
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 193757
Join Date: Nov 2008
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Cedar, MI HP Techs MPS-SSLR2.5
Vehicle:
2006 XTI Limited
OBP, Junior tuned 573WHP

Default

Nope, I just forgot step #5.

5. Cut ground wire from pump to FPC and run pump ground wire to seat belt bolt, common ground!

Fixed my post above and added relay drawings!

Better now?

Last edited by manitou; 12-15-2013 at 11:55 AM.
manitou is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2013, 11:55 AM   #2687
the suicidal eggroll
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 51961
Join Date: Jan 2004
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Broomfield, CO
Vehicle:
2005 STi
2012 WRX

Default

That works then.
the suicidal eggroll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2013, 11:57 AM   #2688
manitou
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 193757
Join Date: Nov 2008
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Cedar, MI HP Techs MPS-SSLR2.5
Vehicle:
2006 XTI Limited
OBP, Junior tuned 573WHP

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by the suicidal eggroll View Post
That works then.
Good catch! Thanks for proofing, want to be helpful but don't want to mislead peeps!
manitou is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2013, 03:17 PM   #2689
Asharus
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 276300
Join Date: Mar 2011
Vehicle:
2011 WRX Ltd 5DR SWP
349awhp/366tq @19psi E85

Default

just wanna double check before i get tuned next month at the dead of winter once i install injectors/fuel pump.

from what ive researched, it's better to tune for e85 in the summer using a summer blend, so when you end up with spring/fall and winter blends, the engine runs slightly rich instead of slightly lean.

if you tune for pump gas in the winter, when the weather warms up, that tune runs slightly rich and you lose some power in the summer months, but it's safer.

are both my assumptions correct? thanks.
Asharus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2013, 03:30 PM   #2690
06rexwagon
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 114730
Join Date: May 2006
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Vehicle:
2006 WRX Limited Wag
9.9@142

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asharus View Post
just wanna double check before i get tuned next month at the dead of winter once i install injectors/fuel pump.

from what ive researched, it's better to tune for e85 in the summer using a summer blend, so when you end up with spring/fall and winter blends, the engine runs slightly rich instead of slightly lean.

if you tune for pump gas in the winter, when the weather warms up, that tune runs slightly rich and you lose some power in the summer months, but it's safer.

are both my assumptions correct? thanks.
Summer blend has more ethanol, so it leans the car out. I'd rather tune on summer blend, then in the winter it ends up running a little richer, which is safer. If you tune on winter blend, have the tuner keep the AFR slightly rich so that when the summer blend comes in you won't be too lean.
06rexwagon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2013, 04:20 PM   #2691
Asharus
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 276300
Join Date: Mar 2011
Vehicle:
2011 WRX Ltd 5DR SWP
349awhp/366tq @19psi E85

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 06rexwagon View Post
Summer blend has more ethanol, so it leans the car out. I'd rather tune on summer blend, then in the winter it ends up running a little richer, which is safer. If you tune on winter blend, have the tuner keep the AFR slightly rich so that when the summer blend comes in you won't be too lean.
thanks those are my plans as well. get a pump tune now and tune for e85 later.
Asharus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2013, 06:08 PM   #2692
BlueToRed
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 362319
Join Date: Jul 2013
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Drifting in Snow Near You
Vehicle:
2008 Subaru WRX
WRB Stage 2+ & WRB 13 STI

Default

sorry ill pass on the corn gasoline im not broke
BlueToRed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2013, 06:31 PM   #2693
manitou
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 193757
Join Date: Nov 2008
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Cedar, MI HP Techs MPS-SSLR2.5
Vehicle:
2006 XTI Limited
OBP, Junior tuned 573WHP

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueToRed View Post
sorry ill pass on the corn gasoline im not broke
Why is it because you don't have any near you or do you live in the arctic circle and drive your car in the winter?

What are you doing trolling here on the E85 thread if you don't like it and are not going to run it in your car?
manitou is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2013, 08:02 PM   #2694
Andrewxxcarlson
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 316415
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Elk Grove, CA
Vehicle:
2006 WRX
WRB

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueToRed View Post
sorry ill pass on the corn gasoline im not broke
"Itsa jersey thing"

...
Andrewxxcarlson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2013, 10:18 PM   #2695
yamahaSHO
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 73932
Join Date: Nov 2004
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Nebraska
Vehicle:
2005 STi - E85 20G'd
2004 S2000 - E85

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueToRed View Post
sorry ill pass on the corn gasoline im not broke
Broke? It would have been much cheaper for me to stay on gasoline...
yamahaSHO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2013, 07:54 AM   #2696
ride5000
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 32792
Join Date: Feb 2003
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: lincoln, ri
Vehicle:
2003 GGA MBP
12.9 / 105+

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueToRed View Post
sorry ill pass on the corn gasoline im not broke
idiot
ride5000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2013, 08:58 AM   #2697
BeastianSTI
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 310506
Join Date: Feb 2012
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Florida
Vehicle:
2005 WRX STi
Silver, Sexy 'n Raspy

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueToRed View Post
sorry ill pass on the corn gasoline im not broke
And we'll pass on you with maze coming from the exhaust and urthang.
BeastianSTI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2013, 09:13 AM   #2698
Zulu-
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 232213
Join Date: Dec 2009
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Asheville, NC
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueToRed View Post
sorry ill pass on the corn gasoline im not broke
It's more expensive than premium you pretentious dumb ****.
Zulu- is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2013, 09:18 AM   #2699
Asharus
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 276300
Join Date: Mar 2011
Vehicle:
2011 WRX Ltd 5DR SWP
349awhp/366tq @19psi E85

Default

what kind of MPG are you guys getting on E85 anyway. just wanna know what to expect when i get tuned for it in the summer. i drive 100 miles a day and i wanna know if im gonna be at the gas station every day
Asharus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2013, 10:21 AM   #2700
WRXt4cy
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 172698
Join Date: Feb 2008
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Des Moines, IA
Vehicle:
11 STi BW 8374 E85
02 v8 Spec C E85

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asharus View Post
what kind of MPG are you guys getting on E85 anyway. just wanna know what to expect when i get tuned for it in the summer. i drive 100 miles a day and i wanna know if im gonna be at the gas station every day
There are a lot of factors, but I usually see a drop of about 3 - 4 mpg depending on your cruising speed. I can get 18-19 if I cruise at 65-70 mph but it drops to 16-17 if I cruise at 75-80 mph.

I average ~200 miles until the gas light comes on with city driving and can stretch out to ~240 miles with all highway driving @ 70 - 75 mph.

So yeah, you'll be filling up about every day vs twice every three days that I assume you probably fill up now. If your price spread on E85 vs Premium is decent, you should at least break even on fuel costs. If its a higher spread like some areas, you might even save a few bucks.
WRXt4cy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What do you need to do to use E85 fuel? wantsti Rocky Mountains Impreza Club Forum -- RMIC 37 02-20-2014 01:27 AM
E85 fueling question- 850cc + fpgreen...adjustable FPR? Blown95ImpalaSS Factory 2.5L Turbo Powertrain 5 09-29-2009 07:37 PM
E85-Fueled Z06, 30th Anniversary Corvettes to Pace 08 Indy 500 AVANTI R5 Non-Subaru News & Rumors 0 12-27-2007 01:56 PM
E85 fuel available now in Arvada 9/22/06 hotrod Rocky Mountains Impreza Club Forum -- RMIC 9 09-25-2006 02:29 PM
E85 Fuel in Austin? When? dromango Texas Impreza Club Forum -- TXIC 8 06-29-2006 01:32 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:48 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.