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Old 03-23-2006, 02:22 PM   #276
PHATsuby
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yea blends would be difficult, i was thinking in terms of 100% e85 only just because i would be tuning the car, obviously someone on stock components can't do that as easily. Plus i would want a somewhat documented stoich ratio to target, so that if i did see 8.7:1 that is accurate and cause concern, as it should!

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Old 03-23-2006, 06:24 PM   #277
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the ratios for blends were expressed on like the 2nd or 3rd page. Pretty much the average of the 2.

EDIT: Nvm, that was octane rating..
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Old 03-24-2006, 09:08 AM   #278
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dontek--you didn't hurt your car, did you?
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Old 03-24-2006, 11:17 AM   #279
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All reading and sayings aside, did you do it? I did with 100% E85!
Any reading on my TurboXS Turner Pro below 10:1 afr results in a loss of power and stuttering as you go lower, acting like the AFR is way too rich. Keeping my AFR exactly the same as using good old 93 octane gas keeps the car running perfect with a gain of 40hp. Is the Tuner Pro adjusting it's Lambada to AFR for E85? Hell if I know.
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Old 03-24-2006, 11:56 AM   #280
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatray
All reading and sayings aside, did you do it? I did with 100% E85!
Any reading on my TurboXS Turner Pro below 10:1 afr results in a loss of power and stuttering as you go lower, acting like the AFR is way too rich. Keeping my AFR exactly the same as using good old 93 octane gas keeps the car running perfect with a gain of 40hp. Is the Tuner Pro adjusting it's Lambada to AFR for E85? Hell if I know.
this is exactly what i was explaining to todd, besides a few different scenarios where you would want to tune it possibly a bit leaner on e85, if you have a good fuel curve for regular gas(in terms of lambda) you will basically be good.

the tuner is not showing you AFR for e85, you have to tell it what stoich is, it cannot know on its own.

Ben
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Old 03-24-2006, 12:38 PM   #281
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PHATsuby
the tuner is not showing you AFR for e85, you have to tell it what stoich is, it cannot know on its own.

Ben
If I have 100% E85 in the tank and E85 exhaust gasses are flowing through the o2 meter, then the only possible reading I would be getting is the AFR of E85. If my meter is not reading what is flowing through it then what on earth is it reading?
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Old 03-24-2006, 01:01 PM   #282
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatray
If I have 100% E85 in the tank and E85 exhaust gasses are flowing through the o2 meter, then the only possible reading I would be getting is the AFR of E85. If my meter is not reading what is flowing through it then what on earth is it reading?
think about this, how is your 02 sensor supposed to know what is considered stoichiometric? It can't, it can only know that the mixture is stoich if lambda is 1.0(complete combustion) not what the ratio actually is.

so, unless the TXS tuner has a way to know the specific density of the fuel you are using and know its e85, it can't know the actual stoich AFR. the tuner is going to come to you preprogrammed for lambda 1.0=14.7:1 AFR, you would have to tell it that lambda 1.0=9.76:1 AFR for it to read the actual AFR.

if you hit 10:1 you are actually hitting 6.63:1 for e85 AFR, which is much richer than even what is recommended for max power in a rich reading hence the reason you get problems(most likely).

get it?

Ben
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Old 03-28-2006, 12:24 AM   #283
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PHATsuby

get it?

Ben
Got it!
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Old 03-28-2006, 06:46 AM   #284
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatray
Got it!
was there a problem with the way i described it? you seem offended for some reason.

Ben
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Old 03-28-2006, 11:12 AM   #285
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No, it's good. I'm good! Car good! I did quit using E85 since it's so much more then premium unleaded now. Now I'm only going to use it when I feel spunky. I can't wait untill theres more then 2 gas stations in MD.
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Old 03-29-2006, 10:23 PM   #286
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Last edited by trininox; 07-17-2007 at 08:36 PM.
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Old 03-30-2006, 01:43 AM   #287
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Quote:
Anyone know why E85 would be the same price as regular now, when a month or two ago it was like 10-20 cents cheaper... I hope its not just a change in the 1 station I have access too!
There is a pinch in supply of ethanol at the moment due to several issues. MTBE will be phased out by the end of April and refiners are stocking up on ethanol to replace the MTBE. Due to higher oil costs some refiners are using ethanol to stretch gasoline inventories, plus all the public interest in E85. Add to this a bit of financial market paranoia pushing futures prices up. Many suppliers buy their ethanol on the open market rather than having a contract for a fixed cost so all these push up the cost of fuel.

You also have the seasonal peak in ethanol demand due to Major metropolitian areas that need to run oxygenated fuels during the winter months (roughly Nov 1 - April 1)

Europe and other countries are also beginning to buy up ethanol on the world market to try to help them meet their Kyoto agreement limits, which also takes some of the off shore ethanol out of the system.

The price peak should last for a few months, until some of the new ethanol plants come on line.

In February, Ethanol was selling at the refinery (Nebraska) at $2.52/gal while gasoline was selling for $1.67. Knock off the excise tax credit of 41 c/gallon on the ethanol and that puts ethanol at $2.11/gallon

Larry
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Old 03-30-2006, 05:17 PM   #288
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lol, wth 1.67 for gas? I haven't seen prices like that for at least 2 years, lucky you. I should see if E85 is cheaper in the MN area with more supply stations around.

Ben
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Old 03-30-2006, 05:57 PM   #289
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Quote:
lol, wth 1.67 for gas? I haven't seen prices like that for at least 2 years, lucky you.
That is wholesale price at the refinery prior to markups and local taxes.

Larry
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Old 04-20-2006, 03:01 PM   #290
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotrod
There is a pinch in supply of ethanol at the moment due to several issues. MTBE will be phased out by the end of April and refiners are stocking up on ethanol to replace the MTBE. Due to higher oil costs some refiners are using ethanol to stretch gasoline inventories, plus all the public interest in E85. Add to this a bit of financial market paranoia pushing futures prices up. Many suppliers buy their ethanol on the open market rather than having a contract for a fixed cost so all these push up the cost of fuel.

You also have the seasonal peak in ethanol demand due to Major metropolitian areas that need to run oxygenated fuels during the winter months (roughly Nov 1 - April 1)

Europe and other countries are also beginning to buy up ethanol on the world market to try to help them meet their Kyoto agreement limits, which also takes some of the off shore ethanol out of the system.

The price peak should last for a few months, until some of the new ethanol plants come on line.

In February, Ethanol was selling at the refinery (Nebraska) at $2.52/gal while gasoline was selling for $1.67. Knock off the excise tax credit of 41 c/gallon on the ethanol and that puts ethanol at $2.11/gallon

Larry
Inj My small town we have one factory that makes ethanol SEKAB and one pilot factoty x-tracting etnaol from same stuff you make papper of.
My company are part owner in it and 1 more factory is built soon to meet the deamns of the ethanol.

In Sweden it's required o blend in 5% ethanol in normal gas, and now allmost every larger town has a E85 pump
My copmany mostly only run the cars(FFV ones)on E85.
Starting in winter without engine heater is quite impossible as temps go bellow -5 deg C.

For some reason will try to use E85 in medium powerd(+650BHP) 95 STI-RA and se how it goes

/Jan
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Old 04-20-2006, 03:52 PM   #291
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650 HP is medium powered? I'd love to see what you think is high powered!!
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Old 04-21-2006, 02:48 AM   #292
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, 8's Car

/Jan
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Old 04-21-2006, 10:58 AM   #293
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I believe this is the first set of posts by guys from sweden. How are you doing with this fuel over there? Is it still in the "experimental" stage with people messing around with it?
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Old 04-21-2006, 05:53 PM   #294
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I just put some E85 in my tank... It was $2.61/gallon, whereas premium was $3.11/gallon! I expected it to be no more than $.30 cheaper than 93, because that's what it was last year. But a whole $.50? I was ecstatic! And people are saying the price of E85 will go down even more?
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Old 04-21-2006, 05:58 PM   #295
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MPG does go down though so that cuts into the savings somewhat.
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Old 04-21-2006, 06:03 PM   #296
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I am aware of that... But with how much I drive, and the increased price difference between the two fuels, it actually close to evening out. The monthly difference was $12, but at this price it's closer to $6. A small price to pay for the performance improvement.
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Old 04-21-2006, 08:12 PM   #297
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still waiting for my chance at e85. whoever knew someone in FL, whats the update on getting e85 here (particularly central)?
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Old 04-24-2006, 06:09 AM   #298
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Quote:
still waiting for my chance at e85. whoever knew someone in FL, whats the update on getting e85 here (particularly central)?
Arizona just recently signed legislation to allow E85 in the Phoenix area, and I understand that the same sort of legislation is working its way through Florida's legislative process. There is a very strong push to make E85 50 state legal which is still not the case due to some old laws on the books.

The facilities below are open or will be coming soon
Hurlburt Field
Building 90043
Hurlburt Field, FL 32544
850-884-7374
View Map
Private facility. No public access.

Kennedy Space Center
3rd St & Ave C
Kennedy Space Center, FL 32815
321-724-0641
View Map
Private facility. No public access.


http://www.e85fuel.com/news/041406_a...deafa4cf0d91fe

http://www.e85fuel.com/news/081704_fl_nm_opening.htm

http://www.florida-agriculture.com/farmtofuel.htm

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2006...a_prepari.html

Texas is another state that needs to get E85 outlets online.

http://southflorida.bizjournals.com/...10/story8.html

Future outlook
Although San Antonio is currently the only location in Texas with E85 fuel available, it will soon be joined by other cities. The National Ethanol Vehicle Coalition (NEVC) recently announced that, starting next month, Cincinnati-based grocery-store chain Kroger Co. will begin rolling out the fuel at 18 of its fueling stations in Houston and Dallas.

http://www.clean-cities.org/pdf/path.pdf

Larry

Last edited by hotrod; 04-24-2006 at 06:21 AM.
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Old 04-24-2006, 12:44 PM   #299
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If Kroger is rolling it out there....they should have it at our own King Soopers up here in the Front Range
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Old 04-24-2006, 01:17 PM   #300
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the two you listed for FL are already open and running, just not available to the public.
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