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Old 09-26-2007, 04:10 PM   #1276
hotrod
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Quote:
Hotrod, might wanna add those to the first pages of this thread.
Good Idea - done (not that anyone actually reads the first 3 pages ------ )

Larry
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Old 09-26-2007, 04:25 PM   #1277
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Quote:
Originally Posted by red5001 View Post
I don't have an exact source but he has been working with suppliers and I believe he is presenting a paper to SAE on the subject in a month. Once he presents the paper I may be able to get some more info and or a copy.

http://www.sae.org/technical/papers/2007-01-4072
Given that all the authors of that paper are from Delphi, I'm hoping the paper shows up at http://delphi.com/news/techpapers/ shortly after it's presented.
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Old 09-26-2007, 11:00 PM   #1278
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Is that paper going to ever be available to the public such as ourselves at no cost?
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Old 09-27-2007, 01:26 PM   #1279
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Is that paper going to ever be available to the public such as ourselves at no cost?
i doubt it. You need to be a member of SAE to get access to their articles and magazines. If you let me know when it comes out I can do the same thing I did a few pages back and post it on here for you guys to read. Im a member, so I can get access to it.
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Old 09-29-2007, 01:35 PM   #1280
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Shoeboxrich:

Will you ( walbro) make a 255l\h fuel pump that are e85 safe anytime soon, or is this a thing that is going to take a long time?
i know you are working on finding out why some of the walbro`s stop working.
but as you wrote in one of the first posts: walbro has built many pumps for e100 and e85 ( brasil cars) you know what needs to be done to make them work with e85?

i am going to buy new pump(s) now for a 600hp 2L turbo engine that is going to use e85.

so my option are two 255l`h walbro`s or one large SX fuel pump (18207) with are fuel pump conroller.. ( it would be alot cheaper to use 2 walbros)
( the car needs to be done in about 4months..)
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Old 09-29-2007, 01:38 PM   #1281
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Old 09-30-2007, 12:20 PM   #1282
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I've been running a Walbro 255 in my FXT set up for E85 since May and haven't yet had any issues with the fuel pump or any other components. I've run nothing but E85 since my ProTune, less two tanks of 91.
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Old 10-01-2007, 03:13 PM   #1283
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Originally Posted by Fuquad View Post
I've been running a Walbro 255 in my FXT set up for E85 since May and haven't yet had any issues with the fuel pump or any other components. I've run nothing but E85 since my ProTune, less two tanks of 91.
It's funny how many times stuff like this needs repeated. There are 100's of cars out there running E85 (that did not come from the factory that way) and they seem to function just fine.

Last time I was at Bandimere, we had 5 or 6 cars that have been running E85 all summer or longer with standard parts, other than larer injectors than they would have needed on gas.

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Old 10-01-2007, 03:21 PM   #1284
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Originally Posted by Turbopit View Post
There are 100's of cars out there running E85 (that did not come from the factory that way) and they seem to function just fine.
Just a note. A few months of running fine isn't all that long and probably not to unexpected since it is a small amout of time. Considering OEMs design for the life of the car or X amount of hours(miles). So it may be something when they are fine for that X amount of hours (miles)
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Old 10-02-2007, 07:56 AM   #1285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aml15 View Post
Shoeboxrich:

Will you ( walbro) make a 255l\h fuel pump that are e85 safe anytime soon, or is this a thing that is going to take a long time?
i know you are working on finding out why some of the walbro`s stop working.
but as you wrote in one of the first posts: walbro has built many pumps for e100 and e85 ( brasil cars) you know what needs to be done to make them work with e85?

i am going to buy new pump(s) now for a 600hp 2L turbo engine that is going to use e85.

so my option are two 255l`h walbro`s or one large SX fuel pump (18207) with are fuel pump conroller.. ( it would be alot cheaper to use 2 walbros)
( the car needs to be done in about 4months..)
The short answer to your question is no we won't be offering an E85 version of our hegh performance pumps anytime soon. I'd like to think that we will sometime in 2008 though. There is just too many unknowns at this time to move more quickly.
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Old 10-02-2007, 12:04 PM   #1286
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Quote:
Originally Posted by red5001 View Post
Just a note. A few months of running fine isn't all that long and probably not to unexpected since it is a small amout of time. Considering OEMs design for the life of the car or X amount of hours(miles). So it may be something when they are fine for that X amount of hours (miles)
True.
One Ranger has been running it daily for at least a year. Manufactures have been gearing up for this stuff since at least the 80's.

We've also used a LOT of methanol without much problem as well, but not in a daily driver.
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Old 10-03-2007, 11:25 AM   #1287
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Ok, I finally started using a little e85 in my wrx last night. Hope to switch to 100% soon but al time money right now is going to fianlly assembling another car I've been working on for a long time.


06 WRX-TR bought last october with 69 miles on it, now has 30,000. Put in 4 gallons of e85 then topped off with 91. The car is complete stock. (other than stereo)

I'll have to read this thread again, but I am thinking since I haven't done any mods to it yet, I could probably get away running 100% E85 with the stock pump and injectors. Along with some tweaks using opensource software. Fuel pumps are cheap though and I don't know what modded injectors cost. I'm a Ford turbo guy, this is my first Subie and is suppose to just be a daily driver. it will end up with some mods though I am sure. haha

Drove the couple of miles home and then drove the 40ish miles to work this morning.
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Old 10-03-2007, 11:24 PM   #1288
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Stick to the 30% rule! You're injectors are still too small. Turn down the boost to about 8-10psi if you want to play with full E85. You have too much boost and too small an injector to go full E85 just yet. The reflash software will help if you know what to do with it.
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Old 10-05-2007, 11:10 AM   #1289
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I guess I was assuming that since the 06 WRX got the larger factory injectors, I might be ok. i would probably go larger anyway, just to be ready for some other mods.

thanks


Looks like there are more stations selling e85 is colorado Springs now. They aren't list yet on the e85 sites but from what I hear all the Western brand stores are going to have e85. Now I have at east one e85 station in the springs on my way to/from work and one in castle Rock on my way to/from work. Both right on the route I take.
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Old 10-10-2007, 10:50 AM   #1290
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I run 100% E85 and have been for almost 2 years. Does anyone know if there is any kind of schedule for the winter mix? This is where they change it from 85% to 70% for better winter starting. (in the northern states) I thought I noticed a change already, but 1(me) isn't a very good sample size. I have filled up from 3 different stations and it all seem to be consistant, but a little more rich. My fuel system is not stock except for the hardlines, so I guess something could have changed. One other thing I noticed recently is with my aeromotive FPR. Before when I shut off the car the fuel pressure would stay at the same rate for at least a minute bfore it would start to fall off, now when I shut off the car it only takes about 10 seconds before the gauge goes to zero. The regulator still works the same though, all the way from vacuum to boost.

Steve
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Old 10-10-2007, 01:54 PM   #1291
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Sounds like you have a fuel leak.
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Old 10-10-2007, 07:37 PM   #1292
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The recommended dates for changing E85 fuel blends are listed in a chart in the E85 handbook on page 22, which is in the "E85 Fuel Specification" tab.
The Volatility class specifications are broken down on page 10.

Volatility class 1 --- minimum ethanol 79%
Volatility class 2 --- minimum ethanol 74%
Volatility class 3 --- minimum ethanol 70%


http://www.e85fuel.com/pdf/ethanol_guidebook.pdf

As you can see each region has a different start date and recommendation for seasonal blends depending on local weather climate.

Here on the high plains east of the rockies in Colorado we run the class 1 fuel blend from mid June -- mid Sept, run class 2 fuel from mid Sept -- mid Oct and run the class 3 fuel blend from Mid Oct -- mid April, then back to the class 2 blend from mid April to mid June. In short here in Colorado near Denver we are already on the winter blend, but there is latitude in the standard, so the standard only specifies a minimum ethanol content. If it is cheaper for the fuel blender to add more he can. Ethanol content is bottom line driven by local weather conditions, and cold starting problems for local drivers just a gasoline blends are modified to give easier starting in cold weather.

In the Southern part of Texas they would never go to a class 3 blend, and in Wisconsin, they would only have the class 1 blend for about 2 months in the summer. In Florida they would be on class 1 almost all year long and in North Dakota and Wyoming and Montana, they would be on class 3 almost all year long.

Larry
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Old 10-21-2007, 09:05 PM   #1293
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I've read most of this. Good stuff.

- I'm guessing (aftermarket) hard aluminum fuel line is a no-no when plumbing an upgraded fuel system?

- What about -an fittings? 95% of these are aluminum, although I think you can get some in stainless. Are they ok to use since they are anodized?
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Old 10-21-2007, 09:39 PM   #1294
hotrod
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I am runnng -AN fittings, anodized aluminum is nearly as good as stainless steel.

Yes I would avoid the soft aluminum hard line. I considered it on mine and decided to stay with the OEM steel hardline. It is plenty big enough for any sane level of power.


Larry
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Old 10-21-2007, 09:47 PM   #1295
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Yes I would not use aluminum hard line. I considered it on mine and decided to stay with the OEM steel hardline. It is plenty big enough for any sane level of power.
Yeah - i have had a tough time finding the right information on fuel line diameter. There's not much info. on it when dealing with an E85 car. It just seems like big power guys go -6, -8, -10 because those are the standard sizes in the "bigger is better philosophy.

at 500 HP and up on E85, I wouldn't think a larger fuel feed line is a bad idea. Is there any was to prove this with math?
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Old 10-21-2007, 10:46 PM   #1296
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The OEM fuel line is big enough for at least 600 hp.

Eaton has a chart on fluid line sizing for their Aeroquip lines. It shows that you only need the big lines on low pressure systems or systems running under some vacuum. On EFI where fuel line pressure is 43+ psi you can run a significantly smaller dia than on low pressure carburated systems.

The chart is intended for motor oil or hydraulic oil but gasoline has much lower viscosity and flow losses than oil.

See page 406 this doc.
http://www.hydraulicseaton.com.cn/gb...16_394-433.PDF

Max flow for a walbro 342 is 255 l/hr or 67.4 gal per hour = 437.9 lbs / hr or about 700 hp on gasoline, or 560 hp on E85.

The OEM hard line is 8mm which is basically 5/16 inch ID line, which at the 15 ft/sec flow rate approx gives you 13 gal/min. or 780 gallons per hour.
That is WAAAYYY more fuel than you need for 600 hp.


Larry

Last edited by hotrod; 10-21-2007 at 11:30 PM.
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Old 10-22-2007, 01:04 AM   #1297
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^^^ good info. Larry. That info. will save me a lot of time...but mainly $$ - -an lines are BIG MONEY
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Old 10-22-2007, 01:26 AM   #1298
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We're working on an e-85 test kit to test the amount of ethanol in gas that you get from various stations. We will have these for sale shortly. I always see BIG gains from e-85 in the cars I tune.
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Old 10-22-2007, 11:55 AM   #1299
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keep me posted on that test kit. I would like to see one that I could mount in the fuel line and read so i know which map to run when switching between gas and e85 or combos there of.
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Old 10-22-2007, 01:06 PM   #1300
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Unfortunately it wont be nearly that cool or that portable at the moment. It requires a few pieces of common lab equipment. But if you can bake cookies you can do the test.
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