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Old 10-28-2005, 03:28 PM   #151
nathansvt
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for all the TX naysayers ... San Antonio just opened its first E85 station and more are planned to be phased in over the next year. Once I get my StreetTuner figured out I might try the E85. Just have to get my gasoline maps fully debugged first.
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Old 10-28-2005, 09:41 PM   #152
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What would happen if I was tuned for 11.5 afr on gasoline and I poured in e85? Would I actually be lean or would I be rich?

It is a higher octane, but it burns faster so what is the final conclusion?
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Old 11-01-2005, 05:41 AM   #153
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Quote:
What would happen if I was tuned for 11.5 afr on gasoline and I poured in e85?
That is exactly how my car was tuned when I first started experimenting, you should be good up to about 50% E85 based on my experience.

The mixture would be a bit lean at WOT but for me it caused no long term problems in the range from 33% - 50%. I never pushed the envelope beyond that because I did not have the means to monitor the Fuel Air ratio.

Larry
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Old 11-01-2005, 06:20 AM   #154
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Well I'm sort of a tuning noob...and wasn't really planning on doing anything with E85...but since TX just got an E85 station I gues I should. I have a question though. When I'm looking at the AFRs on a wideband, using E85, what am I looking for? The same AFR's with gas? What should the AFR's look like?
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Old 11-01-2005, 09:47 AM   #155
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When I'm looking at the AFRs on a wideband, using E85, what am I looking for? The same AFR's with gas? What should the AFR's look like?
That's all explained in the first couple posts of this FAQ. You want to us Lambda if it is an option on your system, as it is not affected by differing fuels. Or if your system only gives AFR's based on gasoline you need to do a little math to convert.

Larry
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Old 11-01-2005, 06:30 PM   #156
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Ok I'll go re read it....I'm getting a UTEC and WB O2 for xmas, what do you recommend as far as a wideband?
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Old 11-01-2005, 07:19 PM   #157
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I think Cobb should make a Stage 1 E85 Map for the AP. They should pick either STi Pinks or modded WRX Injectors. That way all you'd need to convert to E-85 on a stock wrx is injectors and an Accessport. And anytime you had to run regular 91 octane you could use one of the Realtime maps.

Not to mention the extra gain in power just from using E85...


What do you guys think?
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Old 11-02-2005, 01:52 AM   #158
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Unnecessary. A new map would take advantage of the fuel's capabilities. However, just to run it you only need to up your fuel delivery. Larry and I did it with the latter. I do want to see someone make an E85 specific map, though. A Link, SDS, UTEC, or even the new Autronics setup would be sweet .
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Old 11-02-2005, 02:49 AM   #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HamFist
Unnecessary. A new map would take advantage of the fuel's capabilities. However, just to run it you only need to up your fuel delivery. Larry and I did it with the latter. I do want to see someone make an E85 specific map, though. A Link, SDS, UTEC, or even the new Autronics setup would be sweet .
Well in order to up your fuel delivery don't you need some sort of engine management? Simply putting on a larger pump wouldn't fix it, and larger injectors without engine management seems pretty detrimental.

So neither you nor larry are using EM? Or you're not using an E85 calibrated map?
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Old 11-02-2005, 09:24 AM   #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by icantdrive75
Well in order to up your fuel delivery don't you need some sort of engine management? Simply putting on a larger pump wouldn't fix it, and larger injectors without engine management seems pretty detrimental.

So neither you nor larry are using EM? Or you're not using an E85 calibrated map?
the answers to all your questions are in this thread, please read.
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Old 11-02-2005, 11:20 AM   #161
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Thanks cnstman...sometimes I just give up ...
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Old 11-02-2005, 11:26 AM   #162
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awesome thread
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Old 11-04-2005, 07:00 PM   #163
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Just typing out loud. I wanna get some opinions on this.

Tuning for E85 there would be some issues with figuring out the exact percentage of ethanol is in the fuel tank. It seems that there is some variation on how much ethanol is in E85 depending on who did the mixing and even seasonal variations. So to measure the ethanol content, take an ohmmeter and figure out the resistance of the fuel to find out the ethanol percentage(?). Is there are chart for this somewhere or does it also vary depending on the other additives in the fuel(?). And does it really matter. Winter E85 can be as low as 75% ethanol and summer ethanol up to 85%, just tune for summer ethanol and let it run richer in winter?

Then there is the question of emergency splash mixing in non-ethanol fuel. The stock fuel map and injectors should be able to handle up to 40% ethanol without problems. So just stay out of closed loop mode until the tank is again filled with 80% ethanol or revert to a regular fuel map? Probably not relevant because we will already be using larger injectors. So using the E85 map would mean that the more regular fuel we add, the richer the car would run. (not a bad thing?).

Using an Access Port, in closed loop the O2 sensor would adjust for any difference in ethanol content to a point (what is that point?), in open loop it would want to be programmed richer so as to be safer. E85 burns cooler than E10, would there be a soot issue?

This is all assuming larger injectors and large enough fuel pump to supply the injectors. Stock turbo and probably a mostly catless exhaust
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Old 11-05-2005, 09:38 PM   #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Master2192
I think Cobb should make a Stage 1 E85 Map for the AP. They should pick either STi Pinks or modded WRX Injectors. That way all you'd need to convert to E-85 on a stock wrx is injectors and an Accessport. And anytime you had to run regular 91 octane you could use one of the Realtime maps.

Not to mention the extra gain in power just from using E85...


What do you guys think?
I think that's a great idea. It would have to be a special "stage" with larger injectors / fuel pump to handle the richer mix. I would suggest a ethanol friendly fuel pump / stainless steel lines / fuel rail (if necessary).
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Old 11-06-2005, 10:59 PM   #165
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We just got our first E-85 station in Sierra Vista, AZ! Now I get to join in on the fun.
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Old 11-06-2005, 11:40 PM   #166
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I mused a bit on e85forum.com about an "ethanol cruise/rally" of sorts. There doesn't seem to be much interest in one. The owner there suggested a "torch circle" like the olympic torch runs are done. Any thoughts here? There only seems to be a handful of people trying this fuel, anyway. I could leave from Denver, drive to the Subaru plant in Indiana (through Nebraska and Iowa) and circle back. Hopefully, I'd never even have to fill up on gas, or at least be able to stay above 50% ethanol the entire time.
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Old 11-08-2005, 10:10 AM   #167
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Last edited by trininox; 07-17-2007 at 09:45 PM.
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Old 11-12-2005, 07:46 PM   #168
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Another update. This is what a plug looked like after a shade over 5,000 miles on straight E85 all the time. It's winter, so we're down to about E70 now to help cold start conditions. She still drives great with no issues. I'm doing some exterior stuff so the injectors are on hold for just a bit. Sorry for the pic quality, but plugs just don't photograph well. It's not a "lean-burnt white" at all. Those look chalky. This looks more like a very thin film or dusting of white. It would be like reading a slightly different color. I've never seen plugs so clean after 5,000 miles of use.

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Old 11-12-2005, 08:00 PM   #169
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Looks pretty good. How does everything else look (fuel pump, hoses, etc...)?
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Old 11-13-2005, 05:55 PM   #170
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Hoses look fine. No leaks around the O-rings or fuel lines either. Haven't pulled the pump, but there's no behavior indicating a problem with it. Some friends think it stinks like hell, though. To me, gasoline stinks. This smells good!
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Old 11-14-2005, 07:45 AM   #171
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Man, I'm so tempted to start using E85. Do you think going to one step hotter plug would produce more of a complete burn? It was mentioned earlier that this tends to run on the rich side...
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Old 11-14-2005, 12:47 PM   #172
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I would stay with a normal heat range until you get a feel about what your car wants.
E85 requires a richer mixture in terms of AFR but it burns much cleaner so a hotter plug will probably not do much for you as you should not have any fuel fouling issues with E85.

It "might" help a small bit with cold weather start and warm up in your cold winters, but I'm running 1 step cold with no problems all last winter on 100% e85.

Larry

Last edited by hotrod; 11-17-2005 at 10:20 PM.
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Old 11-17-2005, 02:02 PM   #173
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Good news! It's back to $1.99 at our local Conoco!
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Old 11-17-2005, 07:20 PM   #174
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Never mind. I found it.

Last edited by Revision; 11-21-2005 at 10:05 AM.
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Old 11-22-2005, 12:17 PM   #175
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