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Old 07-10-2005, 06:55 AM   #1
ka mano
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 78022
Join Date: Dec 2004
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Seattle, Washington 05 WRB GGA
Vehicle:
PdxT built 2.5L 6sp
30R.82, 274/276, H2O+meth

Default EJ20 18g with 340 hp / 297 tq on race fuel

Really enjoyed a tuning day at PDX today (www.pdxtuning.com). Thanks, Jarrad, for setting this up. Mick and Tim are awesome tuners, as everyone who's ever worked with them knows. They gave me four maps (plus a de-tuned pump backup)... here's the story on the Mustang. I haven't seen the files yet, but Tim told me that without water injection the turbo was pushing ~19 lbs. The peak with water was 22 ending up at 20, with A/F of 11.7.

HP / TQ
301 / 263 ... pump* without WI
314 / 274 ... pump* with WI
324 / 286 ... Torco added with WI
339 / 296 ... 103 octane without WI

*92 octane

I had told them I wasn't after crazy numbers... I just wanted optimal performance from a tune I could really use. Then in the last session as the torque figures started to climb on race -- 294, 296, 297 -- there I was, greedy for three more ft. lbs. "Is there any way we could hit 300?" There wasn't... we finished at 296. Of course, if I plan on seeing 296 very often, I should start "saving up for the tranny," as I was reminded.

Tim and Mick followed with a little spin down the road, the UTEC plugged into their laptop. They each came to similar, though not identical conclusions, calling out to me on their return. Tim told me, "It's fast." Mick: "It's fawst."

They say it's the fastest 2.0L PDX has ever tuned, including their own cars. Mick's predicting a 12.5.

Here's the power set-up. Kudos and thanks for the VE to World One Performance in Seattle (www.worldoneperformance.com): to Alex, who did most of these bolt-ons, and to World One's owner, Garret, who played a major role in the path design of this rex's upgrade. Many thanks to Matrix Integrated (www.matrixintegrated.com), especially Dustin who did a fantastic job on the Aquamist / AVC-R install, giving his all (including some sleep). And special thanks to Richard Lamb of Aquamist (www.aquamist.co.uk) for his technical support and extraordinary interest in this project.

Perrin Shorty intake with K&N filter
Perrin turbo inlet hose
FP18g
APEXi AVC-R
TXS FMIC / BOV
Seibon reverse hood scoop (yes, power)
Aquamist 2d with 30cc accumulator
TXS UTEC
Walbro 342
Perrin modded stock injectors
NGK iridium #7s
Perrin crank pulley
GReddy header
Perrin up
Helix down
GReddy EVO2

Did I mention that Mick and Tim are awesome tuners? Have I got some smooth graphs to show you when I get the files. They're exceptional guys, too, taking time out of their Saturdays -- you know, the typical weekend stuff of autocrossing and building beast-engines -- to help me after Friday's installation ran late. Mick even gave me a part from his home shop when we discovered that it was missing (he has a great dog). But even though they made sacrifices to spend a big part of their day with me, I got the distinct feeling that they'd rather be no where else but there, bringing out the best from what they referred to as "a well sorted out car," and helping a fellow enthusiast enjoy the most from his ride. Thank you, guys.

RACE GAS TUNE... a work of art!
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Last edited by ka mano; 02-12-2006 at 07:35 AM. Reason: finally added the plot; corrected a rounding error
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Old 07-10-2005, 12:06 PM   #2
Striker13
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Member#: 84776
Join Date: Apr 2005
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: PNW
Vehicle:
MY03 Impreza WRX
MBP

Default

Wow, nice write up and nice numbers. Chock another one up for PDXtuning!
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Old 07-10-2005, 12:28 PM   #3
ka mano
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 78022
Join Date: Dec 2004
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Seattle, Washington 05 WRB GGA
Vehicle:
PdxT built 2.5L 6sp
30R.82, 274/276, H2O+meth

Default ...it'll still snap you back in your seat!

The limitations of the WRX stock block / drive train and the 18g / FMIC appear to be evenly matched. Just when you're gonna start breakin heads and stuff, the 18g's got nothin left and is blowin hot air.

I'd go the next step with a 2.5 drop-in, Garret, and 6-speed, but I don't wanna void the warranty.
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Old 07-10-2005, 12:33 PM   #4
Soon2Bgreat
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Member#: 2258
Join Date: Sep 2000
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Irvington, New York, USA
Vehicle:
1999 gc8 ver7 6mt
GT35R 504.7whp;)

Default

I'd imagine you could go faster than 12.5 with the 104 map. I like the WI with torco, torco is good stuff
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Old 07-10-2005, 12:35 PM   #5
subalou1
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Member#: 57966
Join Date: Mar 2004
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: new york
Vehicle:
2002 wrx Sedona Red
11.59@124, best trap 131

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ka mano
I'd go the next step with a 2.5 drop-in, Garret, and 6-speed, but I don't wanna void the warranty.
Warranty, what warranty. Nice numbers, must be fun to drive.
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Old 07-10-2005, 02:00 PM   #6
ka mano
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 78022
Join Date: Dec 2004
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Seattle, Washington 05 WRB GGA
Vehicle:
PdxT built 2.5L 6sp
30R.82, 274/276, H2O+meth

Default ...me, too!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soon2Bgreat
I like the WI with torco, torco is good stuff
That's m'street map.
Quote:
Originally Posted by soubalou
must be fun to drive.
It's got some throttle response!
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Old 07-10-2005, 02:58 PM   #7
PDXTuning
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 49831
Join Date: Dec 2003
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: www.pdxtuning.com
Vehicle:
2008 Get Tuned Now
Knowledge is Power

Default

For those who ask for the details I have included a UTEC log of the final run from each one of the sessions.

Starting with the pump gas (92 octane) tune

Code:
     DATA1

                    Load Knock                     Mod   Mod         Mod   WB 
 RPM   MAP  MAF TPS Site Count  AFR  Ign#1  Inj#1  Ign   Fuel Boost  MAF   AFR
       psia  V   %                    deg   duty   deg    %   (CL)    V  
 1685  -0.4 2.3 104  10    00   W/B  +26.3    6.5 +25.0  -2.0 ECU.   1.9  13.78
 1708  -0.2 2.4 104  10    00   W/B  +26.6    5.8 +25.0  -2.0 ECU.   2.0  14.11
 1705  -0.2 2.3 104  10    00   W/B  +26.6    6.6 +25.0  -2.0 ECU.   2.0  14.11
 1782  +0.0 2.4 103  10    00   W/B  +26.9    6.7 +25.0  -2.0 ECU.   2.0  13.81
 1825  +0.0 2.4 104  10    00   W/B  +26.9    6.7 +25.0  -2.1 ECU.   2.0  13.84
 1862  +0.0 2.4 104  10    00   W/B  +27.3    7.3 +25.0  -2.2 ECU.   2.0  14.37
 1859  +0.2 2.5 104  10    00   W/B  +27.6    7.1 +25.0  -2.2 ECU.   2.0  14.58
 1936  +0.2 2.4 103  10    00   W/B  +28.0    7.5 +25.0  -2.2 ECU.   2.1  14.33
 1977  +0.4 2.4 104  10    00   W/B  +28.3    7.4 +25.0  -2.3 ECU.   2.0  14.11
 2004  +0.6 2.4 104  10    00   W/B  +28.6    7.4 +25.0  -2.4 ECU.   2.0  13.95
 2035  +0.6 2.5 104  10    00   W/B  +28.6    7.5 +25.0  -2.4 ECU.   2.0  13.97
 2058  +0.6 2.4 103  10    00   W/B  +29.3    7.7 +25.0  -2.4 ECU.   2.0  14.11
 2123  +0.6 2.5 103  10    00   W/B  +29.2    7.6 +25.0  -2.4 ECU.   2.1  14.18
 2127  +0.6 2.5 104  10    00   W/B  +29.6    7.9 +25.0  -2.4 ECU.   2.1  14.42
 2182  +0.6 2.5 104  10    00   W/B  +29.5    8.3 +25.0  -2.4 ECU.   2.1  14.74
 2226  +1.1 2.5 104  10    00   W/B  +29.8    8.5 +25.0  -2.4 ECU.   2.1  14.92
 2270  +1.1 2.6 103  10    00   W/B  +30.5    8.6 +25.1  -2.4 ECU.   2.1  14.92
 2306  +1.1 2.6 104  10    00   W/B  +30.7    8.8 +25.2  -2.4 ECU.   2.1  14.74
 2316  +1.3 2.6 104  10    00   W/B  +30.7    9.2 +25.3  -2.4 ECU.   2.1  14.61
 2389  +1.3 2.7 104  10    00   W/B  +31.0    9.4 +25.5  -2.4 ECU.   2.1  14.58
 2418  +1.5 2.7 103  10    00   W/B  +31.4    9.8 +25.6  -2.3 ECU.   2.2  14.58
 2443  +1.7 2.7 104  20    00   W/B  +31.3   10.2 +25.8  -2.3 ECU.   2.1  14.49
 2511  +1.9 2.7 104  10    00   W/B  +31.8   10.2 +26.0  -2.2 ECU.   2.2  14.37
 2548  +1.9 2.7 104  10    00   W/B  +31.6   10.9 +26.0  -2.2 ECU.   2.3  14.18
 2585  +1.9 2.7 103  10    00   W/B  +32.2   11.1 +26.0  -2.1 ECU.   2.3  14.05
 2653  +1.9 2.7 104  20    00   W/B  +32.4   11.2 +26.0  -2.1 ECU.   2.2  14.00
 2696  +2.1 2.8 104  20    00   W/B  +32.8   12.0 +26.0  -2.0 ECU.   2.3  13.87
 2732  +2.1 2.9 104  20    00   W/B  +32.7   12.9 +26.0  -1.8 ECU.   2.4  13.65
 2803  +2.3 2.8 103  20    00   W/B  +32.7   13.9 +26.0  -1.9 ECU.   2.4  13.42
 2846  +2.5 3.0 103  20    00   W/B  +32.8   14.7 +26.0  -1.9 ECU.   2.4  13.12
 2908  +2.7 3.0 104  20    00   W/B  +32.3   16.2 +26.0  -1.8 ECU.   2.4  12.74
 2944  +3.1 3.0 104  20    00   W/B  +32.4   16.8 +26.0  -1.8 ECU.   2.6  12.30
 2997  +3.5 3.1 104  20    00   W/B  +32.3   17.5 +26.0  -1.7 ECU.   2.5  11.93
 3060  +3.7 3.1 104  20    00   W/B  +32.3   17.7 +26.0  -1.7 ECU.   2.6  11.62
 3124  +4.1 3.0 103  30    00   W/B  +32.3   17.3 +25.0  -2.7 ECU.   2.5  11.49
 3186  +4.5 3.1 104  30    00   W/B  +32.3   17.5 +25.0  -2.7 ECU.   2.6  11.58
 3239  +4.9 3.2 104  30    00   W/B  +32.3   18.5 +25.0  -2.7 ECU.   2.6  11.87
 3336  +5.5 3.2 105  30    00   W/B  +32.2   18.9 +25.0  -2.7 ECU.   2.6  12.14
 3370  +5.7 3.3 105  30    00   W/B  +32.2   18.9 +25.0  -2.7 ECU.   2.6  12.17
 3475  +6.2 3.2 104  40    00   W/B  +32.6   19.5 +23.0  -3.4 ECU.   2.6  12.06
 3527  +6.8 3.3 105  40    00   W/B  +32.7   20.0 +23.0  -3.3 ECU.   2.7  12.14
 3584  +7.6 3.5 104  40    00   W/B  +31.8   22.1 +23.0  -3.2 ECU.   2.8  12.34
 3671  +8.4 3.5 104  50    00   W/B  +30.9   24.4 +21.0  -3.9 ECU.   2.8  12.53
 3745  +9.2 3.6 104  50    00   W/B  +29.6   27.8 +20.8  -4.1 ECU.   2.9  12.59
 3831 +10.4 3.8 104  60    00   W/B  +28.8   29.4 +18.6  -5.0 ECU.   3.0  12.25
 4001 +11.7 3.8 104  70    00   W/B  +28.4   33.3 +17.0  -4.3 ECU.   3.0  11.67
 4020 +13.3 4.0 104  70    00   W/B  +28.0   38.0 +17.0  -4.2 ECU.   3.2  11.34
 4166 +14.7 3.9 104  80    00   W/B  +27.7   40.7 +14.5  -5.2 ECU.   3.1  11.11
 4257 +16.4 4.1 103  90    00   W/B  +27.4   39.9 +13.8  -5.4 ECU.   3.2  10.74
 4323 +17.6 4.0 103  90    00   W/B  +27.1   46.6 +14.4  -5.6 ECU.   3.2  10.74
 4432 +18.2 4.2 104  90    00   W/B  +26.9   41.0 +14.6  -5.9 ECU.   3.3  10.89
 4566 +18.8 4.1 104  90    00   W/B  +27.7   44.2 +15.4  -6.6 ECU.   3.1  10.96
 4610 +18.6 4.2 104  90    00   W/B  +28.3   40.7 +15.4  -6.3 ECU.   3.3  11.14
 4708 +18.0 4.1 104  80    00   W/B  +28.1   47.5 +16.8  -6.7 ECU.   3.2  11.24
 4938 +17.6 4.3 104  80    00   W/B  +27.8   45.9 +17.3  -6.8 ECU.   3.3  11.30
 5065 +17.6 4.2 103  90    00   W/B  +29.0   51.0 +17.4  -7.5 ECU.   3.2  11.33
 5136 +17.6 4.3 104  90    00   W/B  +30.4   47.5 +17.5  -7.2 ECU.   3.4  11.30
 5192 +18.0 4.2 104  90    00   W/B  +31.6   54.3 +18.0  -7.7 ECU.   3.3  11.24
 5350 +18.4 4.4 104  90    00   W/B  +32.0   50.7 +18.4  -7.6 ECU.   3.4  11.23
 5437 +18.2 4.3 104  90    00   W/B  +32.3   52.5 +18.8  -7.7 ECU.   3.3  11.23
 5574 +18.4 4.4 104  90    00   W/B  +32.6   53.3 +19.0  -7.8 ECU.   3.4  11.17
 5640 +18.2 4.4 103  90    00   W/B  +32.6   54.3 +19.0  -8.6 ECU.   3.4  11.18
 5817 +18.2 4.5 104  90    00   W/B  +33.1   56.9 +19.0  -8.6 ECU.   3.4  11.23
 5899 +18.8 4.5 104  90    00   W/B  +33.0   58.6 +19.0  -8.5 ECU.   3.4  11.27
 5858 +18.2 4.5 104  90    00   W/B  +34.3   58.0 +19.0  -8.0 ECU.   3.5  11.30
 6027 +18.6 4.5 103  80    00   W/B  +34.5   58.2 +20.0  -7.9 ECU.   3.5  11.34
 6150 +18.6 4.5 104  90    00   W/B  +35.1   57.9 +19.4  -8.0 ECU.   3.5  11.39
 6127 +18.0 4.5 103  90    00   W/B  +35.9   62.0 +20.0  -7.9 ECU.   3.5  11.39
 6325 +18.0 4.6 104  80    00   W/B  +37.7   60.8 +21.0  -7.5 ECU.   3.6  11.34
 6510 +18.2 4.6 103  90    00   W/B  +38.1   64.2 +20.0  -7.9 ECU.   3.5  11.23
 6587 +18.4 4.6 104  90    00   W/B  +39.4   59.5 +20.0  -7.2 ECU.   3.6  11.20
 6653 +18.4 4.6 103  90    00   W/B  +39.4   61.1 +20.0  -7.2 ECU.   3.5  11.34
 6706 +18.8 4.6 104  90    00   W/B  +39.3   64.2 +20.0  -7.0 ECU.   3.6  11.39
 6788 +18.2 4.6 103  80    00   W/B  +39.4   61.9 +21.0  -6.4 ECU.   3.6  11.28
 6858 +17.4 4.6 104  80    00   W/B  +39.4   65.1 +21.0  -6.0 ECU.   3.6  11.18
 6600 +17.4 4.6 103  80    00   W/B  +39.4   63.3 +21.0  -6.1 ECU.   3.6  11.06
 6958 +17.2 4.5 104  90    00   W/B  +40.0   63.1 +20.0  -6.2 ECU.   3.6  11.05
 6830 +17.6 4.6 104  90    00   W/B  +40.6   64.3 +20.0  -5.9 ECU.   3.6  11.14
 7002 +17.2 4.5 104  80    00   W/B  +39.8   63.9 +21.0  -5.5 ECU.   3.6  11.23
Summary: 18psi, 11.3:1 AFR, 21 degrees timing at redline

Cheers

Mick
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Old 07-10-2005, 03:01 PM   #8
PDXTuning
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 49831
Join Date: Dec 2003
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: www.pdxtuning.com
Vehicle:
2008 Get Tuned Now
Knowledge is Power

Default

Pump Gas + Water injection

Code:
     DATA1

                    Load Knock                     Mod   Mod         Mod   WB 
 RPM   MAP  MAF TPS Site Count  AFR  Ign#1  Inj#1  Ign   Fuel Boost  MAF   AFR
       psia  V   %                    deg   duty   deg    %   (CL)    V  
 1720  +0.2 2.4 104  10    00   W/B  +26.6    5.6 +25.0  -2.0 ECU.   2.0  14.25
 1759  +0.2 2.3 104  10    00   W/B  +26.6    6.6 +25.0  -2.3 ECU.   1.9  14.33
 1767  +0.4 2.4 103  10    00   W/B  +26.9    6.7 +25.0  -2.0 ECU.   2.0  14.61
 1804  +0.6 2.4 104  10    00   W/B  +26.9    7.3 +25.0  -2.1 ECU.   1.9  14.83
 1893  +0.6 2.4 103  10    00   W/B  +27.2    8.5 +25.0  -2.1 ECU.   2.0  14.70
 1885  +0.8 2.5 104  10    00   W/B  +27.6    7.7 +25.0  -2.2 ECU.   2.0  14.53
 1936  +0.8 2.5 103  10    00   W/B  +28.0    7.2 +25.0  -2.3 ECU.   2.1  14.45
 1993  +0.8 2.5 103  10    00   W/B  +28.2    7.5 +25.0  -2.4 ECU.   2.0  14.49
 2033  +0.8 2.5 104  10    00   W/B  +28.6    7.6 +25.0  -2.4 ECU.   2.0  14.61
 2048  +0.8 2.5 104  10    00   W/B  +28.9    7.7 +25.0  -2.4 ECU.   2.0  14.74
 2119  +1.1 2.5 104  10    00   W/B  +29.2    7.8 +25.0  -2.4 ECU.   2.1  14.74
 2125  +1.1 2.5 103  10    00   W/B  +29.2    7.9 +25.0  -2.4 ECU.   2.1  14.49
 2201  +1.3 2.6 103  10    00   W/B  +29.6    8.4 +25.0  -2.4 ECU.   2.1  14.74
 2243  +1.3 2.5 104  10    00   W/B  +29.8    8.9 +25.0  -2.3 ECU.   2.1  15.12
 2249  +1.5 2.6 104  10    00   W/B  +29.8    8.8 +25.1  -2.4 ECU.   2.1  14.74
 2318  +1.7 2.6 103  10    00   W/B  +30.4    9.2 +25.2  -2.4 ECU.   2.2  14.58
 2375  +1.9 2.7 104  10    00   W/B  +30.8    9.4 +25.4  -2.4 ECU.   2.2  14.49
 2420  +1.9 2.7 104  10    00   W/B  +30.8   10.1 +25.6  -2.3 ECU.   2.2  14.49
 2461  +2.1 2.7 103  20    00   W/B  +31.1   10.7 +25.8  -2.3 ECU.   2.3  14.42
 2508  +2.3 2.7 103  20    00   W/B  +31.1   10.9 +26.0  -2.2 ECU.   2.3  14.15
 2570  +2.5 2.8 104  20    00   W/B  +31.4   11.4 +26.0  -2.2 ECU.   2.3  13.92
 2616  +2.7 2.8 104  20    00   W/B  +31.7   11.9 +26.0  -2.1 ECU.   2.4  13.68
 2677  +3.1 2.8 104  20    00   W/B  +31.7   12.9 +26.0  -2.0 ECU.   2.3  13.56
 2730  +3.3 2.9 103  20    00   W/B  +31.8   13.7 +26.0  -2.0 ECU.   2.3  13.56
 2794  +3.5 2.9 103  20    00   W/B  +31.7   14.7 +26.0  -1.9 ECU.   2.5  13.33
 2851  +3.7 3.1 104  20    00   W/B  +31.6   16.4 +26.0  -1.9 ECU.   2.4  12.96
 2913  +4.1 3.1 104  30    00   W/B  +30.9   18.2 +25.4  -2.1 ECU.   2.5  12.49
 2989  +4.9 3.1 103  30    00   W/B  +30.9   19.4 +25.1  -2.5 ECU.   2.7  12.06
 3060  +5.5 3.2 104  30    00   W/B  +31.0   20.2 +25.0  -2.7 ECU.   2.7  11.62
 3097  +6.6 3.2 104  40    00   W/B  +31.0   20.6 +23.0  -2.6 ECU.   2.7  11.34
 3189  +7.4 3.3 104  40    00   W/B  +30.9   21.7 +23.0  -2.7 ECU.   2.7  11.28
 3287  +8.0 3.4 104  40    00   W/B  +30.6   23.0 +23.0  -2.8 ECU.   2.8  11.27
 3394  +8.6 3.5 103  50    00   W/B  +29.6   24.4 +21.0  -2.7 ECU.   2.8  11.33
 3439  +9.6 3.6 104  50    00   W/B  +28.9   26.2 +21.0  -2.7 ECU.   3.0  11.43
 3519 +10.8 3.6 103  60    00   W/B  +27.8   28.6 +18.0  -4.0 ECU.   2.9  11.33
 3663 +12.5 3.8 104  70    00   W/B  +27.4   30.3 +16.0  -4.3 ECU.   3.1  11.23
 3766 +14.3 3.9 103  70    00   W/B  +26.0   33.0 +16.0  -4.5 ECU.   3.2  11.43
 3875 +15.9 3.9 104  80    00   W/B  +26.1   37.3 +15.0  -5.3 ECU.   3.1  11.56
 3977 +17.6 4.1 104  90    00   W/B  +26.3   33.0 +15.0  -5.9 ECU.   3.2  11.71
 4070 +19.0 4.0 104  90    00   W/B  +26.6   44.6 +15.3  -6.8 ECU.   3.1  11.98
 4230 +19.6 4.2 104  90    00   W/B  +27.8   36.0 +15.9  -7.8 ECU.   3.3  11.93
 4374 +20.4 4.0 103 100    00   W/B  +27.0   47.7 +16.4  -7.7 ECU.   3.1  11.84
 4510 +20.8 4.3 104 100    00   W/B  +26.1   46.1 +16.8  -7.5 ECU.   3.4  11.93
 4591 +20.8 4.1 103  90    00   W/B  +26.2   49.7 +17.0  -7.9 ECU.   3.2  11.89
 4629 +21.2 4.3 104 100    00   W/B  +26.3   46.0 +17.9  -8.3 ECU.   3.4  11.71
 4701 +20.8 4.3 103 100    00   W/B  +27.4   48.3 +18.5  -8.2 ECU.   3.3  11.73
 5020 +20.8 4.4 103  90    00   W/B  +28.4   48.7 +19.1  -8.1 ECU.   3.4  11.93
 5005 +20.8 4.3 103  90    00   W/B  +29.4   54.2 +19.4  -8.9 ECU.   3.4  11.92
 5282 +20.2 4.4 103  90    00   W/B  +31.4   52.0 +20.0  -8.8 ECU.   3.4  11.68
 5299 +20.6 4.4 103 100    00   W/B  +31.8   53.3 +20.4  -9.1 ECU.   3.4  11.73
 5491 +20.4 4.5 104  90    00   W/B  +32.1   57.6 +21.1  -9.3 ECU.   3.5  11.71
 5537 +20.8 4.5 103 100    00   W/B  +31.9   56.2 +21.2  -9.4 ECU.   3.4  11.62
 5787 +21.0 4.6 104 100    00   W/B  +31.9   58.6 +21.7  -9.6 ECU.   3.5  11.73
 5910 +21.7 4.6 103 100    00   W/B  +32.6   59.4 +22.0  -9.6 ECU.   3.5  11.76
 5920 +21.5 4.6 104 100    00   W/B  +33.1   59.2 +22.0  -8.9 ECU.   3.5  11.77
 5910 +21.2 4.6 103  90    00   W/B  +33.0   61.2 +22.0  -9.0 ECU.   3.5  11.80
 6172 +21.7 4.6 103 100    00   W/B  +34.3   59.7 +22.2  -9.0 ECU.   3.5  11.81
 6172 +20.8 4.6 103 100    00   W/B  +34.9   63.3 +23.0  -8.8 ECU.   3.5  11.76
 6325 +21.2 4.7 104  90    00   W/B  +38.7   65.5 +23.0  -8.9 ECU.   3.6  11.71
 6459 +21.2 4.7 103 100    00   W/B  +39.4   62.9 +23.6  -8.8 ECU.   3.6  11.76
 6693 +20.8 4.7 104 100    00   W/B  +39.2   65.4 +23.7  -7.4 ECU.   3.6  11.80
 6693 +21.2 4.7 103 100    00   W/B  +39.4   65.6 +24.0  -7.4 ECU.   3.6  11.80
 6844 +21.5 4.7 104 100    00   W/B  +39.2   64.9 +24.0  -7.4 ECU.   3.6  11.77
 6600 +21.7 4.7 103 100    00   W/B  +40.3   63.5 +24.0  -7.6 ECU.   3.6  11.80
 6747 +21.5 4.7 104 100    00   W/B  +40.7   63.8 +24.0  -7.8 ECU.   3.6  11.77
 6830 +21.0 4.7 103  90    00   W/B  +39.4   60.6 +24.0  -7.3 ECU.   3.6  11.76
Summary: Way more aggressive with the water injection enabled. 21 psi, 11.8:1 AFR, 24 degrees of timing at redline.

Cheers

Mick
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Old 07-10-2005, 03:04 PM   #9
PDXTuning
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 49831
Join Date: Dec 2003
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: www.pdxtuning.com
Vehicle:
2008 Get Tuned Now
Knowledge is Power

Default

Pump Gas + Torco + Water injection

Code:
     DATA1

                    Load Knock                     Mod   Mod         Mod   WB 
 RPM   MAP  MAF TPS Site Count  AFR  Ign#1  Inj#1  Ign   Fuel Boost  MAF   AFR
       psia  V   %                    deg   duty   deg    %   (CL)    V  
 1529  +0.0 2.2 103  10    00   W/B  +25.3    5.2 +26.0  -2.0 ECU.   1.9  14.83
 1531  +0.0 2.2 104  10    00   W/B  +25.7    5.4 +26.0  -2.0 ECU.   1.9  14.74
 1608  +0.2 2.3 104  10    00   W/B  +25.7    6.3 +26.0  -2.0 ECU.   1.9  14.15
 1638  +0.2 2.3 104  10    00   W/B  +26.1    6.0 +26.0  -2.0 ECU.   1.9  13.78
 1641  +0.2 2.2 103  10    00   W/B  +26.3    6.4 +26.0  -2.0 ECU.   1.9  14.11
 1710  +0.2 2.3 103  10    00   W/B  +26.6    6.7 +26.0  -2.0 ECU.   1.9  14.49
 1763  +0.4 2.4 103  10    00   W/B  +26.6    7.9 +26.0  -2.0 ECU.   2.0  14.37
 1806  +0.4 2.4 103  10    00   W/B  +26.9    7.0 +26.0  -2.0 ECU.   2.0  14.22
 1842  +0.4 2.4 103  10    00   W/B  +26.8    7.0 +26.0  -2.1 ECU.   2.0  14.15
 1881  +0.6 2.5 103  10    00   W/B  +27.3    6.9 +26.0  -2.2 ECU.   2.1  13.97
 1934  +0.6 2.4 103  10    00   W/B  +27.6    8.6 +26.0  -2.2 ECU.   2.0  13.84
 1966  +0.8 2.5 103  10    00   W/B  +27.9    7.6 +26.0  -2.2 ECU.   2.0  13.81
 2017  +0.8 2.5 103  10    00   W/B  +28.2    7.4 +26.0  -2.4 ECU.   2.0  13.75
 2048  +0.8 2.4 103  10    00   W/B  +28.6    7.4 +26.0  -2.4 ECU.   2.1  13.84
 2078  +1.1 2.5 103  10    00   W/B  +28.9    7.5 +26.0  -2.4 ECU.   2.0  13.97
 2134  +1.3 2.5 103  10    00   W/B  +29.2    7.7 +26.0  -2.4 ECU.   2.1  14.15
 2154  +1.5 2.6 103  10    00   W/B  +29.6    8.1 +26.0  -2.4 ECU.   2.1  14.58
 2170  +1.5 2.5 103  10    00   W/B  +29.5    8.5 +26.0  -2.4 ECU.   2.1  14.87
 2253  +1.7 2.6 104  10    00   W/B  +29.8    8.7 +26.0  -2.4 ECU.   2.1  14.61
 2300  +1.7 2.6 103  10    00   W/B  +30.4    9.0 +26.2  -2.4 ECU.   2.2  14.49
 2306  +1.7 2.6 104  10    00   W/B  +30.3    9.3 +26.3  -2.4 ECU.   2.2  14.58
 2387  +1.9 2.7 103  10    00   W/B  +30.7    9.7 +26.5  -2.4 ECU.   2.2  14.49
 2433  +2.1 2.7 103  20    00   W/B  +31.2   10.2 +26.7  -2.3 ECU.   2.2  14.49
 2452  +2.3 2.7 104  20    00   W/B  +31.0   10.7 +26.9  -2.3 ECU.   2.2  14.25
 2519  +2.5 2.7 104  20    00   W/B  +31.1   11.2 +27.0  -2.2 ECU.   2.3  14.05
 2577  +2.7 2.8 103  20    00   W/B  +31.4   11.7 +27.0  -2.2 ECU.   2.3  13.92
 2635  +2.9 2.7 103  20    00   W/B  +31.8   12.0 +27.0  -2.1 ECU.   2.3  13.78
 2696  +3.1 2.9 103  20    00   W/B  +31.8   12.8 +27.0  -2.0 ECU.   2.4  13.65
 2757  +3.3 3.0 103  20    00   W/B  +32.2   13.6 +27.0  -1.9 ECU.   2.4  13.47
 2803  +3.5 3.0 104  20    00   W/B  +31.6   15.8 +27.0  -1.9 ECU.   2.4  13.23
 2873  +3.9 3.1 103  20    00   W/B  +31.3   16.7 +27.0  -1.8 ECU.   2.5  12.86
 2939  +4.3 3.2 104  30    00   W/B  +31.0   18.2 +26.3  -2.1 ECU.   2.6  12.45
 2994  +4.9 3.1 104  30    00   W/B  +30.9   19.7 +26.1  -2.5 ECU.   2.6  11.92
 3069  +5.7 3.2 104  30    00   W/B  +31.1   20.2 +26.0  -2.6 ECU.   2.6  11.52
 3168  +6.6 3.3 104  40    00   W/B  +31.3   20.6 +24.0  -3.3 ECU.   2.7  11.34
 3205  +7.6 3.3 104  40    00   W/B  +31.3   21.7 +24.0  -3.7 ECU.   2.7  11.34
 3353  +8.4 3.5 104  50    00   W/B  +30.9   22.7 +22.0  -3.7 ECU.   2.7  11.48
 3380  +9.2 3.5 104  50    00   W/B  +29.5   24.4 +22.0  -3.7 ECU.   2.9  11.68
 3505 +10.4 3.7 104  60    00   W/B  +28.5   25.8 +19.0  -4.5 ECU.   2.9  11.89
 3615 +11.7 3.7 104  60    00   W/B  +28.2   27.7 +19.0  -4.6 ECU.   2.9  11.92
 3716 +13.3 3.8 104  70    00   W/B  +27.1   31.1 +17.0  -5.0 ECU.   3.1  11.93
 3844 +14.9 4.0 103  80    00   W/B  +25.3   33.9 +16.0  -5.1 ECU.   3.3  11.89
 3921 +17.2 4.0 104  90    00   W/B  +25.9   38.5 +15.0  -5.9 ECU.   3.2  11.76
 4074 +19.0 4.2 103 100    00   W/B  +25.6   40.3 +15.3  -5.9 ECU.   3.1  11.81
 4156 +20.6 4.0 104 100    00   W/B  +26.7   46.4 +15.8  -6.5 ECU.   3.3  11.81
 4290 +21.5 4.1 103 100    00   W/B  +26.6   42.4 +16.3  -7.4 ECU.   3.2  11.76
 4480 +21.5 4.1 104 100    00   W/B  +26.2   48.3 +16.9  -7.2 ECU.   3.3  11.84
 4649 +21.5 4.3 103 100    00   W/B  +25.2   45.5 +17.4  -6.9 ECU.   3.3  11.87
 4604 +21.7 4.3 104 100    00   W/B  +26.0   47.3 +17.4  -7.5 ECU.   3.3  11.71
 4694 +22.1 4.3 103 100    00   W/B  +25.9   49.5 +18.3  -7.8 ECU.   3.3  11.62
 5042 +22.1 4.3 104 100    00   W/B  +27.6   51.2 +19.0  -8.4 ECU.   3.3  11.65
 5151 +21.9 4.4 103  90    00   W/B  +28.4   49.5 +19.5  -8.7 ECU.   3.4  11.67
 5184 +21.7 4.4 104 100    00   W/B  +31.1   53.7 +19.9  -8.5 ECU.   3.4  11.68
 5359 +20.8 4.4 103 100    00   W/B  +31.2   54.4 +20.4  -8.6 ECU.   3.4  11.62
 5500 +20.8 4.5 104 100    00   W/B  +31.1   55.1 +21.0  -9.2 ECU.   3.4  11.48
 5678 +21.7 4.6 103 100    00   W/B  +30.6   59.8 +21.0  -9.2 ECU.   3.5  11.49
 5727 +21.2 4.6 104 100    00   W/B  +30.9   60.7 +21.1  -9.1 ECU.   3.5  11.62
 5878 +21.9 4.6 103 100    00   W/B  +31.3   60.1 +21.5  -9.1 ECU.   3.5  11.67
 5995 +21.2 4.6 103 100    00   W/B  +32.4   60.5 +21.6  -8.9 ECU.   3.5  11.73
 6071 +21.0 4.6 104 100    00   W/B  +33.4   58.2 +22.0  -8.9 ECU.   3.5  11.81
 6038 +21.5 4.5 103 100    00   W/B  +35.0   58.6 +22.0  -9.0 ECU.   3.5  11.93
 6230 +20.8 4.6 103  90    00   W/B  +35.4   59.2 +22.0  -9.0 ECU.   3.5  11.93
 6485 +20.6 4.6 103  90    00   W/B  +38.4   62.0 +22.3  -8.9 ECU.   3.5  11.87
 6349 +20.2 4.7 103  90    00   W/B  +39.4   64.4 +23.1  -8.5 ECU.   3.6  11.65
 6666 +19.8 4.7 103  90    00   W/B  +39.4   65.1 +23.4  -8.6 ECU.   3.6  11.62
 6747 +20.6 4.7 103 100    00   W/B  +39.4   66.0 +24.0  -7.4 ECU.   3.6  11.76
 6788 +20.6 4.7 103 100    00   W/B  +39.4   62.3 +25.0  -8.2 ECU.   3.6  11.80
 6747 +21.0 4.7 104  90    00   W/B  +39.1   65.8 +25.0  -8.1 ECU.   3.6  11.89
 6958 +20.8 4.7 103 100    00   W/B  +39.9   64.3 +25.0  -7.9 ECU.   3.6  11.92
 6788 +20.4 4.7 103  90    00   W/B  +39.4   61.5 +25.0  -7.5 ECU.   3.6  11.87
Summary: About the same boost and AFR as the pump+water tune, 21 psi, 11.8:1 AFR but 25 degrees of timing at redline

Cheers

Mick

Last edited by PDXTuning; 07-10-2005 at 03:09 PM.
PDXTuning is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2005, 03:08 PM   #10
PDXTuning
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 49831
Join Date: Dec 2003
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: www.pdxtuning.com
Vehicle:
2008 Get Tuned Now
Knowledge is Power

Default

Race Gas (Water injection disabled) 103 octane unleaded

Code:
     DATA1

                    Load Knock                     Mod   Mod         Mod   WB 
 RPM   MAP  MAF TPS Site Count  AFR  Ign#1  Inj#1  Ign   Fuel Boost  MAF   AFR
       psia  V   %                    deg   duty   deg    %   (CL)    V  
 1724  -0.4 2.4 103  10    00   W/B  +26.6    6.1 +28.0  -2.0 ECU.   1.9  14.33
 1745  -0.2 2.3 103  10    00   W/B  +26.9    5.8 +28.0  -2.0 ECU.   1.9  14.25
 1773  +0.0 2.4 103  10    00   W/B  +27.0    6.8 +28.0  -2.1 ECU.   1.9  13.78
 1811  +0.2 2.4 103  10    00   W/B  +27.3    7.3 +28.0  -2.1 ECU.   1.9  13.81
 1895  +0.2 2.3 103  10    00   W/B  +27.6    8.4 +28.0  -2.2 ECU.   2.0  14.05
 1899  +0.4 2.5 103  10    00   W/B  +27.9    7.2 +28.0  -2.2 ECU.   2.0  14.11
 1937  +0.4 2.4 103  10    00   W/B  +28.3    7.7 +28.0  -2.3 ECU.   2.0  14.22
 1984  +0.4 2.5 103  10    00   W/B  +28.6    7.2 +28.0  -2.4 ECU.   2.0  14.05
 2053  +0.4 2.4 103  10    00   W/B  +28.9    7.3 +28.0  -2.4 ECU.   2.0  13.97
 2069  +0.6 2.5 103  10    00   W/B  +28.9    7.5 +28.0  -2.4 ECU.   2.0  14.05
 2080  +0.6 2.5 103  10    00   W/B  +29.6    7.5 +28.0  -2.4 ECU.   2.0  14.18
 2125  +0.6 2.5 103  10    00   W/B  +29.6    7.7 +28.0  -2.4 ECU.   2.0  14.58
 2201  +0.8 2.5 103  10    00   W/B  +29.8    8.0 +28.0  -2.4 ECU.   2.1  15.12
 2208  +0.8 2.5 103  10    00   W/B  +29.8    8.3 +28.0  -2.4 ECU.   2.1  15.44
 2244  +0.8 2.5 103  10    00   W/B  +30.3    8.4 +28.0  -2.3 ECU.   2.1  15.50
 2279  +1.1 2.5 103  10    00   W/B  +30.7    8.6 +28.2  -2.4 ECU.   2.1  15.37
 2335  +1.3 2.6 103  10    00   W/B  +30.8    8.8 +28.4  -2.4 ECU.   2.2  15.31
 2370  +1.3 2.6 103  10    00   W/B  +31.0    9.2 +28.6  -2.3 ECU.   2.2  15.31
 2401  +1.5 2.6 103  10    00   W/B  +31.0    9.6 +28.7  -2.3 ECU.   2.2  15.24
 2474  +1.5 2.6 103  10    00   W/B  +31.4    9.9 +28.9  -2.3 ECU.   2.2  15.18
 2508  +1.7 2.7 103  10    00   W/B  +31.4   10.2 +29.0  -2.2 ECU.   2.2  15.02
 2564  +1.9 2.7 103  10    00   W/B  +31.8   10.8 +29.0  -2.2 ECU.   2.2  14.92
 2612  +2.1 2.7 103  10    00   W/B  +32.1   11.2 +29.0  -2.1 ECU.   2.2  14.78
 2670  +2.3 2.8 103  20    00   W/B  +32.5   11.2 +29.0  -2.0 ECU.   2.3  14.65
 2718  +2.3 2.8 103  20    00   W/B  +32.4   12.1 +29.0  -2.0 ECU.   2.4  14.49
 2780  +2.5 2.9 103  20    00   W/B  +32.5   13.3 +29.0  -1.9 ECU.   2.4  14.25
 2834  +2.7 2.9 103  20    00   W/B  +32.4   14.4 +29.0  -1.9 ECU.   2.4  13.92
 2871  +3.1 3.0 103  20    00   W/B  +32.0   15.4 +29.0  -1.8 ECU.   2.5  13.53
 2952  +3.5 3.0 103  20    00   W/B  +31.7   17.2 +29.0  -1.8 ECU.   2.5  13.17
 2984  +3.9 3.1 103  20    00   W/B  +31.7   17.6 +29.0  -1.7 ECU.   2.6  12.68
 3086  +4.3 3.1 103  30    00   W/B  +32.1   17.5 +28.0  -2.7 ECU.   2.6  12.18
 3132  +4.9 3.2 104  30    00   W/B  +32.3   18.0 +28.0  -2.4 ECU.   2.6  11.93
 3223  +5.3 3.2 104  30    00   W/B  +32.2   19.4 +28.0  -2.3 ECU.   2.7  12.00
 3271  +6.2 3.2 103  40    00   W/B  +32.1   20.0 +26.0  -3.9 ECU.   2.7  12.14
 3343  +7.2 3.3 104  40    00   W/B  +32.3   20.1 +26.0  -3.7 ECU.   2.7  12.11
 3461  +7.8 3.3 103  40    00   W/B  +31.9   20.8 +26.0  -3.6 ECU.   2.7  12.30
 3519  +8.6 3.4 104  50    00   W/B  +31.4   22.4 +24.0  -3.6 ECU.   2.8  12.68
 3561  +9.4 3.5 103  50    00   W/B  +30.5   23.6 +24.0  -3.6 ECU.   2.8  12.86
 3757 +10.2 3.6 104  50    00   W/B  +28.8   27.0 +24.0  -3.6 ECU.   2.9  12.89
 3813 +11.5 3.8 103  60    00   W/B  +28.4   29.8 +20.6  -5.1 ECU.   3.0  12.75
 3940 +12.7 3.9 104  70    00   W/B  +28.0   33.7 +19.0  -5.0 ECU.   3.1  12.45
 4070 +14.3 4.0 103  70    00   W/B  +25.5   39.9 +19.0  -5.0 ECU.   3.2  12.18
 4177 +16.4 4.0 103  90    00   W/B  +26.5   42.5 +17.6  -7.4 ECU.   3.1  11.81
 4262 +18.0 4.2 103  90    00   W/B  +26.7   42.5 +18.3  -8.0 ECU.   3.2  11.62
 4438 +19.8 4.2 103 100    00   W/B  +26.0   50.2 +18.7  -7.0 ECU.   3.3  12.00
 4597 +21.2 4.4 103 100    00   W/B  +24.5   49.1 +19.2  -7.2 ECU.   3.4  12.23
 4688 +22.1 4.3 103 100    00   W/B  +25.3   50.8 +19.8  -7.6 ECU.   3.3  12.02
 4930 +22.3 4.4 104 100    00   W/B  +26.3   48.7 +20.4  -7.7 ECU.   3.3  12.02
 5042 +22.5 4.3 103 100    00   W/B  +27.6   52.3 +21.0  -7.5 ECU.   3.4  12.25
 5192 +22.3 4.4 103 100    00   W/B  +28.3   53.7 +21.5  -8.2 ECU.   3.4  12.23
 5291 +21.9 4.5 104 100    00   W/B  +30.7   59.9 +21.9  -9.1 ECU.   3.4  11.93
 5393 +22.1 4.6 103 100    00   W/B  +30.2   56.1 +22.6  -8.9 ECU.   3.5  11.77
 5527 +22.7 4.6 103 100    00   W/B  +31.2   59.2 +23.0  -9.2 ECU.   3.5  11.87
 5777 +22.5 4.6 103 100    00   W/B  +31.8   59.5 +23.1  -9.1 ECU.   3.5  12.17
 5827 +23.1 4.6 103 100    00   W/B  +32.0   61.2 +23.4  -9.2 ECU.   3.5  12.39
 5797 +23.1 4.6 103 100    00   W/B  +31.8   61.1 +23.3  -9.1 ECU.   3.5  12.34
 5995 +22.7 4.7 103 100    00   W/B  +31.8   64.6 +23.8  -9.1 ECU.   3.5  12.17
 6105 +22.9 4.7 103 100    00   W/B  +32.9   65.7 +24.0  -8.6 ECU.   3.6  12.02
 6218 +22.3 4.7 103 100    00   W/B  +34.1   66.9 +24.1  -8.5 ECU.   3.6  12.02
 6138 +22.3 4.7 103 100    00   W/B  +38.3   63.2 +24.2  -8.5 ECU.   3.6  12.09
 6510 +22.3 4.6 103 100    00   W/B  +39.4   66.4 +25.6  -8.5 ECU.   3.6  12.14
 6747 +21.2 4.7 103  90    00   W/B  +41.3   63.0 +25.6  -8.3 ECU.   3.6  12.23
 6561 +21.2 4.7 103  90    00   W/B  +39.4   65.6 +26.0  -7.5 ECU.   3.6  12.25
 6844 +21.7 4.7 103 100    00   W/B  +38.9   65.6 +26.0  -7.4 ECU.   3.6  12.17
 6930 +21.2 4.7 102 100    00   W/B  +39.4   66.6 +26.0  -7.2 ECU.   3.7  12.14
 6944 +22.1 4.7 103 100    00   W/B  +40.7   61.7 +26.0  -7.3 ECU.   3.6  12.14
 7107 +21.9 4.7 103 100    00   W/B  +40.6   62.5 +26.0  -7.2 ECU.   3.6  12.21
Summary: More of everything 23 psi peak rolling off to 22 psi, 12.3:1 AFR was the target, more timing across the board with 26 degrees at redline.

Cheers

Mick
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Old 07-10-2005, 03:37 PM   #11
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Nice setup, what does a stock wrx put down on that dyno?
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Old 07-10-2005, 04:18 PM   #12
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A stock WRX on the Matrix Mustang dyno puts down between 175-185 WHP.

A stage 2 WRX typically puts down between 210-220 WHP.

A stage 4 (VF) typically puts down 260-270 WHP.

"ka mano" has a sweet setup
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Old 07-11-2005, 04:23 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PDXTuning
A stock WRX on the Matrix Mustang dyno puts down between 175-185 WHP.

A stage 2 WRX typically puts down between 210-220 WHP.

A stage 4 (VF) typically puts down 260-270 WHP.

"ka mano" has a sweet setup

<thumbup thumbup>
PDXT tunes rock.

And great to have you down S!
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Old 07-12-2005, 04:02 AM   #14
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Hows the tranny holding up?
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Old 07-12-2005, 04:58 AM   #15
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So far so good. Of course I haven't been fueling with race and launching at the track. I'm expecting the first signs of change to be a loosening clutch and that could protect the tranny for a while.

Am I secretly hoping something will blow so I can upgrade? I don't think so. I'd rather be driving.

Thanks for posting the UTEC logs, Mick. That's a great policy of PDX which I completely support. We can all learn from each other.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremy@matrix
...great to have you down S!
Thanks, Jeremy!
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Old 07-12-2005, 08:57 AM   #16
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Aquamist 2d with 30cc accumulator <-- is that the WI mechanism?
nice # btw
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Old 07-12-2005, 11:20 AM   #17
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Aquamist makes the water injection system and with this setup "ka mano" also opted for the 30cc accumulator. With the 2D system the accumulator is primed to pressure by the pump and stores the pressurized water until the WI activates. Then you get instant water injection at full pressure. The pump runs keeping the accumulator up to pressure.
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Old 07-13-2005, 11:10 AM   #18
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Mick of PDX,

Why are you keeping your AFRs so low? Did you find more power buy increasing boost instead of optimizing the fuel AFR?

Did you use EGT as a tuning tool? I'd be interested in what effects you saw with water turned on, and if you used that data as a real guide.

I'm in the thick of tuning my car right now with WI. Tuning with water injection seems counter to conventional forced induction tuning. With sufficient water (that is key), you should find power via more complete combustion as fuel approaches stoichiometric AFR. Ed Haney's paper on this gives some of the theoretical justification for this approach, but the real evidence is in the empirical data collected by NACA in the 1940's. It seems water plays an active role in combustion, so even with race gas, water can be a source of more power by furthering chemical combustion. You can use water as an anti-detonant, an air density enhancer (there are a couple of ways), or as a catalyst for CO->C02 conversion. There are lots of ways to take advantage of water injection, I don't think we know yet what works best.
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Old 07-13-2005, 11:39 AM   #19
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Hi "bboy"
EGT's 1500 on pump, 1450 with water and stayed steady. Cooling effects.

On pump gas with water on in this case going from 11.8 to 12.4 AFR's made no difference in power but it did make the tune more prone to knock. This was easy to see on the dyno charts. Rule of thumb is if it's not adding power don't do it. This is the same with adding timing. If the timing additions that are made don't make power then take them off.

In this case the water allowed more boost, more timing which did add power, going more aggressive with AFR did not.

I'm not sure if Jeff S posted our results of AFR testing and power, anyway on pump gas we have not seen huge gains by leaning out the AFR's

On race gas, unleaded or leaded you have to go leaner as it burns slower. Cars with C16 actually seem to lose power when it is run on a pump gas tune. Add some timing, lean it out and hey presto.

What results are you seeing?

Cheers

Mick
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Old 07-14-2005, 11:13 AM   #20
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Yeah, leaning out fuel will not gain you much, on the other had throwing fuel away is not so great either. If you aren't loosing power by leaning, and there is no det, why not lean it out? From my reading water injection basically eliminates the power differential between say 11:1 and 12:1 to 14:1 AFRs (NACA data from the 1940's).

You can use WI in many ways. Everybody wants more power, but you can also improve fuel efficiency and/or introduce more safety (lower det potential) and/or enhance reliability.

Thanks for your feedback Mick. I'm surprised that EGT dropped only 50F, but Steve's 18g is blowing pretty cool air, so maybe it's not so surprising. My VF39 is a hair dryer.

Great to see more folks using water injection. I love it!!
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Old 07-14-2005, 11:50 AM   #21
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Quote:
but it did make the tune more prone to knock.
In the case of this car I did start to see knock when I leaned it out even more. We did not touch the boost or the timing just worked on the fueling. This is why I backed off.

I have been following your other thread and I am going to be very interested in your results.
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Old 07-14-2005, 10:56 PM   #22
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very nice numbers. I made very similar numbers (329hp 314tq) on 92 octane, mustang dyno, and aquamist 2d. I have an 8cm 18g. What size nozzle are you using? I have the 1.0mm, but with the sti pinks at 85%idc. Thanks for posting the logs, our tune seems to be right about the same! It works, thats for sure
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Old 07-15-2005, 08:52 PM   #23
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Default I'll have to get back to on the nozzle size...

Thanks, I'm really enjoying it! It's interesting there's a 40 ft. lb. difference in torque between our two rides... . Would you mind posting your power set-up here for a side-by-side?
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Old 07-16-2005, 03:19 AM   #24
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Is this 18g the same as Deadbolts TD05-18g?
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Old 07-16-2005, 07:15 AM   #25
ka mano
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Default good question...

Deadbolt's has a lot of similarities to the FP TD05H 18G. Here's a link to read more about the turbo I decided to get: http://linux.forcedperformance.net/merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=FP&Product_Code =NTWRXFP1805H&Category_Code=WRX

There's a thread that's focused on your question: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=581249&page=2&pp=25

My standard issue FP 18g came ported with a polished lip. Had the compressor housing polished for more shine under the hood, but with the WRX turbo placement, it hardly jumps out at ya.

I decided against water cooling, an FP option, 'cause I have the stock radiator and didn't want the turbo heating up the engine's coolant. I figure turbo cooling is covered with synthetic oil and a nice cool down idle after a hot run... good for both the turbo and the motor. By the time the ignition is off (I use a turbo timer) the turbo has cooled off plenty.

Decided ceramic coating of the exhaust housing didn't make sense to me, especially on the inside.

Both Robert of Forced Performance and Richard of Deadbolt were great at answering my questions... I went with FP's longer track record, experience with building turbos and history of excellent service. I'm very satisfied with my choice.

A lot of people love Deadbolt as you'll see in the other thread, which is probably the better place to extend the debate on this.
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