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Old 08-09-2001, 03:33 PM   #1
Faster than your Mom
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Default Gas in Denver

A question for those that live in Denver.

Does anyone know where you can get 93 octane in Denver? I live in littleton (actually, closer to Golden) and have not been able to find it anywhere around here.

Also, has anyone tried the homebrew octane boosters listed in the links off of this site. I am a little worried about pouring stuff into my tank, just because someone says it's okay. The science seems sound, just a little over cautious I guess.

Robert
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Old 08-09-2001, 03:56 PM   #2
KChung54
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Hi Robert:

I pulled this list off of JC Sports home page!

Kelvin

North:

Amoco -Wheatridge -32nd & Wadsworth - (100 octane)
Green Mountain Texaco -Denver -12410 W. Alameda Prkwy - (110 octane leaded)
The Kwik Korner -Berthoud -437 N Hwy 287 - (93 octane)
South:

Duggans Petroleum _Sheridan -4601 S. Santa Fe Dr - (101,104,110,114,118 octane)
Philips 66 -Denver -Colfax & Josephine - (101 octane)
Petro Stop - Aurora -4301 S Parker Rd - (93.5 octane)
Farmcrest -Centennial & 30th - (93 octane)
West:

Bandimare Speedway -Morrison - (100,104,116 octane)-Only on race days!
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Old 08-09-2001, 04:54 PM   #3
bratmantlz
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Quote:
Green Mountain Texaco -Denver -12410 W. Alameda Prkwy - (110 octane leaded)
do any cars still take leaded... gas..? i will have to remember that if i can make it to denver,. i wanna try somehight octane gas.
Brat
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Old 08-09-2001, 05:59 PM   #4
KChung54
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Yeah, that one threw me for a loop too. I didn't know any cars still took leaded -- or if they did, I thought the unleaded gas now had an additive that allowed it to be used in cars that still used leaded...

Kelvin
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Old 08-09-2001, 08:56 PM   #5
DaveK
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If you're not turbo'd don't waste $$ on high octane gas...unless you've got some other tricks up your sleeve, like having upped compresson or having the ability to advance the timing.
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Old 08-10-2001, 01:10 PM   #6
Faster than your Mom
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I have the WRX and planning on a few mods in near future (TurboXS kit) and a s-10 truck with intake and exhaust and a few other goodies that include the Hypertech programmer for the ECU that runs a couple versions of a program that is octane specific (87 or 93). I had to back off of the 93 octane setting (timing advance) due to the added retard that the ECU was throwing back in to mix. Kind of disturbing when I couldn't find 93 and having to back off of the HP and torque. Really sucks when you have it and can't use it......

Thanks for the info on locations for go juice.

Robert
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Old 08-10-2001, 10:46 PM   #7
FunkyPunkMonkey
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Default umm.. someone want to do the math for me?

<b>Hey
This brought to my mind that argument about octane and altitude....I was able to look this up. I believe we need to do the math for the Engine management systems:</B>

7.11 What is the effect of altitude?

The effect of increasing altitude may be nonlinear, with one study reporting a decrease of the octane requirement of 1.4 RON/300m from sea level to 1800m and 2.5 RON/300m from 1800m to 3600m [27]. Other studies report the octane number requirement decreased by 1.0 - 1.9 RON/300m without specifying altitude [38]. Modern engine management systems can accommodate this adjustment, and in some recent studies, the octane number requirement was reduced by 0.2 - 0.5 (R+M)/2 per 300m increase in altitude. The larger reduction on older engines was due to:
- Reduced air density provides lower combustion temperature and pressure.
- Fuel is metered according to air volume, consequently as density decreases
The stoichiometry moves to rich, with a lower octane number requirement.
- Manifold vacuum controlled spark advance, and reduced manifold vacuum
Results in less spark advance.


27. Reference 1.
- Chapter 20. K.Owen.

38. Automotive Gasolines - Recommended Practice.
SAE J312 Jan93.
SAE Handbook, volume 1. ISBN 1-56091-461-0 (1994).

<b>
RON= Research Octane Number
MON= Motor Octane Number
AKI=Anti - Knock Index (What tou see in the USA on the pumps, 89, 87, 93 etc.)
AKI in USA=(RON + MON) / 2

And Someone had this to say in a motorcycle group that I found doing my search:</b>

I have the honor(?) of making sure the octane equals what it says on the pump (I work in a refinery QA lab) . The difference between the two numbers RON and MON are just different test conditions. For the RON test, the engine simulates no load: low air intake temp, low rpm.This translates into a higher number for a given fuel. The MON test simulates an engine performing more work like going up a hill: higher intake temp combined with higher rpm's, hence a lower number. The spread between the RON and MON is usually about 10 units. For example, a pump that says 87 octane will have a RON of about 92 and a MON of about 82. So the AKI=(82+92)/2 or 87. The manual, to be on the safe (and confusing to most) side, lists a minimum of 95 RON. Subtract 5 from that (half of the spread) an it translates into an AKI or pump octane of 90. Hope this clears something up for somebody out there!

<b>Umm... also found this:</b>

Right now in the racing fuel business, there's a race to market the highest octane fuel that you can make. People relate the highest octane to "my motor is making more power." That couldn't be further from the truth.

One of the downsides to building a fuel with ultra-high octane is adding components that really slow down the flame front in the combustion process. You can get the flame front so slow, that the engine is now running in a too-rich condition. This takes away horsepower. So here you are, slowing down the flame front and getting rid of detonation, at the expense of losing horsepower.

I see this all the time at the track. I see engines running "heavy"; they're trying to tune it to lean it out, when actually the flame front is causing the problem.

If you run reliable lab tests on octane and incrementally increase the aromatic content, most lab people feel that if you get up above the 10 to 15 percent aromatic content, your octane falls off.

What the engine does is start making more heat, which requires more octane, which makes more heat: a real vicious cycle. It's like a dog chasing its own tail.

The bottom line is this: let's say your motor needs 92 octane to run correctly and you fill up with 125 octane wonder gas. You will not run any faster. In fact, you might end up running slower because of a radically slowed flame front.

<b>So what do you guys think?</B>
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Old 08-11-2001, 02:47 PM   #8
FunkyPunkMonkey
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Lightbulb hmm....

Ok... So here is what I came up with - someone want to see if I have it right? Wait - am I the only one that cares? If so let me know and I will quit going on.

Anyhow...

Lets see we are roughly a mile high, 5280 feet or 1609m. The equation above, given to us from some higher gas authority, says that for our engines (with computer managed fuel injection), we decrease the (RON+MON)/2 or AKI .2-.5 for every 300m. 1609m/300m=5.4 and taking an average of .2-.5 we are looking at .35. So .35(5.4)=1.9, so roughly a decrease of 2. The recomended AKI in our manuals is 87, so 87-2=85 which is what we have as the "low" option at the pumps. That is also why in the lower elivations, like Texass we see their "low" option as 87.

Now I see the ONLY reason that we should run higher AKI (Octane) is if we have some crazy compression ratio, like if we are running a turbo. I do not believe that runing a modified intake or exhaust should really affect the compression - so we are safe there... what else would effect the compression?

From reading what people say about running at too high an octane level - it actually sounds like you will run SLOWER and you will be damaging the engine, not to mention the fact that you are not compleately buring the fuel which is hard on the enviroment.


Let me know what everyone thinks....


- <i>JD</i>
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