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Old 07-13-2005, 07:48 PM   #1
LegacySTI
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Legacy Engine thoughts

So I'm going to do an engine swap and depending on which route I go it could be next summer at the earliest or a few years down the road. So here are my thoughts. Should I buy an STI short block for like 1500$ and build it up so when I do put it in I will have mad power. Thats the long way. Or do I buy an AQUA tuned EJ20 for 5000$ next summer and be faster than a wrx but slower than an STI. Which do you guys think would be cheaper in the long run? I'm going to be at school too so if I do get the STI short block I wont be able to work on it all the time (not that I really know what I would be doing). But I think if I get the shortblock I'd be able to get the low comp pistons right away and a bigger turbo, somehow get a front mount intercooler and hopefully have somewhere around 600HP when its all said and done for a little more than the AQUA EJ20. You guys are the experts, what would you do?
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Old 07-14-2005, 10:12 AM   #2
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If you knew what you were doing, I'd suggest getting the STi Shortblock if you could find one and building it up if you wish to do so (I'd be happy with some basic mods like UP/DP, Catback, FMIC, and an ECU). With 600hp though, you're also going to need a driveline swap in all likelyhood. I don't believe the stock 5mt will hold NEAR that (I'd be worried if RA gears would even hold it), and I'm not sure about the 4EAT.

Either way, you're going to be looking at a lot of wiring, or need for a good engine management system.
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Old 07-14-2005, 10:17 AM   #3
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you mention "faster than this" "slower than that".
are you racing or something? what kind? best not be on the street.

Perdue has some good ideas to start. I guess you should evaluate what you want to do with the car before you start.
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Old 07-14-2005, 10:31 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamrazor
Perdue has some good ideas to start. I guess you should evaluate what you want to do with the car before you start.
Have to agree with that. Street, track or autox? Daily driven?

Remember that once it's done, you will have maintenance to consider and reliability issues.

Personally if you want a turn key solution, go with a professional install that includes the factory ECU for reliability. Then you can tune it as if it's an STi.

Are there major differences with the WRX and STi blocks? If you're going for mad power, a closed block is your only option. Pistons etc can all be swapped, but the block is your foundation.
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Old 07-14-2005, 07:20 PM   #5
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Daily driver is the plan but I want to be able to take it out to the track for some drags, I dont street race...that's illegal... I dont know if there are any differences between the STI and WRX blocks, I still have alot of research to do. I dont want to end up buying a full front clip if I'm just going to rip it apart to build something better.
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Old 07-14-2005, 07:49 PM   #6
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I would wait to do anything until you get done with school. So what are you going to do with the STI block? Are you going to get a turbo kit? Are you going to be running an STI trany? Even then it will have trouble with 600 hp.

Have you driven an STI? Or even a WRX? 200 whp is nice, 600 is just stupid for a daily driver. I would look into getting a stock STI motor installed. Have a shop that has done the swap do it. Make sure to research the shop that is going to do all the work.
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Old 07-14-2005, 07:51 PM   #7
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Being a student I would recommend you stick with the 2.0 litre block. My reasoning for this is that a turbo 2.5 chuggs gas and it will add up quickly. If you can find a reasonably priced EJ207 or like engine I think that would be ideal.
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Old 07-14-2005, 08:10 PM   #8
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The WRX's and STi's are mad fast factory, and the legacy's only weigh about a 100lb's more, so you will only be slightly slower than the stock imprezas. Like others have said, reliability and maintenance are cost factors to consider. Remember, a 600hp motor can break easy, and when they do, its expensive parts.

You will have to upgrade your brakes too. Going fast is great, but when it comes time to slow down, you better have the gear to do that too.
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Old 07-14-2005, 09:06 PM   #9
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600hp in that old chassis - it'd rip the car apart. Literally. I would concentrate on around 250-280whp, which is the point it'll become damned dangerous without significant suspension and brake upgrades. 250whp in that older car with the lighter body will do significant damage to most vehicles on the road, and won't grenade whatever transmission you put into it instantly.

600hp is also going to be laggy as hell, and not something I would consider driveable on the street, though I know there are die-hards that try. Ross at AVO has his old GC8 STi wagon with a 2.0 making 570hp, and it's an absolute beast. Fun at the dragstrip, though. It's handling that much power with a hand-cut dogbox that costs much more than your initial engine budget, and even that breaks fairly often...

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Old 07-14-2005, 11:33 PM   #10
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Definately would need a tranny/gear upgrade. I broke 2nd gear in a 1990 wagon only putting down 150ish whp.
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Old 07-15-2005, 07:22 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LegacySTI
So I'm going to do an engine swap and depending on which route I go it could be next summer at the earliest or a few years down the road. So here are my thoughts. Should I buy an STI short block for like 1500$ and build it up so when I do put it in I will have mad power. Thats the long way. Or do I buy an AQUA tuned EJ20 for 5000$ next summer and be faster than a wrx but slower than an STI. Which do you guys think would be cheaper in the long run? I'm going to be at school too so if I do get the STI short block I wont be able to work on it all the time (not that I really know what I would be doing). But I think if I get the shortblock I'd be able to get the low comp pistons right away and a bigger turbo, somehow get a front mount intercooler and hopefully have somewhere around 600HP when its all said and done for a little more than the AQUA EJ20. You guys are the experts, what would you do?
What is an AQUA EJ20?

I'm debating the same thing, except I already have a very low mileage USDM EJ20, but I'm wondering if I should buy a STI block and swap the internals.

Or buy a whole STI setup and sell my EJ20.

Part of it is I'd like to have more torque, and the other part is silly I guess. My car badge says 2.5 GT, and I think I'd like to swap a 2.5 for a 2.5.

Last edited by Kraziken; 07-15-2005 at 09:59 AM.
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Old 07-15-2005, 09:00 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LegacySTI
I dont know if there are any differences between the STI and WRX blocks, I still have alot of research to do.

The USDM STi EJ25 block is a semi-closed deck design, while the USDM WRX EJ20 block is an open deck design.

The USDM '91-'94 Legacy Turbo EJ22 block is a fully closed deck
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Old 07-15-2005, 09:57 AM   #13
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[quote=Kraziken]What is an AQUA EJ20?

AUQA is a company in japan that just does subaru stuff. They have an EJ20 that they have tuned, they gave it better rods, pistons, turbo, intercooler and ecu. I puts out 265 and its as expensive as an STI motor.
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Old 07-15-2005, 05:28 PM   #14
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I'd say, turn your car into a Subaru version of the 3000 GT with an H6 and twin turbo setup.
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Old 07-15-2005, 09:06 PM   #15
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Why not get the Tommy K motor, if you are going to get some over priced motor. At least it is a 2.2.
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Old 07-15-2005, 10:36 PM   #16
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The tK *kit* is about 10k, installed. That is on top of the original motor price. Plus it is just a stroker kit, really. For half the money (of the tK kit) you can get a Forester/STi 2.5 shortblock and have it built up, giving you something to make 400hp out of reliably. AVO is doing just that for Super Autobacs (which *owns* tommy kaira) for just that reason.

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Old 07-15-2005, 10:39 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chi_San
I'd say, turn your car into a Subaru version of the 3000 GT with an H6 and twin turbo setup.
PHATsuby is already working on that one
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Old 07-15-2005, 11:36 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AVOjapan
The tK *kit* is about 10k
I was just kidding, I think the TK motor is way over priced.
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Old 07-16-2005, 12:33 AM   #19
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600HP on the cheap??? Your best bet is two 150HP Nitrous systems and a STi engine. Just don't expect it to last more than a race.

Daily Driver?

hahaha

How about a 3.6L Twin Turbo H6 Porsche 500HP or if it needs to be a Subie a 3.3L Twin Turbo or if your really good make a H8 5.0L and turbo or twin turbo it.

But you won't get a daily driver with 600HP without nitrous on the cheap.
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Old 07-16-2005, 01:06 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subiekid
I was just kidding, I think the TK motor is way over priced.
Ah, well, completey agree on that!

Besides, I've driven some of the tK's, and the standard 2.0's with a little good tuning make more power...

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Old 07-16-2005, 05:39 AM   #21
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I never said cheap, I know this is going to take some money to do. And I dont believe in Nitrous, its not worth the damage it does. AVO, tell me more about this engine you're doing. Is it possible to put a Porsche engine into a subaru? That could be an interesting conversion... a Legacy 911
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