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Old 07-15-2005, 06:30 PM   #1
Sandsuby
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Default Megasquirt to Subaru coil pack

I asked this question in another thread mabe I should have asked it here. I am putting together a Megasquirt ECU to run a Jdm EJ20 single turbo engine. I bought a coil pack on Ebay that I was told may have built in igniters. The other Subaru coils I have have a three wire connector on them. This one does not have wires only a built in four wire connector. If it has a built in igniter I could drive it directly with the ECU. What I need to know is what the pin outs are for this coil pack. I do have a igniter from a EJ22 engine that I could use but I still need to know what each pin in the coil connector is for.
I was told this coil pack was off a 2002 engine. It uses three mounting bolts.
The numbers on the coil are:
22433AA410
Diamond
FH0137 12V
9Z28

I hope some one can help me to get on with my project.
Don
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Old 07-16-2005, 07:56 AM   #2
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For an 04' Sti coilpack the pin out is:

Pin1=ECU signal
Pin2=Ground
Pin3=+12V

If you want the Factory Service manual PDF, PM me you email adress.

TMS
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Old 07-16-2005, 10:34 AM   #3
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TMS
Thanks for the reply. This coil pack has four pins. I suspect two of the pins would go to the ECU, another to ignition on 12V and last to ground.
You have a PM.
Don
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Old 07-16-2005, 04:41 PM   #4
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With a little digging around I have found out this coil pack is for a 2000 Impreza 2.5 RS but I still do not know what the pin out is. Any one.
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Old 07-16-2005, 09:48 PM   #5
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pm sent
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Old 07-18-2005, 02:20 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ride5000
pm sent
I went through the manuals you sent me to but only could wire diagram of a engine with COP's. I think I did find out this coil does have built in Igniters.
Still looking for pin out readings.
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Old 07-18-2005, 02:39 PM   #7
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I sent you an email of the wiring for a 2000 RS. LMK if you need it split up.

TMS
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Old 07-18-2005, 03:44 PM   #8
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Thanks TMS
I can get it from there.
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Old 07-18-2005, 04:54 PM   #9
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You can't directly drive Subaru waste-spark coilpacks from a MegaSquirt. The MS only has a single ignition output to run a distributor. You will need to get something along the lines of a Ford EDIS 4 cylinder system to do ignition... or I suppose you might be able to use the EDIS to drive the Subaru waste-spark coilpacks.

If you wanted to use individual coilpacks (coil-on-plug like on the WRX), you would need to use a Ford EDIS 8 cylinder system, as it is basically a 4 plug waste-spark setup.

Keep in mind, using the ignition output from the MS will leave you without the ability to control an idle air solenoid, so you will need to set this with the throttle plate settings instead.
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Old 07-18-2005, 07:13 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8Complex
You can't directly drive Subaru waste-spark coilpacks from a MegaSquirt. The MS only has a single ignition output to run a distributor. You will need to get something along the lines of a Ford EDIS 4 cylinder system to do ignition... or I suppose you might be able to use the EDIS to drive the Subaru waste-spark coilpacks.

If you wanted to use individual coilpacks (coil-on-plug like on the WRX), you would need to use a Ford EDIS 8 cylinder system, as it is basically a 4 plug waste-spark setup.

Keep in mind, using the ignition output from the MS will leave you without the ability to control an idle air solenoid, so you will need to set this with the throttle plate settings instead.
You should check out the MegaSquirt site before making statements like that. There has been a lot of upgrades to the Extra code and MegaSquirt-n-Spark should be a better all a round name for it. You can have at least four ignition outputs. you could keep the idle control and have two ignition outputs, like I may do with this coil pack. I am working on the idea of removing three of the teeth on the crank sensor (4-1) processing the output of the crank sensor into a square wave pulse into the MegaSquirt. I also have EDIS that I may try to use the output of it to drive my COP's two each on each EDIS output. Not sure it will work but i have a lot of backup ideas. Look and read there may be something for you at the MS site.
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Old 07-18-2005, 07:41 PM   #11
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The EDIS 8 is also a bad idea. Subaru WRX has four combustions every 720 degrees of crankshaft rotation. A Ford V8 has eight combustions in the same 720 degrees. If you tried to use EDIS-8 four of ignition sparks would be 90 degrees out of phase.
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Old 07-19-2005, 12:23 AM   #12
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I've done a LOT of research on MegaSquirt systems and I have yet to see a setup that will support more then a single ignition output. Please, do turn me to the documentation for such a setup as I would be very interested in reading about it.

Regarding the EDIS-8 setup, you would need to cut the speed of the crank rotation input in half to make it run properly, then use only one output of each coil at a time. This would output 4 fires per 720 of rotation, all 180 apart... resulting in a direct fire setup. The easy way to do this would be to put the trigger on the cam instead of the crank.
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Old 07-19-2005, 12:50 AM   #13
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Try this link it will keep your eyes busy for awhile.
http://megasquirt.sourceforge.net/extra/

That may work using the EDIS8 off the cam sensor by somehow mounting a 36-1 wheel on on a cam wheel. I understand if the coils do not have the correct impedence the EDIS does not like it and some of its function may not work.
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Old 07-19-2005, 09:50 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandsuby
Try this link it will keep your eyes busy for awhile.
http://megasquirt.sourceforge.net/extra/
Yeah, I've read through that in the past, and I read through it again before posting above. I really didn't see any solution to a direct fire setup other than a highly beta, extremely vague project called Tomtek.

A Megajolt or such units being standalone timing would be one thing, but if you plan on using fuel and timing at the same time, I don't see a decently-tested and documented solution other than a distributor or EDIS.
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Old 07-19-2005, 10:02 AM   #15
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MS is not a plug-n-play system. It is a DIY project and I mean project. If that was not true I would not be here doing a little research. If you are not willing to learn don't go there. All of the MS info is beta but it can be done if you are willing to pull your head out of the sand.
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Old 07-21-2005, 02:29 AM   #16
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Does the megasquirt have dwell adjustments? If not you wont be able to drive coils without some external dwell board.
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Old 07-21-2005, 11:03 AM   #17
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I am not a MS expert and you may have to go to the MS site for a complete answer. The new V3 board that just came out will drive coils directly and also imput a VR signal. The V2.2 requires a add on VR conditioning circuit and the use of igniters. And yes the code in MS has dwell and advance. If the EDIS or HEI system is used the dwell is built into that system. I have a freind running two EJ20 turbo engines one using 20 lb. boost using MS-EDIS. I have not tried to get my engine running yet because I am missing a few parts for it and the 4EAT tranny connected to it is being rebuilt. This engine will use EDIS and I am hoping to keep the COPs. Until recently there has not been much work done on engines if it did not have a distribitor. With the EXTRA code in MS things have changed for the DIY guys.

BTW
I am running two sandrails with WRX EJ20 engines. I am using the Link ECU for both of them. One of the engines has built in igniters in the COPs and I am driving them in a wasted spark directly from the Link. The other engine I am driving the COPs with two cheap easy to find Subaru igniters. MS will do the same with about one third the dollars.

Last edited by Sandsuby; 07-21-2005 at 12:12 PM.
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Old 07-23-2005, 02:28 AM   #18
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this is linuxman51 from turbobricks.com/msefi/aspeed/etc (swine left his name logged on)

If one uses the two trigger inputs you've got 4 available ignition outputs using any of the extra firmware versions that have been released since, mm feb. iirc. With a single trigger wheel you have up to three ignition outputs, so on a boxer 4 subie motor you'd use two in a wasted spark configuration.

It has dwell control in the spark tuning software, so that wont be an issue, and I read somewhere in the thread that the coils have built in ignitors, so if you could come up with the two trigger input setup you'd be set in terms of triggering, as the ms will trigger ignitiors directly, just not coils.

the V 3.0 PCB is a cleanup with some nice added features such as an onboard VR input, a single coil driver, the flyback mods for pwm'ing with low-z injectors, and some other cleanup items.

If you were going to go with edis, I would go with edis-4, however given the layout of a subaru bay, I dont think I'd wanna use that, perhaps just the trigger wheel from a edis equiped ford.
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Old 07-23-2005, 12:38 PM   #19
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One of the advantages with EDIS is all the suport. They have been installed on many types of engines and the system is proven. Just using the EDIS 36-1 wheel without the modual means that the VR sensor signal has to be conditioned into a square wave. The new V3 MS will do that. For a much harder but much cleaner set up, setting up a 4-1 wheel in the decoder wheel software. That would mean removing the timing belt crank pulley and removing three teeth. The stock VR sensor would be used therefore cleaner. I don't think this has been done but the MS guru says it is posible. There just has not been much work done with the VR conditioning yet. With the new V3 upgrade that will change very soon.

Megasquirt is open source. If someone could or would write code into the extra software for the TWO SUBARU vr sensors. It could be a very near plug and play.

Last edited by Sandsuby; 07-23-2005 at 01:22 PM.
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Old 07-23-2005, 01:48 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandsuby
One of the advantages with EDIS is all the suport. They have been installed on many types of engines and the system is proven. Just using the EDIS 36-1 wheel without the modual means that the VR sensor signal has to be conditioned into a square wave. The new V3 MS will do that. For a much harder but much cleaner set up, setting up a 4-1 wheel in the decoder wheel software. That would mean removing the timing belt crank pulley and removing three teeth. The stock VR sensor would be used therefore cleaner. I don't think this has been done but the MS guru says it is posible. There just has not been much work done with the VR conditioning yet. With the new V3 upgrade that will change very soon.

Megasquirt is open source. If someone could or would write code into the extra software for the TWO SUBARU vr sensors. It could be a very near plug and play.
mm this is also not true, the vr conditioner stuff has been at the forefront of ms development since last october or so, you have a couple of options as far as VR pickup circuits, I've had 50/50 luck with the lm 1815N circuit, it spazed out on a volvo i tried to use it on, but works great on a honda i installed it on the other day. the alternative is the V3 vr conditioner circuit, the schematic for that is floating around on megasquirt.info, its supposed to work quite well. Once you get the conditioner figured out you're set.
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Old 07-23-2005, 03:24 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swine
mm this is also not true, the vr conditioner stuff has been at the forefront of ms development since last october or so, you have a couple of options as far as VR pickup circuits, I've had 50/50 luck with the lm 1815N circuit, it spazed out on a volvo i tried to use it on, but works great on a honda i installed it on the other day. the alternative is the V3 vr conditioner circuit, the schematic for that is floating around on megasquirt.info, its supposed to work quite well. Once you get the conditioner figured out you're set.
You are a deeper into MS than I am at present. But I am wondering what is "also not true". I was refering to work that has been done on the EJ series engines. I have not read where anyone has used both vr sensors. A lot of work should mean you would get better results than 50/50.
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Old 07-24-2005, 02:34 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandsuby
You are a deeper into MS than I am at present. But I am wondering what is "also not true". I was refering to work that has been done on the EJ series engines. I have not read where anyone has used both vr sensors. A lot of work should mean you would get better results than 50/50.
Well at the moment you're riding on 100% failure due to non attempt, so 50% success puts me quite a bit ahead of where you are...
Its quite simple really, the one circuit i tried worked really well on one car, and not so well on another (for any number of possible reasons i never bothered to investigate).

With the dual lm input circuit that dozens of people are successfully using cop and wasted spark on v8's with the 2nd input option in the extra code. the alternative is a pair of V3 tach input circuits, or if its a low enough tooth count you could go down to autozone and get a pair of gm HEI modules and let rip with that..

In order to get this stuff to work you're going to have to realize that there isnt anything inheirantly special about a subie 4 cylinder other than it fits in the engine bay funny, once you get past that its all easy.
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Old 10-03-2005, 07:18 PM   #23
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Don't know if it's a good idea to bring up this old thread, but what the hell...

Just bump into this Megasquirt project, if I understand correctly, they currently don't have the code to decode the stock Subaru Crank wheel, nor do they support sequential injection, but there is a way to adapt the Ford 36-1 wheel and run Megasquirt-EDIS to drive the stock coil?
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Old 10-03-2005, 08:55 PM   #24
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As of now there is no code to work with Subaru cam and Crank wheels. But there may be several ways to go with EJxx and MS. The version three board has built in out puts to power the coils and it can also read the VR sensor. Also if I understand it correctly it can read a second VR sensor. So the Ford EDIS may not be the only way to go but has the most support.
MS II is a add on board and it may be able to handle the sequential injection.
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Old 10-03-2005, 10:00 PM   #25
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I think it only has 2 injector drivers, and I don't think it uses the Cam sensor (which is needed for group/partial sequential injection). You shouldn't need a 2nd VR sensor - the way I read the firmware, it detects the zero crossing of the crank sensor and act accordingly. It seems that the EJ251 (NA 2.5RS, Legacy and such) uses a 6 tooth wheel (3 for each bank), at 97* BTDC, 65* BTDC, and 10* BTDC, while the rest of the EJs uses a crank wheel marked every 10* with a short gap between Cyl 4 and 1 as well as between Cyl 3 and 2, and a long gap between Cyl 1 and 3 as well as between Cyl 2 and 4. I wonder how hard it be for someone who knows what they are doing to code that detection algorithm
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