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Old 07-04-2005, 05:08 AM   #1
ripvw
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Default TireRack Yokohama Neova test results in

did a quick search - didn't see this posted anywhere else yet:

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...neova_ad07.jsp

Uh...WOW!
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Old 07-04-2005, 06:29 AM   #2
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The braking difference between the kumho is about 6 feet wet or dry, and the cornering stability is gapped a bit as well.

But for half the cost the Kumho is clearly the better choice for most. In nearly all the testing the Yoko only exceeded by .3 Now .3 difference isn't worth 100 or more dollars.

In addition for note of bias... I'm on my second set of Yoko's Avid V4's and happy with overall performance vs. value.

I'm looking to go Kumho for my SOLO II and track sessions on a 17 inch wheel.


One last note... do these tires come in a size for WRX doesn't seem.
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Old 07-04-2005, 07:13 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bundyboyz
One last note... do these tires come in a size for WRX doesn't seem.
Neova:
225/45x17 - tested size, fits on 17x7,17x7.5 and 17x8
235/40x17 - 17x8,17x8.5
245/40x17 - ditto
255/40x17 - 17x8.5
225/40x18 - 18x7.5,18x8

MX:
205/55x16 - fits stock 16x6.5
225/50x16 - ditto, along with 16x7,16x8
215/45x17 - fits on 17x7,17x7.5
225/45x17 - tested size, fits on 17x7,17x7.5 and 17x8
245/40x17 - 17x8,17x8.5
255/40x17 - 17x8.5
225/40x18 - 18x7.5,18x8

to each his own, but .45 seconds advantage per lap in the dry and 1.31 seconds advantage per lap in the wet is HUGE. the Neova's price in 235/40x17 @ $185 each is not that bad - cheaper than the PS2 and S03
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Old 07-04-2005, 07:44 AM   #4
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cool thanks for posting the tire sizes.

Auto-X is one thing but a half second is something most can make up for in driver trainning/experience not and extra 85 dollars or more a tire.

Sure if you think your at the top of your game then it might be worth it. But just about everyone I know would, would prefer two sets of kumho's to one set of these. (that's generalized) Sure there is a difference but learning to make two apex's better/right can make up that .5 second.

Not trying to be bitter I think this is good discussion. Although I'm pretty certain most would agree that the price to performance the Kumho makes much more sense.

Remember I've never had a Kumho I'm on my second set of Yoko's and love them.
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Old 07-05-2005, 12:37 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bundyboyz
cool thanks for posting the tire sizes.

Auto-X is one thing but a half second is something most can make up for in driver trainning/experience not and extra 85 dollars or more a tire.

Sure if you think your at the top of your game then it might be worth it. But just about everyone I know would, would prefer two sets of kumho's to one set of these. (that's generalized) Sure there is a difference but learning to make two apex's better/right can make up that .5 second.
I don't know. I think a lot of people would view potentially shaving 1.3 seconds off their lap time for under $400 as a pretty good deal. This review makes a pretty solid argument in favor of the Yokes for the track.
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Old 07-05-2005, 06:39 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HerculesPeanut
I don't know. I think a lot of people would view potentially shaving 1.3 seconds off their lap time for under $400 as a pretty good deal. This review makes a pretty solid argument in favor of the Yokes for the track.


....and then, some people are still on the re-92's and don't think they are too bad....
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Old 07-05-2005, 07:59 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Scotty
....and then, some people are still on the re-92's and don't think they are too bad....

Thats because they suck and cant tell the difference......
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Old 07-05-2005, 09:24 AM   #8
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There was a test done in the latest Grassroots Motorsports mag that had the 615 on top followed by the 215 with the Neova coming in 3rd. The MX came in 5th behind the new kooks RS2's.

Rather biased test results when Tire rack doesn't include the top performers.
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Old 07-05-2005, 09:33 AM   #9
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This doesn't make a solid case at all. It shows that you could have almost two sets of tires for the price of one, and that if you paid for the these new tires you'd only save .5 seconds per lap.

Unless you've been tracking and SOLO II for quiet a few years, it's nearly pointless to buy these tires.

Note the Kumho are no where near the best, I'm not saying that. For this kind of money I am willing to bet there are better tires then these Yoko's.

Indeed this test doesn't include any top performers. And I don't see how you can say anything mentioned is under 400.00
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Old 07-06-2005, 03:50 PM   #10
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imho, the new hankook is the better "bang for the buck"

imho, a half second advantage when autox'ing is huge

I agree, I would feel better about the tirerack's opinions on these tires if they also sold the hankooks and the falkens.

imho, the re-92 serves a purpose
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Old 07-06-2005, 04:00 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bundyboyz
This doesn't make a solid case at all. It shows that you could have almost two sets of tires for the price of one, and that if you paid for the these new tires you'd only save .5 seconds per lap.

Unless you've been tracking and SOLO II for quiet a few years, it's nearly pointless to buy these tires.

Note the Kumho are no where near the best, I'm not saying that. For this kind of money I am willing to bet there are better tires then these Yoko's.

Indeed this test doesn't include any top performers. And I don't see how you can say anything mentioned is under 400.00

OK, I admit I am not an expert at this type of racing so anyone please tell me. If the Yokes cost $400 more than the (insert cheap but good brand here, hankook, falken, whatever) then tell me what $400 upgrade would help anyone cut more than 1.3 seconds off a lap.
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Old 07-06-2005, 04:03 PM   #12
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I should also state that I really do appreciate what tirerack has done and does for us auto enthusiasts, the volume of information on their website is invaluable.

btw. I'm now campaigning these tires (the Yokes). So far so good!

HerculesPeanut, I think he might of misread your post

Last edited by DougM; 07-06-2005 at 04:06 PM. Reason: splelling
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Old 07-06-2005, 04:06 PM   #13
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Hello.

1/2 second is huge on a 1/3 mile track.
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Old 07-07-2005, 11:12 PM   #14
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It's .5 seconds a lap. Saved with these Yoko tires.

Now there is all kinds of classes (DS, STS SM) obviously for this money personally I'd go R-compound... but that doesn't suit some people's autox class.

For the extra 400 you spend on these tires you could get a lot of track time, and driving training is going to help you save .5 a lot better then a tire. Unless you are a seasoned veteran these tires are not worth the price compared to the Kumho (Two sets of tires are much better then one)

Also if your a seasoned driver you know for this money there are much better tires... AKA top performers not carried by tire rack.

... note I love tire rack have 2 sets of tires from them.

Can anyone honestly say that a half second can't be made up with 400 dollars worth of track/auto x time. My emphasis is on driving skill vs. buying this tire that you won't see the benefit from unless your a pro.
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Old 07-08-2005, 08:03 AM   #15
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Agree^^^ $400 spent on autox would get me approx 20 events ~ 100-120 runs. That is a whole season of autox for me. I would get much more out of that time and money then I would spending the extra $400 on those tires.
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Old 07-08-2005, 08:57 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bundyboyz
Can anyone honestly say that a half second can't be made up with 400 dollars worth of track/auto x time. My emphasis is on driving skill vs. buying this tire that you won't see the benefit from unless your a pro.
Fine. By your logic, no one should ever upgrade their WRX because the money could be spent practicing. No UP, no DP, no TB, stick with the RE92s (yeah they'll cost you a second or two but that can be made up for after a years autocrossing), forget the suspension mods, no reflash. Sure your car will be faster but that money could be spent on training and practice so why do it?

I get it now, practice practice practice. That's going to be a tough sell around here my friend.
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Old 07-08-2005, 09:38 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HerculesPeanut
Fine. By your logic, no one should ever upgrade their WRX because the money could be spent practicing. No UP, no DP, no TB, stick with the RE92s (yeah they'll cost you a second or two but that can be made up for after a years autocrossing), forget the suspension mods, no reflash. Sure your car will be faster but that money could be spent on training and practice so why do it?

I get it now, practice practice practice. That's going to be a tough sell around here my friend.

They are talking about using the tire for autocrossing, which you should know is mainly the driver. So, practice is the main thing, and for those who are serious about auto-x, it is a very easy sell because they know what it is all about.

So, with that said if you are looking at these tires just for autocross then you are better off buying the Falken Rt-615 and RT-215. BOTH beat out the yokohama in the recent GRM test, and BOTH are significantly cheaper than the yokos.

Size 225/45-17
Yoko - $175.00 tirerack.com
RT-615 - $155.00 tires.com
RT-215 - $110.00 tires.com

The money saved on the RT-615 alone could net you at least 3-4 more events to race in. The new Hankook 212's are even cheaper ($105 I believe), so there is even more bang for your buck.
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Old 07-08-2005, 10:38 AM   #18
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The way it was put to me when I started autox'ing was essentially this: don't bother upgrading your 'stuff' until you exceed the ultimate performance of the stuff you already have. I have tried to do that... not always successfully b/c I'm a sucker for 'cool parts'...

So, if you're really exceeding the grip of your tires, consistently, then upgrade.

W/RE-92's, it's not that hard to exceed their max grip, but I've seen some guys go pretty fast on 'em once they're worn a bit (and with like 47lbs air in 'em).

The litmus test is to let someone you know is a -good- driver take a lap or two in your car, if they're significantly faster than you are... you need to work on your driving skills still and not parts-upgrades.


<---- still has a LOT of work to do on driving skill! (likely always will! )
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Old 07-08-2005, 12:32 PM   #19
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I think we often fall into the belief that just because we are not good enough to take full advantage of performance enhancements, we will not realize any benefit at all. For example: If a professional driver can complete a course in 60 seconds with a stock car and 59 with upgrade X, then I (who needs 90 seconds to complete the same course with stock car) would not be able to realize that 1 second improvement.

I dissagree with this assumption. I may see that 1 second improvement, I may see a 5 second improvement as it is just the thing to compensate for my particular weakness or it may actually take me longer as it exacerbates my problems. The point is that we have seen a potentially dramatic improvement between the Neova and the MX (a popular favorite around here). Does it guarantee a .5 to 1.3 second drop in times? No. Does it show some significant and measurable improvement? Yes. Is it relatively cheap? Well, in a market including $1300 turbobacks and $1600 BBKs and even $700 reflashes, I think the answer is yes.

Don't misinterptet. I agree, practice and skill is the most important thing. It is also something you can't buy and have installed in minutes. In a perfect world, we'd have both. If you are truly running bone stock, this thread probably isn't really meant for you. You have to admit that much (most?) of NASIOC is geared toward the modder and for them, this is probably a pretty intriguing option.
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Old 07-08-2005, 01:18 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HerculesPeanut
You have to admit that much (most?) of NASIOC is geared toward the modder and for them, this is probably a pretty intriguing option.
intriguingly overpriced

Size 225/45-17
Yoko - $175.00 tirerack.com
RT-615 - $155.00 tires.com
RT-215 - $110.00 tires.com
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Old 07-08-2005, 01:22 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bundyboyz
intriguingly overpriced

Size 225/45-17
Yoko - $175.00 tirerack.com
RT-615 - $155.00 tires.com
RT-215 - $110.00 tires.com
initial price isn't the only thing to consider .... and we do not know how any of the tires will do with alot of miles or even a wear comparison yet ... what if the Yoko lasts 3 times longer?
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Old 07-08-2005, 02:29 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke@tirerack
initial price isn't the only thing to consider .... and we do not know how any of the tires will do with alot of miles or even a wear comparison yet ... what if the Yoko lasts 3 times longer?

True, but with these tires being the hot tires for the ST classes they are getting a lot of testing and reviews from the autocrossers. Much more than a normal high performance tire. So far, the new Falkens have had good reviews and most already know about the old Falkens. Some how I seriously doubt the Yokos will last 3 times or even 2 times longer. All depends on the driver, car setup and use.
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Old 07-08-2005, 03:22 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke@tirerack
initial price isn't the only thing to consider .... and we do not know how any of the tires will do with alot of miles or even a wear comparison yet ... what if the Yoko lasts 3 times longer?

wow a tire that would last 3 times longer... tirerack must hire just about anybody
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Old 07-09-2005, 02:48 AM   #24
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I'm not sure where any of you guys learned to do your math. There's been a number of people throwing out "the $400 I would save" and "two sets of tires for the price of one". Look at the prices, kids - $175 for the Yokos in 225/45-17 (the tested size, and a pretty popular Subaru size) vs. $135 for the MXs in the same size. So, $40 x 4 = $400? And $175 is double $135? Even the other tires mentioned don't match up to the numbers that are being thrown around.

Note that I'm not mentioning the Falkens or Hankooks, because that's not what the point of this thread was. ripvw posted the results of a test comparing the Advan Neova to two well-proven ST class performers.

I think HerculesPeanut's last post hit the nail on the head. The argument that a less-than-perfect auto-x driver wouldn't be able to extract enough performance from the Yokos to make it worth the money is a completely speculative, groundless, unprove-able argument.

I also think Luke makes an excellent point. I've never run Falken Azenises (Azeni? Azenes? ), but the impression I've gotten is they're relatively loud, not the best in the wet, and I've seen guys having to wet them down between 40sec auto-x runs to keep them cool . Meanwhile the Advan Neovas scored the best overall road rating (besting even the cushy Eagle RS-As) and seem to go like hell wet or dry. Who knows, maybe they don't overheat at the drop of a hat, too! Sounds good to me. So maybe there are things the Yokos are better at that make them worth the extra money, hmmmm? Maybe there are reasons that Michelin PS2s cost more than Bridgestone RE750s, which cost more than Fuzion ZRis, which cost more than Pepboys Futura Zs? Nah, couldn't be, the only thing we must consider is raw, dry weather grip! Everything else is silly!!

I've browsed through a lot of Tire Rack's tire test reports, and I don't think I've ever seen such a pronounced difference between tested tires before. Since the Advan Neova has proven itself (in this test atleast) to be a pretty damn good tire in the wet, I'd be interested in seeing another test against other, proven wet performers - the PS2 and Goodyear F1GS-D3, for instance.

Pat Olsen
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Running ECSTA MXs on his Mustang, and has never owned Yoko street tires before...

Last edited by Patrick Olsen; 07-09-2005 at 02:55 AM. Reason: To add more details
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Old 07-09-2005, 07:10 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Olsen
...Since the Advan Neova has proven itself (in this test atleast) to be a pretty damn good tire in the wet, I'd be interested in seeing another test against other, proven wet performers - the PS2 and Goodyear F1GS-D3, for instance...[/i]
me too...

however, regarding the "$400 question", I just visited TireRack's site and I'm seeing MX's @ $135 each and Neova's @ $225 each in 225/45x17. The Neova's are much more competive pricewise in some other sizes such as the 235/40x17 I quoted above.

with regards to the Neova's 3rd place finish behind the Falken ST-615 and ST-215 in the Grassroots Motorsports test, according to the info in this thread that test was run with shaved tires:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...ght=grassroots

the test was conducted by Grassroots Motorsports at TireRack's facility, by the way...

the results could be very different at full tread depth - I'd be willing to bet the Neova and ST-615 would be neck and neck.

Finally, regarding any "disappointment" that TireRack doesn't run a test including tires they don't sell, such as Toyos and Falkens - they are not an independent testing facility - they are a retailer. It serves no purpose for them to test tires they do not sell, nor do I expect Toyo and Falken would be very happy to read about their tires being tested by TireRack in a comparison test (unless of course, they won) - it would likely be lawsuit time.

If you want to see Toyos, Falkens and Hankooks tested, don't rant against TireRack - write Discount Tire and Edge Racing and other retailers of those brands and ask them where their test results are. They can rent out a race track and run tests if they wanted to - but that would require a level of commitment to the customer - and the "truth" - that they just don't have.

Even better, send emails to Car & Driver, Road & Track and other US auto magazines and ask them why they don't run comparison tests on tires anymore. The answer, of course is someone from the advertising department caved in to the pressure from the tire manufacturers and ordered the testing stopped. No guts - no story.

Thank God for the European magazines who still have the guts to rent out the Continental and Goodyear test tracks here in Texas - as well as other tracks overseas - and run comparison tests on dozens of tires. That's the only way we ever found out how a Toyo T1S really compares to the Falken FK451 or Goodyear GSD3. And thank God for TireRack for testing most of the tires they do sell and for being willing to rent out their facilities to Grassroot Motorsports and others. Not to mention hosting the Cannonball One Lap of America series - run on unshaved tires, by the way. Until now, it was typically won by a Corvette running Goodrich KD's.

Somehow, I think a lot of next year's competitors in the Cannonball will be running on Neova's instead...
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