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Old 08-12-2001, 04:20 AM   #1
popnGEAR
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Default Got my first vehicle inspection notice.

Well on the way to Rush tonight, I ran into a roadblock just after the Bridgeport Road exit after Knight St. Bridge. I was asked to pull over and the cop inspected my car, let me go for not having my N, and gave me the VI for widened exhaust outlet. I didn't know it was illegal to have a larger than stock exhaust, thought it was just the decibal rating that mattered. Does anyone know where I can read up about this? Got 10 days to resolve this.
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Old 08-12-2001, 04:32 AM   #2
T-REX
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Thats why I never go that way to richmond. They are always there!

I usually take Bridgeport East, then circle around to wherever I need to go.
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Old 08-12-2001, 04:38 AM   #3
5 Zigen
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are u serious? road block on knight bridge?

i usually take HWY 91....but if i don't remember wrong usually at mid night bridge will have traffic jam coz of car accident or sth....
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Old 08-12-2001, 04:42 AM   #4
popnGEAR
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not on the bridge, just a little further down on the bridgeport west exit.
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Old 08-12-2001, 04:54 AM   #5
5 Zigen
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around IKEA u meant?

oh man....lots of mod car around over weekend's midnight...that's why they are there?!
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Old 08-12-2001, 05:01 AM   #6
popnGEAR
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yep guess that includes me

btw, who's BRP RS was at Rush? white i-club stickers on rear passenger windows.
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Old 08-12-2001, 05:41 AM   #7
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The road block was to catch possible impaired drivers...

WK
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Old 08-12-2001, 05:53 AM   #8
T-REX
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Ahh!, White Knight is back!

Cool, haven't seen you around much! Still lurking in the background?

Glad to see ya around these parts again.
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Old 08-12-2001, 06:00 AM   #9
White_Knight
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Smile

Thanks.
If any of the Subaru folks have questions about the BC Motor Vehicle Act, I will do my best to answer them.

And please don't attend any of the street races as Richmond has a zero tolerance policy on this topic.

WK

PS:
I test drove a new WRX sedan and was impressed. In a number of years, I may consider one - maybe even the wagon.

I felt boost was limited in 1st and 2nd, but 3rd gear was quite good.

I have been reading about a number of interior related quality problems as well as paint problems. I am very picky about paint. I hope problems clear in it's second year of production.
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Old 08-12-2001, 06:21 AM   #10
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Hi WK,

Dont have to worry about the boys/gals on this board, we are all pretty smart people. Street racing is just stupid.

I've actually got a question for you. When does the decision come about if 2 parties are "street racing"? I recently received a warning about this. I was speeding a bit, maybe + 17kms on the highway going 97kms, and the officer accused me of racing the fellow in the other lane. I swear I wasn't, we were just speeding together. I guess he believed me, and let me on with a warning. To quote him:" If I ever catch you pulling a stunt like this on MY Highway again, Im gonna bust you down hard" hehe... sorry, it was funny, I tried very hard not to grin. So, is it up to the officer to judge if you were speeding? or are there guidelines that they follow? say if they were driving aggressivley through traffic? weaving and such?
Im confused.


As for the WRX:
The paint has been poor for a while now (even on the 2.5RS), I doubt it will be cleared up in the WRX second run. I guess all we can do is complain more to the dealers when we come across problems as they come.

As for the interior. What do you mean? What kind of problems? Its not the prettiest in the world, but its functional

Ive got my WRX on order for a late August delivery, I hope NOT to see you anytime soon
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Old 08-12-2001, 07:39 AM   #11
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Imprez,

A large part of what would be classified as "racing" is based on duration and observation. Also it would depend on the volume of traffic ahead, danger to other parties, residential vs. highway etc...

In most jurisdications in regards to people caught racing, it is no longer a ticket. It's a free trip to speak with the judge and minimum of a licence suspension. It's not worth doing especially if you value your vehicle or if you require it for work/school.

Driving aggressively through traffic would be a different case, but there is no golden rule for evaluation. I guess it boils down to experience etc...

WK
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Old 08-12-2001, 09:17 AM   #12
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popnGEAR:
I was the BRP RS at Rush... I noticed your car and the i-Club stickers too... but you posted before I did.
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Old 08-12-2001, 10:10 AM   #13
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VI=inspection ticket which you have to bring your car to a shop for inspect?
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Old 08-12-2001, 11:34 AM   #14
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Sandy ...yes.......that's what that meant

Acutally what is the rules of changing mufflers? Is it actually you can't mod any mufflers at all? Because i am thinking of getting a apexi N1 ........but i don't know anything about the law one mufflers........Sound? sizes?
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Old 08-12-2001, 12:21 PM   #15
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White Knight:

I have a question in regards to exhausts.

I work with RCMP on a daily basis, and have asked them for clarification on the exhaust situation.

Straight from the Motor Vehicle Act Regulations:

Muffler
7.03
1. A motor vehicle propelled by an internal combustion engine shall be equipped with an exhaust muffler consisting of a series of pipes or chambers which ensures that the exhaust gases from the engine are cooled and expelled without excessive noise.

(o.k... excessive noise is defined in section 27, under Table 3, and light duty vehicles are 83 db... HOWEEVER it states in the paragraph just before the table, "When tested in an inspection station, the vehicle engine, any auxiliary engine, and exhaust level shall not exceed Table 3 Standards".

SO..... where do you test for noise ? Does the Motor Vehicles Branch have a noise testing station ? What criteria do they use. (ALL noise testing has criteria, including distance, dB levels, humidity, etc. These are scientific tests, and require baselines to verify. Factors such as Humidity can play a HUGE role in noise levels...as known by any sound engineer)

2. The RCMP are ticketing people for having AFTERMARKET exhaust systems that are designed for their vehicles. WHERE in the Regulations does it state this is illegal ?!!!

In section 7.03, it only goes over Cut-Outs prohibited

(2) No person shall drive or operate a motor vehicle propelled by an internal combustion engine when the muffler with which the vehicle is equipped is cut out or disconnected from the engine.

People are not cutting out the muffler, they are replacing it entirely with new systems from the cat-back.

OR

Part removal prohibited

(3) No person shall drive or operate a motor vehicle propelled by an internal combustion engine equipped with a muffler from which has been removed any baffle plates or other part.


Again, people are not MODIFYING their mufflers...they are changing them completely.

Aleration prohibited

(4) No person shall drive or operate a motor vehicle propelled by an internal combustion engine equipped with a muffler the exhaust outlet of which has been opened or widened.

NOW....is this where you are nailing people ? Question though.... aftermarket Japanese mufflers are just that....aftermarket. They are manufactured this way, not opened or widened.



By defination, (4) implies that the person "modifies" the existing muffler no ?

AND, what if a person runs a silencer in their muffler which has the exhaust outlet the same size as the inlet pipes.... Even though their outer dimension of the tip may be 5", their actual outlet inner diameter may be 2.5"...what the OEM exhaust size would be. Is THIS still considered illegal ?

Are the RCMP aware of the aftermarket muffler debate going on in the US from the aftermarket manufactures and SEMA ? I think California is re-vising their laws on aftermarket exhausts and mufflers right now.


PDM
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Old 08-12-2001, 02:49 PM   #16
White_Knight
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I probably field more questions about exhaust/mufflers than anything, so here goes... Domestic vehicles and motorcycles run into the same problems, but for our purposes here, we will refer to import style systems.

In reagrds to mufflers/exhausts, they can be broken down to several categories:

1) sound level - whereby inspectors with certification with sound level meters can test for the sound level for a muffler. Some (not all) police traffic units are certified for this and will use a sound decibal meter.

Sound level is heightened by the removal of catalytic convertor(s) and the inclusion of some sort of intake box.

2) size - this is easy if the exhaust is "grapefruit" sized, but many N1 mufflers are actually smaller than stock. Usually if the muffler/exhaust you purchase has a small hole at the bottom for attaching a silencer to it, it's a good bet the exhaust is too loud or else they wouldn't make a silencer for it. N1 exhaust is circuit racing exhaust for a series in Japan. That's where it belongs - on a circuit. I have also seen alot of large "tip" only exhausts as the owner could not afford buying the entire muffler, or large tipped based exhausts from HKS, Greddy, ... The alteration prohibited clause can fit here.

3) type - Apex N1. 5-Zigen Fireball, or any canister type muffler is missing alot of the baffling there for the reduction in actual size and increased flow characteristics and hence it's canister shape.

When the Motor Vehicle Act refers to the word "modifiy," it can include to meaning of changing/or replacing. Your example of MVAR 7.03 can refer to this. Part removal applies here as well. The manufacturer of the muffler has already removed the baffling for you.

The alteration clause you mentioned, is probably the most used one. True, some aftermarket exhaust is designed for your car, but by in large, most mufflers are universal and are modified to fit a number of cars.

The Motor Vehicle Act and it's regs are set up with a high degree of lattitude regarding interpretation. That's is why it is often a very powerful.

When purchasing exhausts/mufflers, refer to the small print at the bottom of your reciept. In small print it will usually say "products sold are for off-road or racing use only." There is a reason why the shop puts a liability clause like that.

I hope this helps.

WK
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Old 08-12-2001, 03:32 PM   #17
5 Zigen
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Welcome Back White_Knight and thanks for answering our question...

but i just have a few confusion in mind:

Quote:
The road block was to catch possible impaired drivers...
As you might have noticed, people who raced on the road are based on their MIND....but not their vehicle....what I meant is IF they want to race, they can race even if they are driving a courtesy car (Tercel, Corolla, Civic, Neon, etc)....in which they are completely stock and not ready for race....

and that could also be their vehicle made back in early 90s or even 80s....some people (or MOST??) who owned a vehicle older than 10 years would have LEAST care about their vehicle's condition and might consider anyway CHEAP to repair the vehicle....which the vehicle is not safe to go fast as well....

there are also people who are influence by movie or friends....and choose to get NOS for their engine....as that is CHEAP (hp gain VS price) and engine can have instant power gain as soon as they press a button....personally i think this particular mod is way diff than any others such as installing exhaust, in which ppl are going into LOOK and SOUND ....

sometimes i think cars who go to night drags at mid nights deserve to get VI....especially those who are frequent attended "racers"....

but for those who modified their car just because they love their car....wants to spend some money onto it to make it looks nice....do they deserve to get VI? i guess that really depends....

so how do officer based on hanging out VI?

i have a friend who has just a big tip on his "aftermarket" exhaust (why i stated "aftermarket" is because the stock one is all rusted and he replaced w/ some "aftermarket" unit and welded a bigger tip onto that muffler because it doesn't come w/ any => it's universal....u can check w/ UAP/NAPA or Lordco they do have some muffler like that)....

the exhaust is so quiet yet he got a VI for widened muffler....in which the universal muffler is actually smaller than stock and the tip isn't even that big....stock comes w/ dual tip and he replaced w/ one bigger single tip which is about 2" or sth....compare to most of the other exhaust i doubt that's big....

and about the sound decibal meter....i believe the RMD RCMP has one....last time my friend w/ a stock exhaust was asked to rev to about 4000rpm and they are measuring the sound level....i dunno if they are testing the machine for what stock has to be but that makes us kinda worry about how officer will consider if they have to test ur car or not....

that car is only a 4 door sedan w/ body kit (nothing big like veilside)....and he doesn't have any intake so there couldn't be any noise except regular engine revving....

thx for ur patient for reading such a long msg....not being offence to any decision officers come up w/ is just officers are human....laws are "dead"....so that depends on how officer put them in each situation....
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Old 08-12-2001, 03:36 PM   #18
5 Zigen
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Sandy: there are 3 ways officers can pick on a car that they found sth is not illegal to have....

1st: fine....on whatever they have picked => ie. white turn signals, tinted windows, etc....

2nd: VI => bring the vehicle to a designated facility for safety inspection....

3rd: bring the vehicle to any RCMP office after the mentioned parts have been removed....show the officer on duty and if he/she is oki then they will put that in file and u are oki to go....u don't have to do VI at any facility anymore....
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Old 08-12-2001, 05:19 PM   #19
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5 Zigen:

I apreciate your comments. I just wanted to provide general information. I cannot read the minds of other officers that inspect vehicles. Generally, the most knowledgeable officers are traffic officers. They deal with this sort of thing on a regular basis and their experience allows for the best "answers" as it were.

I used to run an "Ask White Knight" forum on importclassifieds.com and it kind of got out of hand because it became a forum to rag on the police. Nobody asked to do the forum, but I chose to do it to try and help enthusiasts. Unfortunately, many people started asking the same questions over and over and not searching the archives for a possible answer that may have already been covered several times over.

VI's are issued on a case by case basis. When I issue one, I will to talk to the owner and explain everything. I am happy to answer any questions while doing the inspection.

Back to your example with the large exhaust being quiet, by in large turbocharged cars will be quieter by virtue of their design. I've examined Supra TT's with huge exhaust but quiet exhaust. The Motor Vehicle Act is flexible enough to handle a variety of situations.

With street racing (including vehicles participating or spectating), there is a zero tolerance policy. If you are there, I will scrutinize your vehicle right down to if you have battery tie downs. My job is to deter you from coming there any further. I would rather do that then have to come to your door in the middle of the night and notify your next of kind that something terrible has happened. The more bad press this behavior gets, the more pressure is placed on police.

Road blocks serve alot of different purposes:
- illegal drug useage
- impairment
- stolen property including vehicles
- contraventions of the Motor Vehicle Act
- intelligence gathering
- deterring criminal activity in a specific area (e.g., B&Es)
- and more...

WK
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Old 08-12-2001, 06:38 PM   #20
T-REX
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Default Don't you sleep? :)

Hey WK,

How would you like to start something like the "Ask White Knight" thread again? I used to read it on Import Classifieds, but as you said, there were quite a few immature people there that ruined what you tried to help with.

If you would like to help us out here with a thread like that, Im sure it would be greatly appreciated. I will be willing to help you moderate it, and answer questions if questions have already been asked. Kind of like a White Knight FAQ

-
Terry
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Old 08-12-2001, 06:53 PM   #21
5 Zigen
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thx for ur reply WK....

i agreed w/ ur example about the Supra u inspected....and every VI ticket given out is based on case by case....

about the VI or vehicle being towed at the scene of Night Drag....like i said before they are more likely deserved than any others....

u can see some "rice" boy w/ clear corners, blue or green marker light bulbs or signals, dancing Neon lights driving like nuts on the way to every single location....they just have been participated in a very dangerous manner....they think they are cool and all that...in which honestly they ain't....


i just have some off-topic questions for ya...

do u read these msg boards and answers questions coz u are asked to? which means u got paid to do it at office hours (ur working time) or u do this for us after work?

and it's the same person everytime?

i know some ppl might have asked these before but if u don't mind to pls answer again....or that could be an official "secret" too....hehe....
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Old 08-12-2001, 07:38 PM   #22
sandy lam
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Yeah i agree, White Knight FAQ is a very good idea and would be very helpful too.....

I have a simple question..... how do cops decide on the cars to pull over on street and give VI? Cuz I have seen a girl driving a pretty much stock intergra (old aged one, and only lowered A BIT, nothing else) on Alderbridge Road in Richmond around 40 something km/h (kinda heavy traffic), and got pulled over in a mall parking lot......

I was right in front of the intergra and also entering the mall too, so I parked my car and walked on the side and watch the whole thing...

the cop asked for driver licences and insurance etc..... then start walking around the car, he was doing a simple inspection and see if there's anything wrong..... I guess he couldn't find anything, then asked the girl (BTW she's not like those bad looking girl type, she looked very "home belonging" type) to open the hood and trunk, and guess the cop found nothing too, well at least I saw the engine was stock (no intake or anything), and truck was empty except a jacket..... then the next thing I saw was the cop asking the girl to sign a VI.........

so, I was wondering from what reasons, a cop would pull over a car which is stock looking, not lound, not speeding, and an old car which may be dangerous of driving.....

thanks!
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Old 08-12-2001, 08:29 PM   #23
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First I would like to say thanks, White_Knight for visiting our forum and answering questions.

I would also like to have something setup for you to answer questions like the one being talked about since I was condering the N1 exhaust but I don't want to much trouble from the cops so I'll hold that off. Keiho and Orbiter keeps this forum very tidy and we all know each other so nothing really gets out of hand.
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Old 08-12-2001, 08:54 PM   #24
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Wow this is one purposeful thread! I guess this is the first time I read White Knight's message, is he/she a police? The unmarked Impreza police car?

I am really glad that there's someone here who can provide legal information regarding cars and driving.
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Old 08-12-2001, 09:25 PM   #25
Keiho
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Just remember to always keep it clean and not "rag" on the police guys.

WK is helping us out a lot by replying, so let's make him feel welcome ok?
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