Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Friday December 26, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC General > Motorsports

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-27-2005, 06:49 PM   #1
MattSTi
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 54885
Join Date: Feb 2004
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: NYC/WV
Vehicle:
2004 PSM STi
2006 Mazda MX-5 Race Car

Default How do you have your UTEC tuned for the track?

I was wondering if there is any specific tuning strategy that the avid track day enthusiasts use in UTEC equipped cars. I did my first event with the UTEC and really found the OLF hesitation to be very limiting when trying to smoothly modulate the throttle over the transition point. I have since tried leaning out the lower load sites up to around 4250 RPM, which fixes the hesitation on the road, but I'm not sure how it will do on the track. Any information, thoughts would be appreciated.

-matt
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
MattSTi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2005, 07:46 PM   #2
AUTOwrXER
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 5817
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Vehicle:
2005 STi
Silver

Default

What throttle position do you have it set to engage at? I believe mine is set at the minimum setting, and I've never noticed it kick in during an autocross run (don't track the car).
AUTOwrXER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2005, 08:23 PM   #3
MattSTi
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 54885
Join Date: Feb 2004
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: NYC/WV
Vehicle:
2004 PSM STi
2006 Mazda MX-5 Race Car

Default

I have the TPS crossover set to 20% (minimum). It's definitely noticeable in everyday driving, but it's really noticeable and irritating on the track.

-matt
MattSTi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2005, 08:43 PM   #4
turboICE
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 33979
Join Date: Mar 2003
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: N.NJ
Vehicle:
2006 STi,'11 OBS
WRB & Black/Silver

Default

I should probably just keep quiet, but here goes -

I feel the UTEC is a poor tuning tool in general. It can be made to perform OK at the extremes - it can be made OK for street, it can be made OK for strip. At the edge, I haven't seen anyone do anything impressive with transitions above second gear. (I am trying to think of someone who has even tried a time attack with a UTEC.)

That said - whatever you do - do not use a tune that is meant to get down a drag strip in the quickest ET. The best drag tune will result in EGTs off the map on the track.

My recommendation for anyone that wants to track a Subaru regularly is get Shiv to reflash it with EcuTek or have Phil from Element put in a hydra and tell them what the tune is being used for.
turboICE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2005, 10:45 PM   #5
MattSTi
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 54885
Join Date: Feb 2004
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: NYC/WV
Vehicle:
2004 PSM STi
2006 Mazda MX-5 Race Car

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by turboICE
I should probably just keep quiet, but here goes -

I feel the UTEC is a poor tuning tool in general. It can be made to perform OK at the extremes - it can be made OK for street, it can be made OK for strip. At the edge, I haven't seen anyone do anything impressive with transitions above second gear. (I am trying to think of someone who has even tried a time attack with a UTEC.)

That said - whatever you do - do not use a tune that is meant to get down a drag strip in the quickest ET. The best drag tune will result in EGTs off the map on the track.

My recommendation for anyone that wants to track a Subaru regularly is get Shiv to reflash it with EcuTek or have Phil from Element put in a hydra and tell them what the tune is being used for.
Sadly, I am beginning to agree with you.

I just spent about 2 hours trying to get my low gear, low load transitions smooth and it was very very frustrating. With the numbers I have in my fuel map right now (really negative, right back to positive, and so on) I would really like to see the background fuel map they are using.

Oh well, I'll see what I can do.

Maybe I could just run it in stock mode to eliminate the hesitation?

Any tips or tricks would be greatly appreciated, so far all I have gathered is that I should try to get the 10% below 4250 to be about stoich, and then smoothly transition through the 20% and 30%, and then finally try to get the timing a bit closer to the ecu's timing, without being too high.

-matt

Last edited by MattSTi; 07-27-2005 at 11:12 PM.
MattSTi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2005, 10:53 PM   #6
turboICE
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 33979
Join Date: Mar 2003
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: N.NJ
Vehicle:
2006 STi,'11 OBS
WRB & Black/Silver

Default

With the stock fueling don't worry about it, it is rich enough not to be a problem wherever timing wonders to. Also it won't pull to red line in third and above so don't bother - shift about 600 rpm or so earlier.
turboICE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2005, 01:47 PM   #7
gills
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 11316
Join Date: Oct 2001
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Long Island, NY
Vehicle:
2004 STi
'90 E30 S54 swap project

Default

Is this true? That no matter what you do or who tunes the UTEC, you will never get that little hesitation out? I just made an appointment with TXS to tune my UTEC soon hoping that they of all people would be able to eliminate that. I'm assuming they could since they are the creators of it. Please don't say they can't
gills is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2005, 01:59 PM   #8
Soon2Bgreat
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 2258
Join Date: Sep 2000
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Irvington, New York, USA
Vehicle:
1999 gc8 ver7 6mt
GT35R 504.7whp;)

Default

Have you played with timing. Timing played a major role in helping improve the low end of my map.

Like has been stated most dyno tunes, maps etc. are all tuned for power above 5k rpm and very conservative (not properly mapped) below that as it is the most knock prone area. Not to mention differences in setups show up in that region the most...it is why it's extra important for the end user to spend time with the proper tools tuning the driveability of the map. Chances are you can get the driveability where you want it...if not an EM switch may be the best way to go.
Soon2Bgreat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2005, 02:06 PM   #9
nmyeti
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 4980
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Albuquerque, NM USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gills
Is this true? That no matter what you do or who tunes the UTEC, you will never get that little hesitation out? I just made an appointment with TXS to tune my UTEC soon hoping that they of all people would be able to eliminate that. I'm assuming they could since they are the creators of it. Please don't say they can't
If you recently made an appointment for a tune, you will likely receive the newest firmware that eliminates the hesitation issues.

On the other hand, if you really want to see how well a UTEC can be used in Motorsports or track days, check out Luke Russell's one lap results (before he went off track and dropped out of the event) this last year. He was running with the big dogs and kicking some major tail on a TurboXS tuned UTEC.

The problem can be tuned out if you know what you are doing, but if you are not experienced, or don't have the proper tools, you have very little chance of ever getting it right. Lucky for those that don't have the experience or the tools, the new firmware does it for you automatically.

-Nathan
www.turboxs.com
nmyeti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2005, 02:17 PM   #10
wrex03
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 29963
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: chicago
Vehicle:
04 sti
silver

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattSTi
Sadly, I am beginning to agree with you.

I just spent about 2 hours trying to get my low gear, low load transitions smooth and it was very very frustrating. With the numbers I have in my fuel map right now (really negative, right back to positive, and so on) I would really like to see the background fuel map they are using.

Oh well, I'll see what I can do.

Maybe I could just run it in stock mode to eliminate the hesitation?

Any tips or tricks would be greatly appreciated, so far all I have gathered is that I should try to get the 10% below 4250 to be about stoich, and then smoothly transition through the 20% and 30%, and then finally try to get the timing a bit closer to the ecu's timing, without being too high.

-matt
If you get your utec timing to closely match the timing that your ecu wants to run it will be seamless.
wrex03 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2005, 02:18 PM   #11
wrex03
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 29963
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: chicago
Vehicle:
04 sti
silver

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nmyeti
If you recently made an appointment for a tune, you will likely receive the newest firmware that eliminates the hesitation issues.

On the other hand, if you really want to see how well a UTEC can be used in Motorsports or track days, check out Luke Russell's one lap results (before he went off track and dropped out of the event) this last year. He was running with the big dogs and kicking some major tail on a TurboXS tuned UTEC.

The problem can be tuned out if you know what you are doing, but if you are not experienced, or don't have the proper tools, you have very little chance of ever getting it right. Lucky for those that don't have the experience or the tools, the new firmware does it for you automatically.

-Nathan
www.turboxs.com
Is this on the site to download.... I guess I could go look huh...

edit: new website...
wrex03 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2005, 02:25 PM   #12
nmyeti
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 4980
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Albuquerque, NM USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wrex03
Is this on the site to download.... I guess I could go look huh...

edit: new website...

No, it's not in the full release stage yet.

-Nathan
www.turboxs.com
nmyeti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2005, 03:50 PM   #13
wrex03
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 29963
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: chicago
Vehicle:
04 sti
silver

Default

Will the new release be a background map addressing fueling that causes the hesitation, so we don't have to run as much timing in the 10/20/30 during switch over...
wrex03 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2005, 11:14 PM   #14
gills
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 11316
Join Date: Oct 2001
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Long Island, NY
Vehicle:
2004 STi
'90 E30 S54 swap project

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nmyeti
If you recently made an appointment for a tune, you will likely receive the newest firmware that eliminates the hesitation issues.

On the other hand, if you really want to see how well a UTEC can be used in Motorsports or track days, check out Luke Russell's one lap results (before he went off track and dropped out of the event) this last year. He was running with the big dogs and kicking some major tail on a TurboXS tuned UTEC.

The problem can be tuned out if you know what you are doing, but if you are not experienced, or don't have the proper tools, you have very little chance of ever getting it right. Lucky for those that don't have the experience or the tools, the new firmware does it for you automatically.

-Nathan
www.turboxs.com
Nathan, thanks for the info. I'm really looking forward to having my car tuned by you guys!! I'll see you August 20th!!
gills is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2005, 01:26 AM   #15
MattSTi
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 54885
Join Date: Feb 2004
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: NYC/WV
Vehicle:
2004 PSM STi
2006 Mazda MX-5 Race Car

Default

I can't wait for the new firmware.
MattSTi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2005, 02:09 AM   #16
Freon
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 88322
Join Date: Jun 2005
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Vehicle:
2009 BMW 135i

Default

Post some #1 logs in the tuning forum. You're not going to get very far here.
Freon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2005, 04:13 PM   #17
feropont
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 16061
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Taiwan
Vehicle:
MMII WRX sold
BlueDingo

Default

OOO please I need that firmware! The brothers dieing here..........
feropont is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2005, 04:59 PM   #18
zzyzx
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 815
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Florida
Vehicle:
2013 Boss 302 White
2000 2.5 RS Coupe Silver

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gills
Is this true? That no matter what you do or who tunes the UTEC, you will never get that little hesitation out?
That's a myth. It's much more likely that those doing the tuning don't have the experience or tools (e.g. a load bearing dyno...) to tune it properly. For the track, you should really get it on a load bearing dyno (e.g. Mustang) and tune based on a conservative EGT target.
zzyzx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2005, 06:38 PM   #19
cpasti
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 50582
Join Date: Dec 2003
Default

I have no hesitation problems street or track. I just took my car to the track last weekend. It was 95+ degrees, I did 5 track sessions for 106 miles total. Ran straight 100 octane on a map tuned for about 94 octane (I have a higher octane map, but didn't want to push it) 19 psi boost max at mid rpm, stock turbo, tapering to about 13 at redline. No problems. I run a separate 91 octane map on the street. I also see no issues with weather variations or other items that are common criticisms of the UTEC, and I don't adjust my maps. Helpful that I live in San Diego, and I have no basis to compare to other systems since I've never used them. But it can be done.
cpasti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2005, 07:55 PM   #20
MattSTi
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 54885
Join Date: Feb 2004
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: NYC/WV
Vehicle:
2004 PSM STi
2006 Mazda MX-5 Race Car

Default

Just got back from an all day long track event today. Turned out the UTEC hesitation wasn't as bad as last time, after leaning out the low load sites and switching the TPS crossover to 20% (not sure which one helped the most). However, I did have another problem, my car shut off after a high g turn fuel starvation incident (turn 10 at SPR main course) and left me coasting down the straight at about 110 mph. I got off into the marbles smoothly and the car started up again.

Anyway, I'm really looking forward to the new firmware for the UTEC and I would be happy to test it for turboxs at my next track event in august, assuming it is ready.

-matt
MattSTi is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Race seats and stock belts - how do you have yours mounted? Butt Dyno Motorsports 19 05-08-2008 07:15 PM
If you don't have your cats how do you pass your emission tests? SiC Stoner Newbies & FAQs 40 12-29-2005 03:07 AM
How do you have your sideview mirrors set up? trustWRX Off-Topic 37 08-13-2004 09:29 AM
How do you like your turbo kit for 2.5 rs? Szm426 Normally Aspirated with bolt-on Forced Induction Powertrain 32 07-26-2002 11:44 PM
5zigen fireball exhaust do you have to drill holes for the silencer 2.5rsMI Interior & Exterior Modification 6 07-13-2001 10:05 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:15 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.