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Old 08-12-2001, 07:34 PM   #1
Scampy
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Default paint (PROTECTION AND SHINE)

I just bought a 2002 WRX about 800 miles ago and I love it. I got it in black, which we all know, it can be a pain in the ass to keep clean. I also read alot of people complain about thin paint. As soon as I got the car, I put a coat of zimol on it to protect and shine. Thinking that if I put a nice polishing wax on it I could prevent a problem (or at least slow it down) before it happens. My question is, whats the best product I can use to protect as well as shine. I used zimol on my last car and I heard it's the best all around stuff, but maybe theres something else out there. I saw an info-mercial last night around 3 in the morning. It was on a product called DURA SHINE. Now, I could have just been in one of my half drunken stages, where everything looks good and at any moment I could grap the phone and call Ron Homko himself and order two food dehydrators and a turbo cooker, but the product actually looked like it worked better than other waxes I've seen. Have any of you heard of it before. I didn't order it and I won't till I here to see if anyone has used this product before.....Thanx.
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Old 08-12-2001, 07:41 PM   #2
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is that the crap were they put it on some guys car and supposedly put a laser on it saying it can with stand the heat of the laser at 500 degrees...
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Old 08-12-2001, 07:45 PM   #3
alexs001
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grap? did you say grap?
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Old 08-12-2001, 07:47 PM   #4
Scampy
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yeh.....They went to some remot part the stix and shot some hi-tech laser beem at some guys 95 beautiful granprix (no offence but the laser guy should of cut the car in half) but yeh , have you ever used it
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Old 08-12-2001, 07:48 PM   #5
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what's grap?
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Old 08-12-2001, 08:35 PM   #6
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Search for the phrase "grap on to your tired" and you will get the whole story- it started out as a grammatical/spelling mistake by someone whose first language is not English- it was funny at first, but people just won't let it go.


Brian
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Old 08-12-2001, 10:15 PM   #7
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We went to the local Ferrari place this week to gawk at the cars, and up walks a guy we meet at the last Impreza Club meet. He autocrosses professionally and it turns out he works at this place doing detailing. I asked him what they use on those cars and he said we can't buy it on the market. Then I asked about using products containing carnauba wax, and he said it's not the greatest thing because it doesn't let your paint breathe. He said the Meguiar's products were really good, though...

Now Meguiar's does make a liquid wax that contains carnauba, but they make a more expensive liquid wax called Gold Class Clear Coat Car Wax, and that's the stuff I've been using.

However if you do a search here there is good information about other products people use. It all has to do with preference.

Go to www.meguiars.com and request a catalog.

Last edited by subymamma; 08-12-2001 at 10:21 PM.
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Old 08-12-2001, 10:32 PM   #8
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Zaino is the way to go. Just ordered stuff from them.
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Old 08-12-2001, 11:30 PM   #9
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www.zainobros.com Simply, the best!
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Old 08-13-2001, 10:16 AM   #10
Flesher
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Default Dura Shine

I've used Dura Shine before, and it's pretty decent. I have no idea about it's paint protecting properties, but it's really easy to put on, looks ok, and beads up water really well.

If you're the kind of person that's going to bother with zimol, I doubt you would be very interested in Dura Shine. I've only used it on older cars that needed a quick shine-up, not on my WRX.
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Old 08-13-2001, 12:09 PM   #11
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Personally, I've grown rather fond of Klasse All-in-One. It's an acrylic-based polish and sealant. Easier to put on and take off than a paste wax, and it doesn't leave behind the powdery white residue that most liquid polishes do. Leaves a nice smooth surface and a deep shine. It won't stain black trim parts, in fact it actually removed the streaks that a different polish left behind. I haven't ever seen it for sale in stores, but you can order it from several online locations. I buy mine from www.properautocare.com. Hope this helps!

Jordan
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Old 08-13-2001, 12:28 PM   #12
Langit
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Thumbs up

just use Klasse All in one followed by triple coat of Klasse Sealant Glaze...you won;t be dissapopinted in terms of shine and protection...

got mine also www.properautocare.com

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Old 08-13-2001, 01:51 PM   #13
Overtime
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I dunno... that grap post is as much a part of i-club's heritage as rolling banners that scream "beotch."

As for protecting your paint... a lot of those synthetic car polishes (Nu-finish, for one) look great when you first put them on and then fade. They remove oxidation off of a car which has not been waxed much so that the immediate results are dramatic.

Of course, they do last longer than normal waxes, but they certainly won't last forever, and they do shear layers off your paint like any abrasive. The whole appeal to most of those polishes is the "easy-on, easy-off" application and the fact that "you only need to do it once a year."

Happiness never comes in a bottle. It usually takes four or five.

If you're just interested in picking something up off the shelves of the local auto parts store, go for 3M hand glaze and show car wax from NAPA. If your paint isn't brand new then use a good paint cleaner (make sure it's fine-cut unless you're seeing significant fading in the paint already) beforehand.
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Old 08-13-2001, 02:18 PM   #14
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well..it depends on what kind of sealant are you using...
one application of klasse will last 9 - 12...
the all in one itself has paint cleaner and polish..

I was skeptical at first too...but after apply a layer of all in one and followed by high gloss sealant (3 coats if the magic number for many detailers), then I was totally sold to Klasse

Zaino is also a very good product...I haven;t tried it myself but you can't go wrong with either of these..you have to mail order it too though...but rest assured properautocare.com has a very great customer service..

IMO these stuff (klasse and zaino) are top of the line not wal mart stuff like nu finish or turtle wax...

if you don't believe me, ask thse people about Klasse and Zaino:

http://autopia-carport.com/forum/for...php3?forumid=3
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Old 08-13-2001, 05:41 PM   #15
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permplate is very very good if u can get your hands on a bottle of that..

joe
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Old 08-13-2001, 05:58 PM   #16
Overtime
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Actually, you can get Zaino online. Costs like a dollar more but in terms of ease of use, I guess it's worth it to some people.

Klasse's All-in-one is good stuff but it's just a paint cleaner, really. A nice paint cleaner, but still a paint cleaner, an abrasive. (Almost any fine-cut paint cleaner will leave you with a nice clean coat of paint. What you do with it afterwards is up to you.)

The fact that it includes some synthetic polish-type stuff in it doesn't make it better than a cleaner + glaze + wax deal. Just easier. I like to think that you get the best results when you seperate all the components of detailing.

That being said, Klasse is good stuff. Just different strokes to different folks.
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Old 08-13-2001, 07:30 PM   #17
FirmWind
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Default ToughGuard

ToughGuard is what I use. www.toughguard.com I came across this site through Larry's 2.5RS site. It's like Perma Plate in that its a teflon coating synthetic polymer wax kind of product, but unlike it, you don't have to reapply every six months or so. One time application lasts five years, money-back guarantee. One bottle is probably 2-3 Honda Civics worth. See the FAQ in the website. Costs much less than Perma Plate too: $97.95.

The interior products for it are so-so, not very unlike other products out there, so I wouldn't necessarily recommend the interior stuff. It makes the vinyl in your car look all oil-shiny. The exterior stuff rocks however. Their claim is that you don't need to ever wax your car again, just car wash it. In fact, waxing it may decrease the strength of the product coating.

So far, it's worked great. Water just beads on it. And true to their claim, I only saw it necessary to wash it once a month. And it totally still looks clean, reflective. Just be sure to wipe the water off right after you wash it, because if you leave it like that, the water beads dry into water marks (true for any wax you apply, it's just physics).

The site itself looks kinda hokey, I thought so when I looked at it, but hey, the product works, so I'm not complaining. It's a great investment, the US Navy uses their product as well.

Last edited by FirmWind; 08-13-2001 at 07:38 PM.
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Old 08-13-2001, 11:19 PM   #18
up4air
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Default All the above sources and

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Old 08-14-2001, 12:09 AM   #19
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when I have the money, Zaino is the way to go, but its almost $100 for the whole kit and it takes almost a day to do, but if you spend the time man oh man does it look gorgeous. If you have the time/money Zaino is the way to go.
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Old 08-14-2001, 11:27 AM   #20
JNaubur
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Default Flame Suit ON!

To anyone reading reading this thread with the hope of learning about waxes or polishes - move on. There is so many myths and lies here that I shouldn't even start to point them out individually. Do your own research and you will learn for yourself, and for goodness' sake don't only take one persons opinion or only visit one message board.

I will try and correct a few of the biggest myths:

1. "Paint needs to breathe/expand/cure" -nonsense for any car painted at a factory. The baking process evaporates all the chemicals and by the time you drive it off the lot it is as hard as it'll get. Any wax/polymer I have seen contains flex agents to allow it to move if needed. And wax doesn't 'nourish' the paint anymore. If you have a new car, the new paints are water based so they don't need the oils.

2. New polymer sealants do not take a layer of paint off. Some of the better ones specifically tell you to clay your car before application because the polish will not take off any residue or imperfections. I don't know about the cheap TV ones, or older ones from like 5 years ago or more, but the current ones are great. Just because some brands use the term polish to mean abrasive, that doesn't mean that they all are.

3. Wax is better. Polymer is better. Whatever. Do what you like. The secret is in the application. Clean soft cloths, good car wash soap, gentle wash mitt etc.. If you like the look of wax go for it. Polymer might last longer but some people like applying wax regularly, nothing wrong with that. Buy a quality product and use time and skill applying it and you will be amazed - be it one step or 12 steps. Just make sure there is always something between paint and the world.

Notice that I didn't mention any brands. That is up to you. I don't want to be accused of selling them, because I don't. Read all opinions that you can, and base your own opinion on all of those. Don't be afraid to experiment. Visit different sites, especially detailing specific sites for application methods and recommendations. If you want to flame me, go ahead - but please explain your criticism. If you want to know what I do to wash and wax my car, message me. I don't usually advertise my product choices unless specifically asked since there are so many good ones out there. My choice is just that - mine.

Now go take care of that expensive car, and make Subaru owners proud!

JNaubur

PS. I don't mean to come off like an ass, but I read so much BS and know that some people might believe it - I once did. I have used many different waxes, polishes, applicators, soaps and towels/chamois on different cars, that I now have a good opinion on their quality. The best way to learn is through experience.
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Old 08-14-2001, 12:11 PM   #21
Langit
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Thumbs up

I agree JNaubur...experience counts..but learning from other people experience is helpful too..
and this thread might be the starting point of the 'experimentation'

but I basically agree with you..you have to decide and experiments..there is no magic solution out there..
read and learn
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Old 08-14-2001, 12:15 PM   #22
Overtime
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Quote:
New polymer sealants do not take a layer of paint off. Some of the better ones specifically tell you to clay your car before application because the polish will not take off any residue or imperfections.
Sweeping generalizations do not an expert make.

Take the Klasse AIO/SG combination. The AIO cleans the paint and it is abrasive. The SG is non-abrasive and provides the protection for the paint.

But something like the "Fast Finish" polymer, that's abrasive. And many of the synthetic polishes-as well as many of the "cleaner waxes"-include abrasives in them. It's impossible to make a sweeping generalization on what has what in it.

I'll try anyway. Generally glazes are sure-fire non-abrasives. Expensive waxes which do not have the words "cleaner" or "all-in-one" tend to not contain abrasives. Anything that has the words "cleaner" or "all-in-one" is an abrasive. And anything which describes itself as "fine cut," "medium cut," or "heavy cut," that's an abrasive-with graduating levels of abrasion.

I'm of the mind that the more you seperate the process the better your car will look.

Quote:
3. Wax is better. Polymer is better. Whatever. Do what you like. The secret is in the application.
I completely agree.

People bag on brand x or brand y all the time, but it really is all about getting the results you like. And unless you're a detailing fanatic, you can do that with almost anything from the local Pep Boys or AutoZone or whatever.

However, when people ask for reccomendations, I am not so removed that I won't supply the information on what I use and why I use it.
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Old 08-14-2001, 01:38 PM   #23
JNaubur
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Default I stand corrected

Overtime, I had Klasse SG stuck in my head, and thought that that was what you were referring to. I forgot all about AIO, and it having abrasives. My bad. Anyways, I never said I was an expert and I stand as an example of my own advice - don't take only one persons opinion. D'oh.

Also, I don't usually give product recommendations because when I have on other boards (not so civil as this one) I was accused of selling them or such crap.

Yes this might be the start of experimentation, but when people dismiss one product or brand it is not helpful. Perhaps saying that 'I use this and I like it because...' would be better than 'That stuff sucks'. But I am living in a dream world. Oh yeah, we should all recycle and stop burning fossil fuels. Ha ha.

And just to stop this here, I don't direct my points at anyone in particular, just making generalizations.

Here are some of my tips for preventing swirls and generally washing the car.

Scampy, in my opinion the best way to prevent scratches/swirl marks is by being careful. By that I mean try not to use automatic car washes, or stiff brushes to wash your car. Use a clean bucket with good car wash (not dish soap) and a chenile, microfiber or a soft wool mitt in straight lines from front to back. I use a soft wool mitt, but am looking for a good microfiber one. Keep a second bucket of clean water to rinse your mitt. You'll be suprised how dirty that bucket gets and how clean the soap water stays. Wash your wheels first with their own mitt or brush (the only time I use a brush is with the wheels). Then wash the top horizontal surfaces (roof and hood), then the glass then the sides - top to bottom. Do one section at a time and rinse after each. Use a separate mitt for the very bottom of the doors/bumpers. Use free running water for the final rinse (not a water jet) since it will allow the water to sheet off better allowing quicker drying. And don't wash your car in the sun. Dry with a cotton towel (with NO polyester thread) or a natural or synthetic chamois with very little pressure. I use a synthetic one. When applying waxes/polish/glaze etc. follow the directions on the bottle closely. Anything with abrasives in it will easily make more scratches than they try to remove if applied incorrectly or with too much pressure, try in an inconspicuous area first - not the middle of your hood. Been there, done that . Wash all applicators, buffing cloths, wash mitts and towels after each use. If anything falls on the ground, wash it before using it again. Use liquid detergent. Don't use fabric softeners. Cut off the towel labels, and the end stitching since even '100% cotton' towels may use polyester thread - use a lighter to determine this, if it burns like a wick its cotton, if it melts with black smoke and has a black melted ball on the end, it is polyester. Wash all tools before use. Again, don't apply pressure. Wash off bird crap immediately. If you want to use a power buffer, make it a good one and be careful! Practice on a POS first. Hmm, that denegrated into a list of unrelated tips - sorry.

Anyway, if anyone has any advice, other tips or recommendations please post them. Please, I mean it. My methods are constantly evolving, and I'm sure there is a lot more for me to learn. Maybe one day I'll type up a 'current best approach' for maintaining your car's finish. And remember that this is only the best way for me. Some people might like using one of those long wands with the stiff brush/soap applicator built in, with spray on wax, in the sun, in a dust storm - but I wouldn't recommend it, unless its a rental car

JNaubur

Yes I'm - significantly less grumpy now.
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Old 08-14-2001, 03:05 PM   #24
Overtime
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Jnaubur,

Thanks for the clarifications. I didn't mean to come off as a complete jackass-I just thought that you were being a little heavy-handed in your approach. Always good to see more people on here who have lots of detailing experience.

I'm interested (and I won't accuse you of selling anything) - what do you use in terms of products? I immediately assumed Klasse SG but I am curious as to what you use to clean the paint.

I would agree with everything that you said except the mitt. Most people use a wool mitt or a polyester/acrylic mitt. The former is better than the latter, but best of all is a 100% cotton (chenille) mitt. That'll leave the least swirl marks and be the gentlest to your paint, though some people go even further and get sponges and exotic expensive "soap applicators." Not me.

Other than that... thumbs up. I would also suggest to whomever is waxing/polishing/glazing/rubbing/massaging their car that a thin coat of wax is easier to remove and apply than using an excess amount of wax. Those foam applicator pads make it really easy to apply wax, though some people prefer terry cloth/microfibre.
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Old 08-14-2001, 04:51 PM   #25
JNaubur
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Default I've tried them all it seems...

I was using Meguiars professional line up until recently. It was great on my last car - Honda. But on the Subaru I wasn't too happy. Practically having a store's worth of various products in my closet (much to my wife's dismay) I wanted to try something new. I jumped in and purchased the Zaino system last week. I used Dawn to strip the wax, and then a clay bar, then the Zaino stuff. I'm still not finished the recommended application so I cannot comment on it's long term quality. I'm doing 3 coats of the swirl remover - the subaru paint is really easy to scratch - and I was delicate. (I think it was the natural chamois that I used when I first washed it, since there aren't many new ones) Now I have a P21s synthetic one, and want to try the Water Bandit. I gave up on terry towels - it just took too many. Zaino recommends that you do multiple coats, and to use the swirl remover until you are happy with the finish, then the final polish. Zaino has no abrasives at all, so you have to clay. I also used some 3M SMR first. Other than once trying a friends Klasse SG, I have always used Carnauba wax.

As for wash mitts, I use a plush soft wool mitt. I haven't seen a chenile one in my part of town. Sometimes Canada sucks for quality stuff. I had to look all over for Meguiars pro line or 3M stuff. Since the exchange rate is so bad, I hate ordering from the US. Which mitt do you like? I have been wanting to try something new.

As for cleaning, I used to use Meguiars Swirl Mark Remover (#9?) but now use 3M IHG or 3M SMR. Well with the Zaino, I may not use either for now. I really like the 3M product, but you have to be delicate with that stuff or you will be sorry. Next time I need to clean I may just try clay unless there is a lot of buildup, then maybe whip out the 3M - my current fave.

And thin coats are definitely better. Although sometimes the male 'more is better' hormone starts flowing and it is hard to combat. It is still hard for me sometimes to refrain from using too much, and also working a section too long, those are my worst habits.

JNaubur

Sometimes I need someone to point out how I am seen by others. Thanks for the reality check.
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