Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Saturday December 20, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Normally Aspirated Powertrain

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-29-2005, 07:38 PM   #1
rob
n00b Moderator
Moderator
 
Member#: 811
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: WA
Vehicle:
2000 RS-Ej20G
It tastes like burning

Default Road Dyno results: MRT header

These are 2nd gear runs using the Road Dyno software (2 runs each way on the same road averaged together).

Base run was stock '00RS
The Cobb CAI run was Base + CAI
MRT was MRT + CAI

Keep in mind this is only the header and midipe with the stock RS muffler. The header *had* a cat, but is was emptied out by a previous owner. The midpipe is the resonator-less version. The max TQ gain was 11ft-lbs and the largest HP gain was 12.8 both at 5800. The saggy torque value between 3k and 3800 looks to be due to overfueling. My O2 data shows AFR going from 13.5 down to 11.5, then back above 12.2. Hopefully my SAFC experiements will get some of that back.

Overall I have been happy with the driving results and a bit surprised to see such big gains. Using rough math this puts me at about 190hp at the flywheel.

-Rob

* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
rob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2005, 07:57 PM   #2
Matt Monson
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 832
Join Date: Jan 2000
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Teh Ghetto Garage, CO
Vehicle:
99 2.5RS, '85 911
'73 914 and 2012 BRZ

Default

Those are nice numbers. But one thing to keep in mind, is that driveline loss is not a constant percentage. With greater power levels, driveline loss goes down. You are probably more like 180-185CHP. Also, 185Chp is what BSFC formulas limit our engine to without doing something like bumping the CR or cam profiles...
Matt Monson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2005, 08:14 PM   #3
rob
n00b Moderator
Moderator
 
Member#: 811
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: WA
Vehicle:
2000 RS-Ej20G
It tastes like burning

Default

Interesting. Is there a thread with someone running the BSFC numbers? Embarrassingly enough, I don't even know what size injectors we have

I did say *rough* math

I feel kind of silly doing all this testing with an '95 WRX clip in my garage...

-Rob
rob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2005, 09:24 PM   #4
HolyCrikey
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 66776
Join Date: Jul 2004
Chapter/Region: South East
Vehicle:
2005 Mazda3 Hatch
Titanium Grey Metallic

Default

Wow, interesting stuff. How do you like that Road Dyno software? Ease of use? I've been contemplating buying something like it just for the hell of it. Are there are items like it from different companies?
HolyCrikey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2005, 11:30 PM   #5
Doyle138
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 91920
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Vehicle:
2007 WRX Ltd Wagon
Garnet Red Pearl

Default

I realize this is a silly question, but if I buy a PowerPerfect or something like that, and I'm able to figure out what needs tuned, does the software tune it for me or do I have to be mechanically inclined? I guess what I'm asking is will PP program the car's system or do I have to pick up a wrench?
Doyle138 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2005, 03:09 AM   #6
rob
n00b Moderator
Moderator
 
Member#: 811
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: WA
Vehicle:
2000 RS-Ej20G
It tastes like burning

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HolyCrikey
Wow, interesting stuff. How do you like that Road Dyno software? Ease of use? I've been contemplating buying something like it just for the hell of it. Are there are items like it from different companies?
I really like it; relatively accurate depending on the quality of the parameters you set and very repeatable. Honestly though, I would just buy the software and put together your own recording device. That's I did initially. I am borrowing the full on road dyno equipment right now, but I'

It's pretty easy to use as long as you get a clean signal from the inductive clamp.

Doyle: There is a whole other thread about the PP. Suggest you inquire there.

-Rob
rob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2005, 09:08 AM   #7
Kevin Thomas
Street Racing Instructor
Moderator
 
Member#: 110
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: 1997 OBS, 1996 SVX, 1988 RX
Vehicle:
1989 1989 XT6

Default

Good stuff Rob! Thanks for posting this up for all to see.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Monson
Those are nice numbers. But one thing to keep in mind, is that driveline loss is not a constant percentage. With greater power levels, driveline loss goes down. You are probably more like 180-185CHP. Also, 185Chp is what BSFC formulas limit our engine to without doing something like bumping the CR or cam profiles...
Matt,
How much would this apply to his situation? I mean, I understand where you are coming from with the driveline loss but he didn't add turbo kit with 15psi and a 50 shot of nitrous. He only added a header which may have added 5-10hp or so to his overal engine's output. Driveline losses shouldn't have changed so much as to making him have to input a lower driveline loss percentage. He should be able to put the same driveline loss as when he ran his base and CAI run and still be accurate. When he starts getting big hp numbers, driveline loss input should play a much larger role in what numbers he come up with.

It's good you bring this up though since people do tend to forget this and need to be reminded.
Kevin Thomas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2005, 09:59 AM   #8
Storm
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 5218
Join Date: Mar 2001
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: SAUL'S Motorsports
Vehicle:
96L Most Over-
Developed Beater

Default

I'd be more interested in what the car is putting down to the ground over CHP #'s anyway. No need to play the guessing game or calculation clinic to figure out what amounts of torque effect driveline losses in what amounts.

Nice work!

Jay Storm
Storm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2005, 12:26 PM   #9
Matt Monson
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 832
Join Date: Jan 2000
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Teh Ghetto Garage, CO
Vehicle:
99 2.5RS, '85 911
'73 914 and 2012 BRZ

Default

Kevin,
I had a long conversation with Xephyr one night about this, and he shared his extensive experience with a number of different set ups, and a lot of dyno time. You would think it would be much more significant a difference the higher up you went in horsepower. But his experience suggests otherwise. He models every set up he tries before hand to calculate crank horsepower, and then guesstimates what he'll get on the dyno. He has about a 95+% accuracy rate on this over the last 4-5 years. What he has found is that after something like the first 50-60chp gained, the driveline loss starts to levels out. Which makes sense, because ultimately you need to generate the initial inertia in the drivedrain, and after that, it is largely a matter of keeping the mass moving. And the other thing is because of that, the driveline loss isn't really a constant. One will have more loss in the lower RPM's while getting the mass moving, and further up in the rpm's, the resistance beyond the obsolute loss (due to the mass of the drivetrain and friction from road resistance) will only be that required to further accelerate an already moving mass. After Mark hit somewhere around 300chp, what he found was that his driveline loss practically became a constant number of horsepower.

With Rob's set up, I figured only a couple % more efficiency with his mods. On my own set up, the same rough math Rob used suggests I am making 228hp, but I generally refer to my engine as at 220chp, unless I am trying to look cool, and then I bump it up to 225.

Rob,
Yes, the formulas are around here somewhere. Unfortunately, I am a lazy one, and don't want to go search it out right now. You could also find it in one of the back issues of SCC where Shiv calculated it using his 2.5RS as a separate article during his RS-T project car series of articles.

Regardless, you are putting down 18whp over stock, which is a real nice bump...
Matt Monson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2005, 02:17 PM   #10
HolyCrikey
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 66776
Join Date: Jul 2004
Chapter/Region: South East
Vehicle:
2005 Mazda3 Hatch
Titanium Grey Metallic

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rob
I really like it; relatively accurate depending on the quality of the parameters you set and very repeatable. Honestly though, I would just buy the software and put together your own recording device. That's I did initially. I am borrowing the full on road dyno equipment right now, but I'

It's pretty easy to use as long as you get a clean signal from the inductive clamp.

Doyle: There is a whole other thread about the PP. Suggest you inquire there.

-Rob
How easy would it be to make a recording device?
HolyCrikey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2005, 10:23 PM   #11
rob
n00b Moderator
Moderator
 
Member#: 811
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: WA
Vehicle:
2000 RS-Ej20G
It tastes like burning

Default

It's pretty easy. There are some instructions on his webpage. The tricky part is getting the recorded pulses to be recognized by the software. It takes some twiddling your recording settings and filters in the audio SW. It's worth it if you don't want to pay the extra $100 for the convenient hardware.
rob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2005, 10:29 PM   #12
rob
n00b Moderator
Moderator
 
Member#: 811
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: WA
Vehicle:
2000 RS-Ej20G
It tastes like burning

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Monson
Rob,
Yes, the formulas are around here somewhere. Unfortunately, I am a lazy one, and don't want to go search it out right now. You could also find it in one of the back issues of SCC where Shiv calculated it using his 2.5RS as a separate article during his RS-T project car series of articles.

Regardless, you are putting down 18whp over stock, which is a real nice bump...
Hey Matt,

Actually I can calculate my BSFC because I have logged the injector opening time. Now I just need to look around and find our injector size...

-Rob
rob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2005, 12:47 AM   #13
rob
n00b Moderator
Moderator
 
Member#: 811
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: WA
Vehicle:
2000 RS-Ej20G
It tastes like burning

Default

Assuming 185 chp and using RC's calculator, my BSFC is 0.44.

With that, max power alvailable with stock injectors:
193 @ 80% IDC,
217 @ 90%
240 @ full static

-Rob
rob is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Sreet Tune, Dyno Results: JDM STi EJ207 Blouch Dom3, dyno video too DuCash Proven Power Bragging 46 11-01-2009 12:25 PM
Latest dyno results: 145hp, 144ft-lb on Mustang dyno Patrick Olsen Normally Aspirated Powertrain 39 08-27-2008 04:19 AM
OBX header vs. MRT header dyno results Patrick Olsen Normally Aspirated Powertrain 7 06-26-2006 09:31 AM
Dyno Results: TurboXs WRX boost controller Kcz Factory 2.0L Turbo Powertrain (EJ Series Factory 2.0L Turbo) 17 05-22-2001 04:19 AM
More dyno results: TEC-II turbo'd MY99 shiv Normally Aspirated with bolt-on Forced Induction Powertrain 33 04-07-2001 10:54 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:11 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.