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Old 07-30-2005, 01:11 AM   #1
prescottsti
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Default how to get rid of or cut back the understeer?

Well I have very little confidence with the handling of my STI I'm not sure what I need to do to get rid of the extreme and dangerous understeer my car has the car has 32k miles with the stock suspension the tires are Nexen 3000's which I think are pretty hard rubber
is it my tires

suspension?

I know all awd's have understeer but the amount my car has the steering wheel might as well not even turn. the front end slides and doesnt want to change direction

I would like to get it straightened out because I like everything about my car except this understeer
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Old 07-30-2005, 02:07 AM   #2
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I think after market swaybar will help. I would go through and check all the suspension components and tighten all bolt including front sub frame. AWD does not mean under steer, but you have to induce weight transfer by yanking steering wheel hard. My lowly 02 with the STI springs and AGX, sway bars over steer at will, too much some time!
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Old 07-30-2005, 02:28 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prescottsti
Well I have very little confidence with the handling of my STI I'm not sure what I need to do to get rid of the extreme and dangerous understeer my car has
If you are referring to the "extreme and dangerous" understeer of a stock STi, it sounds like you REALLY need to familiarize yourself with the car better before you make it handle more aggressively.

An autox or driving school would be worth way more in terms of your ability to control the car than any suspension mod would net you.
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Old 07-30-2005, 05:40 AM   #4
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What nhulur said, plus make sure your tire pressure is set correctly - especially with a tire that might not be as grippy as the RE070s. Also, where are you experiencing this "dangerous" understeer?
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Old 07-30-2005, 08:16 AM   #5
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Has it felt this way to you since the car was purchased or is this a "new" feeling?

If it's a new feeling, then definitely check your air pressure. You might also want to take the car to the dealer and let them go over the suspension.

The STi handles quite well from the factory and I would certainly not characterize the understeer in the stock vehicle as "dangerous".
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Old 07-30-2005, 08:50 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prescottsti
extreme and dangerous understeer my car has the car ... the steering wheel might as well not even turn. the front end slides and doesnt want to change direction...
Terminal understeer. You are overdriving the car. You need to slow down more before you enter the turn.

FSB, more neg camber will go a long way. But slowing down does wonders.
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Old 07-30-2005, 09:27 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orthikon
Terminal understeer. You are overdriving the car. You need to slow down more before you enter the turn.

FSB, more neg camber will go a long way. But slowing down does wonders.
+1
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Old 07-30-2005, 10:35 AM   #8
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What are your alignment settings?

You can get a completely stock (well, perhaps with the addition of rear camber bolts) STi to handle very nicely if the alignment is properly set up.
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Old 07-30-2005, 11:43 AM   #9
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Most(every) stock car understeers. It's for safety and helps prevent you from getting into a real dangerous situation...like spinning out.

I think the two simplest ways have been covered. Alignment and tire pressures will change the contact patch of the front and rear tires on the road as well as the path the tires roll when cornering(ex. toe settings). As well, a rear swaybar will probably be the most benificial upgrade for eliminating the defaut understeer tuned by the manufacture. An adjustable one would probably be best as you can adjust it for more or less under/oversteer.

Still, with a completely stock car, you can still create oversteer through driving technique changes. A good driver can pretty much do anything with any car, reguardless of setup. Physics of course limits what one can humanly do with a car, but a person who understands the physics behind the way a car works can do wonders behind the wheel of a car. Technique goes a long, long way.

As was said, you can actually drive slower, lol. As well, work on weight shift techniques and techniques to help change the available traction on the tires to get the car to rotate.

For grip driving, this is pretty much all braking, but it varies depending on what you do. Sometimes you can get the car to rotate just by letting off the throttle. Maybe you need only light braking, maybe heavier braking to move more weight forward. You can brake off the throttle or while still on the throttle(left foot braking). You could even use the parking brake to help reduce rear end traction. You may during(into) the corner or brake just before. The brake balance is usually front biased so it gets tricky to brake into a corner. It's possible to actually create understeer of you use up too much traction for braking while leaving less to actually be able to turn the car. It depends on brake bias and on how much and how fast you're moving weight forward. It's a bit dynamic as it will vary by what you do and the surface you're on. Look up info on "traction circles" and "trail braking" for more info.

It's also possilbe to create oversteer through throttle. Since the car is set up for understeer, you have to steer into the corner to bring the balance more neutral. The front tires will actually help pull in the front of the car. If you can gain enough pull, you can actually counter the understeer. Again, it all depends on many factors and comes down to available traction. Essentially, you may or may not have understeer, lol. It's really all dynamic, and you have to play around with the car and see what works. Some techniques will, some won't.

Suspension changes gets around these techniques. Physical changes allow you to tune the car the way you want the car to behave. You adapt the car to yourself as opposed to you adapting to the car.
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Old 07-30-2005, 12:21 PM   #10
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Well said Road Runner.

The 4 things I've found that effected my turn in or lack of understeer were over the years at the track have been...

A. Race Rubber
B. Alignment
C. Tire Pressures
D. Sway bars/Coilover settings.

After getting these things dialed in I've found the only way I'd understeer was if I was just plain over driving the track/car. Try getting all your braking done before the turn, not pounding on the brakes in the middle of it. If you're laying on the brakes + trying to get the car to turn sharp = Understeer.

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Last edited by Subie Gal; 07-31-2005 at 12:56 PM.
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Old 07-30-2005, 03:52 PM   #11
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My tire pressures are 34 psi all around. I was following my brother in his stock 05 evo he went right around the corner I was even going slower than him and almost wrecked. neither of have went to driving schools but we are signed up for one in October. I know an evo handles better but my car would just simply not turn in
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Old 07-30-2005, 04:51 PM   #12
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34psi is too low..try 39 all around..go into the corner a bit slower and then hit the throttle as you past the apex.
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Old 07-30-2005, 06:45 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prescottsti
My tire pressures are 34 psi all around. I was following my brother in his stock 05 evo he went right around the corner I was even going slower than him and almost wrecked. neither of have went to driving schools but we are signed up for one in October. I know an evo handles better but my car would just simply not turn in

Lies, the Evo does not handle better

Well, I wouldn't know because I'm in Canada and they don't sell it here..

But anyways, how are you entering the corner? Even I can get my WRX to oversteer if I wanted to....
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Old 07-30-2005, 09:03 PM   #14
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For anything I've come across, the Evo will out corner. A co-worker has an Evo VIII. I've driven behind him in my lovely Forester on the way to another co-worker's house, zipping through some slow 90s on the side streets up to his house. I'm of course nowhere near matched, not for suspension, not for weight(weight's close I think, just a lot higher up), not for tires, well not anything. What he made look easy, I'm screetching my tires. It doesn't help that he shoots off like a rocket after a corner either, while I'm gunning it and still look stopped. A WRX is of course better and a STI better yet. Still, the Evo is a fast car and better set up for the track than a STI is. Tuning can fix that though.

I think you would have been better off with the stock RE070s. (stock on STI right?) From what I've come across on this board is that they're about the stickiest tires you'll come across. They probably would have helped a lot for max grip. I've never heard of the brand(or model) Nexen.
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Old 07-31-2005, 12:03 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prescottsti
My tire pressures are 34 psi all around. I was following my brother in his stock 05 evo he went right around the corner I was even going slower than him and almost wrecked. neither of have went to driving schools but we are signed up for one in October. I know an evo handles better but my car would just simply not turn in
Wow no wonder you are having problems. The fronts should be at least 36psi and the rears 30psi (cold). For spirited driving most people seem to bump them up to 38-40 front and maybe 32-34 in the rears. A track day might require even higher pressures. I have no idea what kind of tires Nexen 3000s are anyhow, but apparently they are a "sport" tire. Their treadwear rating is in the 300s, which seems surprisingly high for a sport tire. In comparison a Michelin Pilot Sport PS2 is 220 and the RE070s are 140 (!). Granted that isn't the proper way to compare traction, but it does give you an idea of the tire's hardness.

Furthermore, I know people like to swing off the nuts of the Evo but I highly doubt it is THAT much better than a STi, especially on the street. Unless the Evo is just that much easier to squeeze performance out of... Then again, who knows...we don't have them here in Canada.
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Old 07-31-2005, 01:24 AM   #16
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EVO vs. 05 STi is a driver tossup. I have both and have driven both very hard. I've done suspension mods to my STi not so much because the car handled poorly but more because I wanted to improve the areas of it's performance that I didn't care for (body roll, firmer ride). The EVO is DEFINITELY the easier of the two to drive fast with little/no experience though. Once familiar with the STi, it is amazing what it can do.

+1 for an aggresive street alignment and maybe a front or set of sway bars. My car was WAY out of wack alignment wise from the factory.
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Old 07-31-2005, 04:26 AM   #17
prescottsti
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I think it might be the tires mainly they are okay but nothing compared to the Re070's the sti came with. I didnt feel like it was the suspension so much it just seems like the tires just have no grip in cornering
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Old 07-31-2005, 02:32 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prescottsti
My tire pressures are 34 psi all around. I was following my brother in his stock 05 evo he went right around the corner I was even going slower than him and almost wrecked. neither of have went to driving schools but we are signed up for one in October. I know an evo handles better but my car would just simply not turn in
FACT: The EVO comes from the factory with a bigger rear swaybar and -1.5 degrees front camber.

FACT: The STi comes from the factory with -0.5 degrees front camber.
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Old 07-31-2005, 08:17 PM   #19
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I believe the EVO also comes with a higher rear springrate than front, unlike the STi which comes with a higher springrate in the front than rear.

-Biggly
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Old 07-31-2005, 10:28 PM   #20
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You are correct Biggly
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Old 07-31-2005, 10:50 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prescottsti
Well I have very little confidence with the handling of my STI I'm not sure what I need to do to get rid of the extreme and dangerous understeer my car has the car has
Buddy, I hate to tell you but if your STI is having "extreme and dangerous" understeer, then its one of two things causing it.

1. Something is broken or the alignment is WAY off (which would be from something being broken most likely)

2. You simply do not know how to drive an AWD car. (dont feel bad, its not as intuitive as people think, and its nothing like fwd or rwd)


I am betting 100% of my life on its 100% driver error. STI's DO NOT have anything remotely resembling extreme understeer. They have MUCH less understeer than WRX's do.
My suggestion? Take a driving school, as in a high performance driving event (track day with instruction), an advanced driving skills school, and do some autocrossing (take an instructor with you for your first 10 runs AT LEAST (this is good advice even if you are a good driver)

Its also not the tires. If it was the tires both ends would slide.

Understeer? Every STI I have driven oversteers cleanly through every hard turn I have taken in them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by prescottsti
I know an evo handles better but my car would just simply not turn in
You overcooked the turn. Plain and simple driver error. Even if it seemed like your buddy was going exactly the same speed as you, he wasnt.
Evos handle better than the 04 STI, but not by that much.

Last edited by Davenow; 07-31-2005 at 10:56 PM.
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Old 07-31-2005, 10:54 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Digitalfiend
Wow no wonder you are having problems. The fronts should be at least 36psi and the rears 30psi (cold).


having 34PSI has NOTHING to do with his problems.
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