Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Wednesday September 28, 2016
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
Click here to visit TireRack
Tire & Wheel Forum sponsored by The Tire Rack

Losing traction? Need new tires?
Click here to visit the NASIOC Upgrade Garage...
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Tire & Wheel

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads. 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-01-2005, 11:59 PM   #1
downeyer
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 10784
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Columbus, IN
Vehicle:
2002 WRX
Platinum Silver Metallic

Question Hub Ring Fit = Vibration?

Hi all, need some advice from people who know more than I do. I have a set of Enkei RPF-1 rims that came with a non-metal hub ring. It seems like everytime I dismount the tires, my vibration either gets better or worse. I do not rotate the tires, just loosen them and retorque. When torqued with the tires on the ground, the vibration is worse than with the wheels are torqued in the air. My best guess is that this is due to the wheel moving further off-center from the hub center due to the weight of the vehicle. None-the-less, I have vibration in the 70+ mph range with the wheels torqued in the air. At 80mph+, the vibration is ridiculous. I've had the wheel / tire assembly balanced 3 times at 2 different shops. I think the hub ring has too much play and is allowing the wheel to mount off center relative to the hub center. Here is a video showing the hub ring play -> video

Is this amount of play standard or should the hub ring fit tighter? Could this amount of play result in the vibration I am experiencing?

Regards,
Eric
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
downeyer is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Old 08-02-2005, 01:04 AM   #2
esteve
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 28716
Join Date: Nov 2002
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Los Angeles
Vehicle:
2006 STI

Default

I can't see the video, but I have a few ideas. First off, did you get part #HR735615? I think the plastic hub rings are designed to be placed in the wheels first. Since you have to tap the rings into the wheels with your palm (snug fit), being in the wheels first might also compress the rings tighter on the hub.

I would also try a 2-step tightening procedure. Just snug the lugs hand tight first, then torque to spec...probably best to do it in the air or lightly touching the ground.
esteve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2005, 01:31 AM   #3
downeyer
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 10784
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Columbus, IN
Vehicle:
2002 WRX
Platinum Silver Metallic

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by esteve
I can't see the video, but I have a few ideas. First off, did you get part #HR735615? I think the plastic hub rings are designed to be placed in the wheels first. Since you have to tap the rings into the wheels with your palm (snug fit), being in the wheels first might also compress the rings tighter on the hub.

I would also try a 2-step tightening procedure. Just snug the lugs hand tight first, then torque to spec...probably best to do it in the air or lightly touching the ground.
esteve,

thanks for the response. You'll need Apple Quicktime to see the video. I'm not sure which part number hub ring I have...not sure if there is even a part number on the hub ring to be honest. The hub ring easily falls off of the hub, yet fit snugly into the wheel, but not to the point where it would alter the inner diameter. I'll put it this way...when I pull the wheel off of my car, the hub ring usually falls off and onto the ground. There is no compression fit on either side.

I actually do a 3-step tightening procedure (finger tight using loose socket, snug with torque wrench, then tightened to torque), which is probably over kill, but it's what I've always done.

-Eric
downeyer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2005, 01:56 AM   #4
esteve
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 28716
Join Date: Nov 2002
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Los Angeles
Vehicle:
2006 STI

Default

I saw the video now, the hub ring does seem to fit pretty loose. I believe Enkei sourced hub rings don't have the dimensions on the rings, just the packaging. The hub rings I have stay put inside the wheels when I pull them off the car. I think maybe they sent you the wrong ones...I see here that there's a 73 mm wheel/57.10 mm hub size available which is what you might have. It looks like about 1 mm of play in the video.
esteve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2005, 02:08 AM   #5
scoobtothenoog
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 92154
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Lower Alabama
Vehicle:
04 STi
SIL/SIL

Default

see my rant in this thread
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=812357

....hub-centric is the only way to fly.
scoobtothenoog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2005, 10:30 AM   #6
Bundyboyz
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 32764
Join Date: Feb 2003
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Vehicle:
2003 WRX with 91K
New Motor & Paint WRB

Default

that's my thread above

I'm using metal rings with no issues at all... went 96 mph with no issue...

get different rings
Bundyboyz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2005, 11:21 AM   #7
scoobtothenoog
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 92154
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Lower Alabama
Vehicle:
04 STi
SIL/SIL

Default

Hey Bundy, where them pix man? lol
scoobtothenoog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2005, 12:24 PM   #8
downeyer
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 10784
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Columbus, IN
Vehicle:
2002 WRX
Platinum Silver Metallic

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by scoobtothenoog
see my rant in this thread
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=812357

....hub-centric is the only way to fly.
Interesting experience...hopefully I'm not going down the same route. You still have the MSP? I wish I would have bought one when they were heavily discounted due to the arrival of the Mazda3. Of course, I would not have traded the WRX.
downeyer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2005, 12:26 PM   #9
downeyer
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 10784
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Columbus, IN
Vehicle:
2002 WRX
Platinum Silver Metallic

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bundyboyz
that's my thread above

I'm using metal rings with no issues at all... went 96 mph with no issue...

get different rings
Yeah...where's the pics

Where did you get your metal rings from? I'm assuming they came with your new wheels from Discount Tire. Do they fit tighter than what is shown in the movie?
downeyer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2005, 12:40 PM   #10
scoobtothenoog
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 92154
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Lower Alabama
Vehicle:
04 STi
SIL/SIL

Default

downeyer, have we talked on msprotege.com? Nah no more msp, traded it in on a msm this spring, then came to the conclusion I needed more room. And I was tired of drving a car with under 200 ponys, and the rex has som much potential =)
scoobtothenoog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2005, 02:01 PM   #11
downeyer
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 10784
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Columbus, IN
Vehicle:
2002 WRX
Platinum Silver Metallic

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by scoobtothenoog
downeyer, have we talked on msprotege.com? Nah no more msp, traded it in on a msm this spring, then came to the conclusion I needed more room. And I was tired of drving a car with under 200 ponys, and the rex has som much potential =)
I've never posted on msprotege.com, but have read several threads there out of interest. I bet the MSM was a sweet car, but I can understand the room issue. I bet you miss the handling and steering response of the Mazdas though. Although, nothing a few aftermarket parts can't cure on the WRX
downeyer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2005, 02:21 PM   #12
Tire Rack Moderator
 
Member#: 1215
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: The Tire Rack
Vehicle:
800 -428-8355
ext. 4362

Default

those rings certainly do not fit very well ..... and also to avoid other issues have your wheel and tire load force tested on a GSP9700 .... but, I think it's a ring issue
Luke@tirerack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2005, 03:28 PM   #13
Bundyboyz
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 32764
Join Date: Feb 2003
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Vehicle:
2003 WRX with 91K
New Motor & Paint WRB

Default

came with my purchase... I can't compare the fit, as I held on the wheel when mounting. I tighten wheels in the air. Then on the ground I got another half turn on them.
Bundyboyz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2005, 09:05 PM   #14
Z1 Performance
Former Vendor
 
Member#: 9327
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Z1Auto.com
Default

sounds like you got the wrong rings...any tire place should have the right ones

plastic, metal - makes absolutely zero difference....but you need the right size
Z1 Performance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2005, 09:53 AM   #15
Bundyboyz
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 32764
Join Date: Feb 2003
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Vehicle:
2003 WRX with 91K
New Motor & Paint WRB

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Z1 Performance
sounds like you got the wrong rings...any tire place should have the right ones

plastic, metal - makes absolutely zero difference....but you need the right size
I would run metal... there is a difference why else would they make both? Issues may be minor and rare but it would suck if it happened to you... go metal.
Bundyboyz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2005, 10:19 AM   #16
Z1 Performance
Former Vendor
 
Member#: 9327
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Z1Auto.com
Default

there is a difference why else would they make both?

There is an old addage -just because someone makes something does not mean it is worth having.....

I've been doing this long enough to know it makes no difference. The "metal" rings are nothing more than the cheapest form of aluminum you can get - drop them on the floor, and they will literally nick and chip - so how exactly is that going to be more "sturdy" than plastic? There is no real force exerted on these rings - they are purely designed to sqauare the wheel onto the hub of the car so that the lugs can be torqued evenly without "tweaking" the wheel side to side. 95% of the manufacturers out there provide and/or supply plastic rings - they have been used for years without incident. Even the highest end, non hubcentric wheels use plastic rings in the overwhelming majority of the instances. Regardless of what material you get (it really is splitting hairs), the material, be it aluminum, plastic, titanium or steel, won't compensate for the wrong size, which in this case, sounds like the real culprit.

Have you measured the ID and OD of these rings?

The next thing I would also check into is getting the tire and wheel on a road force machine as Luke suggested. I know its a royal PIA to keep bringing it places, but I have had more than one instance of multiple tire places simply being too lazy to balance the wheel properly, or, in more than one instance, their machine was out of calibration, causing inaccurate weight determinations. If you goto Tire Rack's website, they have a listing of dealers by zip code, with their equipment and the number of years they have been an installer. From there, you can find a place with a road force machine and see if there might be an issue with the rim and/or tire
Z1 Performance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2005, 01:17 PM   #17
downeyer
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 10784
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Columbus, IN
Vehicle:
2002 WRX
Platinum Silver Metallic

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Z1 Performance
there is a difference why else would they make both?

Have you measured the ID and OD of these rings?

The next thing I would also check into is getting the tire and wheel on a road force machine as Luke suggested. I know its a royal PIA to keep bringing it places, but I have had more than one instance of multiple tire places simply being too lazy to balance the wheel properly, or, in more than one instance, their machine was out of calibration, causing inaccurate weight determinations. If you goto Tire Rack's website, they have a listing of dealers by zip code, with their equipment and the number of years they have been an installer. From there, you can find a place with a road force machine and see if there might be an issue with the rim and/or tire
I just measured the rings last night. I will post the dimensions tonight.

I'll take your advice and take my car to a TireRack recommended shop and get the road force balance. I've been less than pleased with the Discount Tire shops several times (wheel locks put on finger tight, hub caps not reinstalled properly after tire mounting, etc.). Although, they state that they use the road force balance equipment.

-Eric
downeyer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2005, 01:28 PM   #18
Z1 Performance
Former Vendor
 
Member#: 9327
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Z1Auto.com
Default

72.62mm-56.1mm is the proper size for that wheel on a Subaru FYI - we have literally sold hundreds of the wheels with the above size spacers (plastic), without incident
Z1 Performance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2005, 09:14 PM   #19
esteve
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 28716
Join Date: Nov 2002
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Los Angeles
Vehicle:
2006 STI

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Z1 Performance
72.62mm-56.1mm is the proper size for that wheel on a Subaru FYI - we have literally sold hundreds of the wheels with the above size spacers (plastic), without incident
73 mm would be a better fit would it not?
esteve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2005, 09:34 PM   #20
downeyer
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 10784
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Columbus, IN
Vehicle:
2002 WRX
Platinum Silver Metallic

Default

My measurements of one hub ring are shown below. I measured them using a crude set of calipers and rounding to the nearest 0.5mm. It looks like the OD is off by ~0.5mm based on my measurements. Not what I expected because the hub rings seem to fit nicely into the wheel.





Is it common for the hub rings to be so loose that they fall out of the wheel and off of the hub?

Here are a couple videos showing how loose the hub rings fit to the wheel and hub:

--> Wheel / Hub Ring Video

--> Hub / Hub Ring Video
downeyer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2005, 09:49 PM   #21
Z1 Performance
Former Vendor
 
Member#: 9327
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Z1Auto.com
Default

they should slide on and off the hub with minimal effort, but snap into the wheel

if you need/want to try another set, let me know
Z1 Performance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2005, 10:21 PM   #22
downeyer
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 10784
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Columbus, IN
Vehicle:
2002 WRX
Platinum Silver Metallic

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Z1 Performance
they should slide on and off the hub with minimal effort, but snap into the wheel

if you need/want to try another set, let me know
Sent PM...
downeyer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2005, 10:47 PM   #23
ChrisDP
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 5879
Join Date: Apr 2001
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Richmond,VA
Vehicle:
'02 WRX SDN 5MT
STS Civic, ITA Integra

Default

My plastic rings weren't very round after a few track sessions. My aluminum ones still are.
ChrisDP is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
FS IL: Evo X MR BBS Rims, lugs, and hub rings to fit 05+ STI JM530 Wheels/Tires 10 05-14-2010 12:49 PM
66.1mm hub ring on a 66.06mm hub Nowski Tire & Wheel 5 05-10-2009 02:00 AM
Warped front hub/rotor driveline vibration Aprilia Jon Brakes, Steering & Suspension 4 09-27-2002 01:12 PM
not hubcentric rims, w/o hub rings=danger? Endlesshine Brakes, Steering & Suspension 1 09-24-2002 02:25 PM
Hubcentric vs. hub rings AWDconvert Brakes, Steering & Suspension 10 04-03-2002 11:29 AM

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:46 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2016 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2016, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.