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Old 08-02-2005, 12:24 PM   #1
Chromer
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Default Any interest in a northern-maine gravel TSD rally?

Would anyone be interested in participating (or working) in a northern Maine (geographically central) road rally? Millinocket, and surrounding area, about 3 hours north of Portland up I-95 - but a totally different world.

Driving map

Probably an endurance event, could be up to 250 miles total. Longest leg could have up to 70 miles of uninterrupted gravelly goodness on private logging roads. Very MFR-like roads, but even more isolated and empty. Start and finish at a hotel with bar. Some night miles. Come see our mountains, trees, lakes, and moose. Get them dusty.

Just trying to judge interest to see if it's worth putting in the work to take it to the SCCA to get sanctioning, etc.
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Old 08-02-2005, 12:35 PM   #2
kaisersouse
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There is also the stud mill road. Dont know how they feel about stuff like this tho (entrances in old town area as well as aurora/amhearst etc).
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Old 08-02-2005, 12:40 PM   #3
DustinR
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Im game. Work or play depending on what is needed.

-Dustin
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Old 08-02-2005, 12:51 PM   #4
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For a TSD? Sure! Can we make it during the middle of the winter, too?
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Old 08-02-2005, 01:11 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JGard
For a TSD? Sure! Can we make it during the middle of the winter, too?
I dunno. The first guy on the road would have a tough time making CAS with a snowplow on the front of his rig...
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Old 08-02-2005, 01:13 PM   #6
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You're talking a tall order here. To pull off such an event with the tangled web of north woods landowners, towns, unorganized townships, sheriffs, etc, whoo-wee!!

To assemble the array of administrative and rally-operations people you'd need would require the support of a well-connected club with rally expertise. SCCA North East Region is a likely candidate, as would be Cumberland Motor Club. One of the hard things would be to schedule this event so it fits in around other performance rallies. The type of event you're proposing would (and probably should) scare off a lot of newbies, and much of the field would be regular rally crews running in TSD mode in fairly well prepped cars (not caged racers but w/skidplates, rally computers, etc).

This is not to say it's impossible, hey they run the wild n wooly Vermont Winter Rally in the Burlington area. Moving such an event north to Maine would def hamper the turnout, though. NER has found that rallyX events in Maine draw much smaller fields than the same events in more southerly locations.

Count me in, anyway! And winter...??!! Oh yeah.

Dave G
www.lastditchracing.net
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Old 08-02-2005, 01:24 PM   #7
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If you have connections to assure the permisisons that might apply to various of those roads, Go for it! The Trunkmonkey team's planning their next TSD as a winter rally, and if Ted talks John Buffum into doing VT Winter again, a 'series' of 3 or more real winter rallies could develop a following.....with snow & ice there's less 'gravelrash', should attract more Beemers & Jags.......No? (Bring back 'TriState'? yeehaw! screech! forgot that $3 a gallon gas price expected by fall....)
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Old 08-02-2005, 02:41 PM   #8
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yes, if there might be prorated by distance entires...wishful thinking but it'd probably entice some of us from the "south"
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Old 08-02-2005, 02:52 PM   #9
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I've been to atleast one TSD where they gave a prize for farthest away. So maybe you will get a cheaper fair. You'll just have to pay for your tshirt.

-Dustin
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Old 08-02-2005, 03:25 PM   #10
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I'm game!

But I suggest forgetting about the whole "asking for permission" nonsense.

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Old 08-02-2005, 03:58 PM   #11
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Landowners are legally required to allow public access to any bodies of water wholly enclosed by their property that are over 4 acres in size. So each team just needs to have a temporary fishing license. I'll make it part of the supps...
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Old 08-02-2005, 04:07 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chromer
Landowners are legally required to allow public access to any bodies of water wholly enclosed by their property that are over 4 acres in size. So each team just needs to have a temporary fishing license. I'll make it part of the supps...
if you guys do this ill help any way i can. I cant drive in it because my OBS is my daily driver i dont want to kill it yet (what a glorious death it would be tho) but i can offer support, do any web stuff you need (website, promotional stuff) for FREE (i can host make sites set up email accts etc etc. anything you guys need)...you name it.

My wife is good with a camera and she's bent on taking pictures at the VT thing and she would definately be up for camera work at the event.

But re-read the website/computer stuff. I have plenty of space, plenty of bandwidth and plenty of site experience to hook you up when the time comes.
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Old 08-02-2005, 04:32 PM   #13
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You can take your daily driver. TSD rallies are NOT difficult on your car at all! Just throw some snow tires and steel wheels and you'll be fine. Seriously...everything is run at the road's speed limit.
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Old 08-02-2005, 04:36 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JGard
You can take your daily driver. TSD rallies are NOT difficult on your car at all! Just throw some snow tires and steel wheels and you'll be fine. Seriously...everything is run at the road's speed limit.
oh oh oh REALLLLLY!!!

im an idiot: what does TSD mean?
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Old 08-02-2005, 04:41 PM   #15
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Time Speed Distance.

Basically, you're given directions and an average speed over a certain set of roads. You do your best to keep that speed throughout the entire rally and in each stage. The winner is the person who finished closest to the proper time/avg. speed, and not who finished fastest.
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Old 08-02-2005, 04:43 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JGard
Time Speed Distance.

Basically, you're given directions and an average speed over a certain set of roads. You do your best to keep that speed throughout the entire rally and in each stage. The winner is the person who finished closest to the proper time/avg. speed, and not who finished fastest.
most interesting

so if i have 20 minutes to get to target, the winner gets there in 20 minutes...not 19 not 21 (im hypothesizing here). What if the avg speed is 50 but the person has to hit 60 to make up for lost time?
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Old 08-02-2005, 04:52 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaisersouse
most interesting

so if i have 20 minutes to get to target, the winner gets there in 20 minutes...not 19 not 21 (im hypothesizing here). What if the avg speed is 50 but the person has to hit 60 to make up for lost time?
All that matters is the average. Technically you can take a time allowance and say like "there was a yak in the road on stage twelve, i was 1 minute and 15 seconds slow" and they don't factor that into your penalty. Most people will just speed where they have to, in an attempt to be on time.
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Old 08-02-2005, 05:02 PM   #18
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Its like Cannonball Run, except with less Burt Reynolds.
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Old 08-02-2005, 05:38 PM   #19
Chromer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by runnah
Its like Cannonball Run, except with less Burt Reynolds.
Uh, yeah. And without the speeding, the police chases, and the truckload of beer. No wait, the truck is at the finish line...

Quote:
Remember that each leg of the rally is independent of the others. If you are
late on one leg, you cannot make it up on the next. Also, a time, speed,
distance rally is not a race! At no time are you required or allowed to break
any motor vehicle laws.

Disqualification from the event will be assessed for any ticketed violation of
motor vehicle laws and/or consuming an alcoholic beverage or illegal
substance just before or during a rally.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jtree
yes, if there might be prorated by distance entires...wishful thinking but it'd probably entice some of us from the "south"
Yeah, we'll have to arrange extra time allowances for you "southerners," 'cause you aren't used to driving 50 miles at a shot without seeing a traffic light, stop sign, or toll booth. It would be too disorienting...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JGard
For a TSD? Sure! Can we make it during the middle of the winter, too?
I'll try to find out what gets plowed and what doesn't. Looks like February might be open on the NER calendar? At least, it was this year. OTOH, February in the Katahdin region is a whole different definition of cold. It would be tough on the workers.

Last edited by Chromer; 08-02-2005 at 05:59 PM.
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Old 08-02-2005, 10:41 PM   #20
ReZDoG
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mismatched..

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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaisersouse
There is also the stud mill road. Dont know how they feel about stuff like this tho (entrances in old town area as well as aurora/amhearst etc).
thats what I was thinking myself.. and winter would be AWESOME.. Nite would be ever better.. only issue with studmill is that there is about 5-7 land onwers from Milford to Princeton.. but there is about 250 miles of road that is all linked..... I've been out there almost every day learning the road.. and driving them.. well, uuntil I blew my tranny today.. but If ther eis intrest, I'll go ahead and set it up... maybe get a rallyX going in Bangor the same weekend..
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Old 08-03-2005, 07:41 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JGard
You can take your daily driver. TSD rallies are NOT difficult on your car at all!
I'm guessing you did not run JB's NER rally last January where 3 cars crashed out and left on a flat bed. I have no idea how many offs there were, but I know my co-driver and I pulled two other cars out ourselves.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rummy
Technically you can take a time allowance and say like "there was a yak in the road on stage twelve, i was 1 minute and 15 seconds slow" and they don't factor that into your penalty.
Time allowances have to be on the even half minute. So you would have to take a 1 minute 30 second TA in this case. Some events used to hit you with a penalty for taking a TA, but that was banned by the SCCA a few months ago.

Quote:
Remember that each leg of the rally is independent of the others. If you are
late on one leg, you cannot make it up on the next.
Again, depends on the rally. For example JB's rally last January used open CP's where you were given 1 minute at each and your time was not reset. So if you pulled into CP 3 five minutes late, you headed off to CP 4 already being five minutes behind. IMHO this was part of what caused so many accidents.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chromer
I'll try to find out what gets plowed and what doesn't. Looks like February might be open on the NER calendar? At least, it was this year.
The Trunkmonkey Midnight Run was moved to Febuary so as not to conflict with Witches Brew in October (which of course has been canceled *again*). Its not on the site but they finally listed it correctly in Pit Talk. I also did this so folks would have a slower speed alternative to JB's rally.

Dude, I have not opened the NRI's you sent me yet as I was considering running it and did not want to look. If you are serious about doing this in Febuary, I would be willing to give up the Trunkmonkey spot on the calender in Febuary and give you a hand with this.

My only three requirements:
1) Need to have it towards the beginning of the month
2) Would prefer to have it on a Saturday (so I can be back for ice racing on Sunday )
3) No insane speeds so folks that don't want to do the ProRally style JB event have another winter option. (read in no CAS 50 in a 30 and pulling trash bags over the speed limit signs )

If the above sounds cool let me know.

Chris
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Old 08-03-2005, 10:15 AM   #22
Chromer
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Nah, don't give up your Midnight Run slot. Is December left open on the calendar because of the holidays? There is *normally* a decent amount of snow on the ground here by mid-December. It's a bit of a crapshoot though. I could also potentially do late March and it will still be winter up here. Some conflict with Frost Heave and Cape Cod Old Timers, but 2 weeks after Frost Heave and a different audience than Cape Cod - Gimmick vs. straightforward, south vs. north, semi-urban vs. extremely rural.

I kind of like the idea of a 3-state Northern New England "King of Winter" mini-series...

I'll fictionalize the distances, scramble the order and re-send that to you. It was a small section of one leg, and if it goes in the winter I probably won't be able to use it anyway. Was just looking for a formatting check.
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Old 08-03-2005, 11:54 AM   #23
RB5 Clone
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Default schedule angst

pleez pleez double- and triple-check other rally scheds before picking your date for what sounds like an achievable and super cool event.

make sure you don't go up against Ontario Winter Rally, grandaddy of the winter TSDs (it's generally run mid-Feb). ditto for Maine Forest Winter (early Dec), if you go up against that you'll never get enough workers.

for Canadian events, check http://209.250.151.132/CARSRally/

rally-america.com
nasarallysport.com

cheers,

Dave G

PS--the challenge of running TSDs in your daily driver is the tradeoff between pushing when you fall behind, and yet knowing you also have to drive the car home! this sounds like it will NOT be a gentle, "gentlemanly" kind of event. Even with leg speeds pegged below the legal limit, over the course of 250+ miles you will likely have to really hustle sooner or later. minimum car prep will be rally computer, dedicated snows, skidplates, and additional lighting.
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Old 08-03-2005, 11:58 AM   #24
runnah
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RB5 Clone
, and additional lighting.

I just put in some groovy track lighting, so Im good to go!

Serioiusly tho what kind of setup would be good? I have two hella 500 that replaced my stock foggers.

Maybe a set of pencils?
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Old 08-03-2005, 12:29 PM   #25
RB5 Clone
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Lightbulb brite lite ideas

"...maybe a set of pencils...?"

I prefer Sharpies, they make your numbers easier to read on a ruff road.




Your setup with Hella 500s in stock fog slots is a nice start. My TSD RS is set up with stock headlights upgraded with 60/100w Super Blue bulbs, plus 2 Hella FF1000 driving lamps (nice broad and brite pattern w/100w H1 Super Blue bulbs) and stock RS fogs upgraded with 100w Super Blue H3 bulbs. it's nice to have the fogs because the lower light pattern really helps in snow or fog/rain when the big driving lamps just blind you. H500s in the stock fog location leaves their pencil beam type pattern a little low but still usable. Main issue with your current setup is that the low-mounted 500s are prone to snowbank hits.

main goal of add'l lighting is to give you a better view farther down the road to deal with upcoming bends, plus up-close broad beam to show exactly what the surface right in front of you is. Both functions are crucial when driving briskly on unknown roads--you're always searching for whatever surface gives the most grip.

Driving lamps need to be wired so they go off when you flick off high beams. With super brite stock fogs you need to be mindful of oncoming traffic (flick em off manually) and/or in Quiet Zones so marshals don't bust ya.

DG
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