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Old 08-02-2005, 05:18 PM   #1
Tgui
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Lightbulb Nitrous + TMIC

All,

I've seen a few kits that allow one to mist an intercooler with N20 to bring down air temps. I'd like to try it at some point, but something is bothering me.

Don't call me crazy, but take this situation to the extreme. If I was willing to mist every 30 seconds or so during a 30 minute track session, would condensation become an issue.

In short, given a hot humid day, I am constantly below dew point thanks to my active cooling... well.. will condensation cause problems?

Thoughts welcome!

EDIT: ALSO, I'd love to know know where I might find info on the stock USDM STi TMIC. Efficiency, CFM, internal & external surface areas. Anyone? I guess CFM at a certain height of water column would be most helpful .

EDIT #2: I should clarify, condensation INSIDE the intercooler.. I have fears of water trickling into the intake manifold.

-Eric-
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Last edited by Tgui; 08-03-2005 at 05:57 PM.
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Old 08-02-2005, 05:37 PM   #2
T_Rex
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liquid nitrous isnt going to be an issue. lol. liquid nitrous is like a bazillion degrees below freezing, it wouldnt last half a second under your hood. the frozen intercooler would, but i doubt your going to be able to collect any sort of condensation (even from water) i have one of these kits going on (hopefully this weekend) i'll shoot you a pm on how it works.
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Old 08-02-2005, 05:40 PM   #3
Tgui
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T_Rex
liquid nitrous isnt going to be an issue. lol. liquid nitrous is like a bazillion degrees below freezing, it wouldnt last half a second under your hood. the frozen intercooler would, but i doubt your going to be able to collect any sort of condensation (even from water) i have one of these kits going on (hopefully this weekend) i'll shoot you a pm on how it works.
Thanks, I appreciate it!
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Old 08-03-2005, 05:57 PM   #4
Tgui
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Anyone?
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Old 08-04-2005, 09:17 AM   #5
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Why would you give a rats ass about condensation? What do you think happens when it rains, or when the STI water sprayer douses the TMIC down with water??
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Old 08-04-2005, 03:33 PM   #6
Tgui
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davenow
Why would you give a rats ass about condensation? What do you think happens when it rains, or when the STI water sprayer douses the TMIC down with water??
Think of condensation on the INSIDE of the intercooler. For that matter, ice build up. I have no qualms using an entire bottle for a say a 15 minute session.

The high velocity of pressurized air passing through the intercooler might negate my concerns, but I've not seen solid evidence either way.


Ya know, that RATS ASS ??
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Old 08-04-2005, 03:42 PM   #7
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I think what he's worried about is large chunks of Ice or pooling of liquid water in the intercooler being sucked up into the intake manifold in a high humidity climate due to sudden chilling of ambient air in a confined space. IE condensing water out of the air. Unfortunately I have no answer for this but if anyone does I would REALLY like to hear it myself.

Nick
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Old 08-04-2005, 11:05 PM   #8
Tgui
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Equinox
I think what he's worried about is large chunks of Ice or pooling of liquid water in the intercooler being sucked up into the intake manifold in a high humidity climate due to sudden chilling of ambient air in a confined space. IE condensing water out of the air. Unfortunately I have no answer for this but if anyone does I would REALLY like to hear it myself.

Nick
YES! A man who understands the question. Anyone have an idea of the answer?

-Eric-
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Old 08-04-2005, 11:46 PM   #9
maestro
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You're probably dealing with air that is moving too quickly to condense or if any condensation occurs, it is too miniscule an amount to be concerned with. If this was a concern, I don't think these products would be around.
A very interesting query though; It makes a lot of sense.

I have been leery of these IC sprayers for another reason though: Aluminum fatigues easily and constantly freezing it and then heating it could warp/crack the IC, correct? That's my thinking anyway...
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Old 08-05-2005, 08:56 AM   #10
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I read that the benefits of this style kit were so minimal you were better off with the generic water spraying of the intercooler. Somewhere on NASIOC some guys did a DYI kit and decided it was a crap idea that wasn't worth it.

Look into the benefits of methanol or water injection kits. They do a better job of removing the heat.
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Old 08-05-2005, 09:19 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteDucati
Look into the benefits of methanol or water injection kits. They do a better job of removing the heat.
So far that has been the single best mod to keep the performance consistant through high ambient temps.
Really hot days with WI don't have the power loss that I would see without it.

TMS
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Old 08-05-2005, 09:50 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tgui
Think of condensation on the INSIDE of the intercooler. For that matter, ice build up. I have no qualms using an entire bottle for a say a 15 minute session.

The high velocity of pressurized air passing through the intercooler might negate my concerns, but I've not seen solid evidence either way.


Ya know, that RATS ASS ??

Yeah that one

You nailed it right on the head though, the velocity of the pressurized air is going to keep the IC dry, and the TINY bit of condensation is just going to cool the intake charge that much more. Not a bad thing. Think of it as about 2% of the benefit of water injection.

Besides, you really should TUNE for something like freezing your IC. Phil from Element told me that the nitrous sprayed onto intercooler kits lean the charge down enough to cause detonation and had to be tuned for. He said it was roughly a 15whp gain once tuned for it.
Its not something you could run the map for all the time though, as since its tuned for it, you would have to spray it almost nonstop. Great for drag racing though.
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Old 08-05-2005, 11:38 AM   #13
Tgui
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maestro
You're probably dealing with air that is moving too quickly to condense or if any condensation occurs, it is too miniscule an amount to be concerned with. If this was a concern, I don't think these products would be around.
A very interesting query though; It makes a lot of sense.

I have been leery of these IC sprayers for another reason though: Aluminum fatigues easily and constantly freezing it and then heating it could warp/crack the IC, correct? That's my thinking anyway...
I'd not worry about metal fatigue. I'd rather not pour over my old material sciences books.... so my argument at this point would be, consider the aluminum radiators used in window AC units. On - off - on -off...etc.. hot - cold - hot etc..

Crap.. now you got me thinking.. the linear expansion coeff of Aluminum is pretty high, though thinking back, manufacturers usually start worrying about fatigue after 10^3 - 10^5 cycles. Since I'd only be putting my intercooler under relatively low cyclic thermal load, I'd not worry about it.


edit: Some info on the web for you
http://www.key-to-steel.com/Articles/Art142.htm
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Old 08-05-2005, 12:03 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tgui
I'd not worry about metal fatigue. I'd rather not pour over my old material sciences books.... so my argument at this point would be, consider the aluminum radiators used in window AC units. On - off - on -off...etc.. hot - cold - hot etc..

Crap.. now you got me thinking.. the linear expansion coeff of Aluminum is pretty high, though thinking back, manufacturers usually start worrying about fatigue after 10^3 - 10^5 cycles. Since I'd only be putting my intercooler under relatively low cyclic thermal load, I'd not worry about it.


edit: Some info on the web for you
http://www.key-to-steel.com/Articles/Art142.htm
You have to take into account the rubber seals used on the OEM TMIC. The end tanks are crimped and use a rubber seal to make the IC air tight.

TMS
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Old 08-05-2005, 12:14 PM   #15
Tgui
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMadScientist
You have to take into account the rubber seals used on the OEM TMIC. The end tanks are crimped and use a rubber seal to make the IC air tight.

TMS
Brittle rubber, good thought. I don't think the rubber seals would see enough deflection/deformation from the thermal loads to worry.

Screw bench physics, I should just try it.
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Old 08-05-2005, 03:25 PM   #16
2RIP
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http://meanstreet.net/VehiclespecificWRXpage1.htm

They have an intercooler "chiller" kit there by NX. Thats what im planning on getting.
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Old 08-05-2005, 03:27 PM   #17
PeteDucati
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Listen.. you guys are hell bent on spending money on something that isn't going to give you the bang you're looking for. PLEASE consider methanol injection.. it's a much better answer than spraying your intercooler with nitrogen. www.smcenterprises.com Call them.. they love to talk.

Someone here had the NX kit and felt it was the biggest waste of money.
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Old 08-05-2005, 03:53 PM   #18
Tgui
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteDucati
Listen.. you guys are hell bent on spending money on something that isn't going to give you the bang you're looking for. PLEASE consider methanol injection.. it's a much better answer than spraying your intercooler with nitrogen. www.smcenterprises.com Call them.. they love to talk.

Someone here had the NX kit and felt it was the biggest waste of money.
I know about the kits from SMC.

No one here is sure of the benefits. I've hear both good an bad reviews. As mentioned earlier PDX found 15whp with these kits if tuned for it.

Water/methanol injection is nice and whatnot, and probably would give me more power, but I'm only interested in a frigid TMIC at this point.

Thanks though.
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