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Old 08-12-2005, 08:41 PM   #1
HamFist
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Default Where can I shove this?...and other rrfpr n00bish questions.





This is my Belltech regulator and my 00 RS. Anyone have any clue where I can stuff this thing? I know how to route the plumbing and adjust the fuel pressure and bleed valve. But, where the hell can I mount this thing? Newer rrfpr's are smaller and easier to mount. This thing is about 4x4 inches across and high and weighs about 1lb. There's easy access to the return line on the drivers side fender. But there's no easy place to mount it without moving my fuel filter or ditching my wiper reservior.

I no t3h grap...
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Last edited by HamFist; 08-15-2005 at 04:06 PM.
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Old 08-12-2005, 11:05 PM   #2
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just based on yur thread title I have to say in your @.


Sorry had too





bolt it to your firewall
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Old 08-13-2005, 02:15 AM   #3
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You can ALWAYS count on me to try and do something creative with a thread title .

I just finished the fuel pump installation. There was ONE damn nut that wouldn't come off of the gas tank "plate" holding the pump in. I hate fighting just ONE stubborn nut/bolt for 2 hours. Once I get the regulator mounted I can jack up my fuel pressure and go after the ethanol again. Short of getting a small custom bracket made for the regulator, I was just curious if there was a more obvious spot to put it that I missed. I'd still have to get a bracket made to bolt it to the firewall. Most of the rrfpr pictures that came up on a search were done there or attached to the TMIC some way.
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Old 08-13-2005, 02:42 AM   #4
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i had that same RRFPR before, and I just zip tied it to the fuel lines. Good idea? maybe not. Pretty? nope. Worked? Yep.
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Old 08-14-2005, 01:54 PM   #5
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Zip ties. I hate zip ties. Buuuuuuuuttt....hmmm.
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Old 08-14-2005, 05:23 PM   #6
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These are pressure readings AFTER the 255lph Walbro fuel pump install. the rrfpr isn't in yet. I didn't check the pre-255 pump pressures before I installed the pump, sorry.

12psi, return line pressure
55psi, baseline pressure

I'm glad I double checked this stuff before I cut any lines. My fuel pressure readings are a little weird. I was checking the pressure in the return line since that was where the instructions said to install the regulator. It kept reading about 12-14psi. (Dubya tee eff? Oops, n00b!) So I hook it up to the sending line after the fuel filter, lo-and-behold it's right at 55-ish psi. Shouldn't idle pressure normally be about 45?

So, I know I'm supposed to install the rrfpr on the return line. But, do I hook my gauge up on the inlet line to check the pressure? It makes more sense now. I'm just being anally thorough .
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Old 08-14-2005, 05:48 PM   #7
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yes, the gauge stays on the inlet line after the filter. The RRFPR goes on return line. I don't remember what the actual numbers where, but the Bell unit I had let me adjust idle pressure as well as increasing with boost.
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Old 08-14-2005, 06:22 PM   #8
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Cool. I was kind of wondering if it'd let me adjust idle pressure. I know I'm supposed to leave the stock fpr in place. Do I plug it's vacuum signal line at all? I wasn't sure if I should plug it and steal its signal port for the rrfpr or not.
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Old 08-14-2005, 09:04 PM   #9
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Definitely not, you need both stock and the Bell working.
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Old 08-15-2005, 02:27 AM   #10
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Hmm...weird.

The car drives like the mixture is rich, now. That's what it's supposed to do while it's still on gas. There's a blubbery feel to the throttle, surging, and a bit of a spitting backfire. (That's not a complaint or something unexpected.) I'm at 55psi base pressure. I didn't measure it at WOT, but I bet it would be near 60 if not more. That was where I was told to put it by Venom Performance. (I forget his name...nice guy and a bit of a smart ass, too ) If I'm there without the rrfpr, then it doesn't need to be there that badly. The only way to know is to find out. I'll get down to 1/4 tank and fill up with E85 again and see what happens. I may regret not having the rrfpr there, but signs look good so far. What IF it only takes a high flow fuel pump to run ethanol on the N/A cars??? That's good news! We'll just have to see.
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Old 08-15-2005, 12:21 PM   #11
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I thought that the 43psi is the total pressure and you've got that already (inlet pressure is 55 - the return pressure of 12 = 43)
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Old 08-15-2005, 12:31 PM   #12
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??????????????????

I've never head of it measured that way. Is that how you do it?

(Such is t3h n00bish viewpoints of unb00st3d individuals.)

Last edited by HamFist; 08-15-2005 at 12:53 PM.
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Old 08-15-2005, 01:01 PM   #13
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Undo all the FPR vacuum hoses and idle the car. You should see 43-44psi. Add the vacuum hose to the normal FPR, you should see 32-34psi. You should see the same when you add the hose to the RRFPR.
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Old 08-15-2005, 01:27 PM   #14
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Shouldn't there be a FAQ on this stuff somewhere? I looked at scoobymods, ravensblade, here, rs25, and i-club...and NADA! Just something on the basics of checking fuel pressures and tuning with it without forum static would be nice. I know a lot of this stuff has been asked before. You know how I hate beating dead horses . There isn't anything in the n/a forum on this stuff. I posted over here because the boosted guys are the only ones who install these things.

For instance, how am I getting rich running behavior with the same pressure as stock?
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Old 08-15-2005, 06:22 PM   #15
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Hmmm, definitely sounds like fun...

That said, the only pressure you are interested in is the pressure seen by the injectors, so that is what you need to measure (on the inlet line).

It sounds almost as if the walbro is overpowering the stock FPRs ability to bleed off pressure at idle causing your base pressure to be so high and the car to run rich. Is your pump the HP version or the regular 255?

BEGi has quite in-depth instructions available on their website which may help you to get the system running properly:

http://www.bellengineering.net/Pages/products_FPR.html
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Old 08-15-2005, 10:05 PM   #16
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Just FYI, this is a pic of my setup, in particular the RRFPR on the firewall.
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Old 08-16-2005, 01:16 AM   #17
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Okay, progress notes . I read both links, too. Thanks guys. One thing on IowaRS' install pic. I have some 90 degree aluminum I could make a bracket out of. I was worried about mounting it with just one side though. Did you ever worry about your bracket,firewall, or the fpr cracking? My aluminum pieces are a bit smaller than your bracket, but are 1/4in. thick 90-degree sections.

I got my gauge completely installed and leak free. It needs Subaru specific line, though. The 9.5mm Goodyear fuel line from Autozone is just a touch too loose. The Suby stuff is NICE and snug. It's almost too snug, which is where I'd rather have it. Burning alive from a loose clamp just doesn't appeal to me. BTW, I used petroleum safe teflon-sealant tape and was VERY careful about coating the threads ONLY. Any debris left in the little chamber could get in the fuel system and make trouble. Just make sure it's on the threads and not covering the oriface facing at all.


The base pressure is sitting right at 54psi at idle. Give it gas and it drops a touch. Go to redline and it stays in that little dip until you let off the gas. It never drops to 50. But I can't read it with a load until I get it on the dyno. I think it might drop a touch further under load. The gauge sits after the fuel filter and before the fuel rail on the drivers side. Is the 54psi pressure consistent with what others have seen? The FPR is GSS342. I don't know if that's the hi-po version or not.

I want and expect the rich running behavior while still running gas. 11:1 on gas is still too lean compared to ethanol. When it almost WON'T run being too rich on gas is when it'll be happy on ethanol. 60-70psi should do the trick, theoretically. Almost there, too .
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Old 08-16-2005, 09:40 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HamFist
The base pressure is sitting right at 54psi at idle. Give it gas and it drops a touch.
Sounds like your fuel pump is overpowering your stock FPR. Get your hands on a stock SVX or XT6 FPR and that will solve the problems. I *think* a WRX one will work, but I've never compared them side by side.

XT6 FPR --> http://www.projectwrx.com/8Complex/s.../fprswap01.jpg
Next to RS one mounted --> http://www.projectwrx.com/8Complex/s.../fprswap02.jpg
Next to RS on off car --> http://www.projectwrx.com/8Complex/s.../fprswap03.jpg
Mounted on the car --> http://www.projectwrx.com/8Complex/s.../fprswap04.jpg

Note: I called around junkyards I found on www.car-part.com and got mine used for $35 shipped. I think new is like $200 or so. Just make sure it's an XT6 (specifically 6 cylinder) or an SVX (which all have 6's).
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Old 08-16-2005, 11:10 AM   #19
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I've heard of this SVX fuel regulator trick. Am I at risk of blowing out the stock FPR? If not, I'd like to leave it alone. $35 is cheap insurance, though. I'd likely order one.

Here's a thought. I need the higher pressure, even at idle. I'd be accomplishing the same thing by upping the pressure with a rrfpr. I'm just not sure if "overpowering" the regulator is the right term. Maybe "restriction"? I'd essentially be doing that same "overpowering" with the rrfpr anyway. There's still plenty of fuel coming back in the return line. (Enough to make 12-14psi in the return line.) If my current return line pressure is the same as stock, and the rail pressure is higher, then I'd believe you 100% saying the stock FPR a restriction. It's my fault for not checking the return line pressure with the stock pump anyway. We'd know for sure if we had that figure.

What about clamping off the return line just a touch? Perhaps maybe even a small metal restrictor of sorts placed in the return line? I know it sounds a bit crazy, but that higher rail pressure is still the point to achieve in the end. I'm about 5-15psi less than where it needs to be. Is there a small metal ring I could place in the return line? There's a small metal ring in the fuel line in the tank connected the pump to the armature. I had to be careful putting it back in when it popped out. Is that little ring a restrictor or more to keep the fuel line in shape?

Wheee!
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Old 08-16-2005, 02:35 PM   #20
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It sounds to me like you need to take a step back and look at exactly what you're trying to achieve with your setup.

From the sounds of your posts you want a base pressure of 60-70psi and a rising rate referencing boost?

A word of warning, unless your pump is the HP version (which it probably isn't) the flow will drop off dramatically over about 70psi.

http://www.autoperformanceengineerin...l/fpspecs.html

You are probably not going to be able to reliably achieve these kinds of pressures using the oem + BEGi setup you have, as it really isn't designed for this kind of service. The only reason you're seeing such high pressures is that the pump is almost definitely flowing more fuel at idle than the stock fpr can bleed off. This is bad because if the flow rate drops your pressure will drop back to stock.

If you want to run such high pressures with any degree of reliability you need to find a standalone FPR that will give you the pressures you need. Depending on how high your max pressure might be at full boost you may also need a HP version pump.

Honestly though, it sounds like larger injectors would allow you to run more normal fuel pressures, which will in turn put less stress on your pump and lines, and possibly allow to to come up with a system that will work with the oem (or svx/wrx) + BEGi fpr setup.
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Old 08-16-2005, 03:35 PM   #21
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I agree with you, but it's not for boost. I'm trying to switch to ethanol on an n/a car . It basically wants almost double the fuel delivery of stock for a happy mixture. I wouldn't go over 70-80psi in the fuel rails. I know it sounds kind of high, but I'm trying to make the stock injectors work with this. 00 RS' are kind of short on options for upgraded fuel injectors. I'm setting my base pressure to where most of you guys would have it only under boost. Yeah, I DO hope it lives.
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Old 08-16-2005, 04:14 PM   #22
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Ok, in that case ditch the stock fpr and the BEGi and just use a standalone aftermarket fpr which will allow you to accurately dial in whatever base pressure you need and will work properly with the vacuum setup that the ecu expects.

AFAIK the Aeromotives are only rated to 70psi, you may be able to get more out of the AEM. In any case these kinds of pressures are going to be pushing the limits of the injector o-rings and other fuel system seals.

Good luck!
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Old 08-17-2005, 02:27 AM   #23
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**EDIT:Where do I gap my hotter plugs?"


Hmmm....All this from JUST a fuel pump. Pressure is still at 55psi.

I filled up on E85 tonight. 3/4 tank of E85 and 1/4 tank of 87 that was left in it. So, say 60%? It didn't have much of a bog on E85 before the fuel pump. It had a bad one at first but went away. The pickup is nice, but the throttle response doesn't quiet feel like it's there. I used to be slapped into the headrest with crisp response. It feels like a full throttle bog, despite being pretty darn smooth.

The noise is different now. It has a GT2 Porche rev to it. Kinda F1, kinda not. "RRRREEEEOOOWWWW." It's sexy . Some might say it's a coffee can rattle, but it's a very deep and shrill compression pop that only n/a motors make. It seems like most boosted engines have an angry truck type of sound.

The cliffhanger is the CEL. I haven't reset the ECU just to see what it does. It's only got 40 miles on it since everything came together. The last one took a while to come on, and then would stay on. Reset the ECU and it would come on before 40 miles. Usually it came on with the A/C. It would try to croak at idle with the A/C on from a decel. It purrs like a kitten now except for that bogging behavior. The A/C behavior is gone. Flicks it on and the revs don't skip a beat. 1500k-3ish bogs a touch if you floor it. It's fine getting in to it but feels like it fades the more gas you give it. That's while it sounds like its loading up, too.

Summary: Hotter plugs are next. Running rich on this stuff is very good . Too rich means there's room to work without jacking the pressure any higher than it is. The rrfpr still isn't installed. This is good news for the lazy .
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