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Old 08-18-2005, 04:51 AM   #1
sepulcherx
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Default Tuning on cob AP?

I see that you can download pre setup maps, but can you take this to a tuner and have it adjusted even further? or get custom maps done?

Thanks
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Old 08-18-2005, 05:29 AM   #2
wigglesxjr
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Yes, but they need to use the Cobb licensed ProTuner software.

I think that RiftsWRX on the boards here does tunes (based out of IL?)...Just look around on the Cobb site for the nearest Protuner. I went to Dan Harman at Harman Motive in Torrance, CA (http://www.harmanmotive.com) for my ProTune, and couldn't be happier.

-JT
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Old 08-18-2005, 01:24 PM   #3
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How much extra HP can a someone with the ProTuner software extract in addition to the off-the-shelf HP and torque numbers?

I'm currently running 225 HP (to the wheels) and 217 ft/lb of torque on my Stage 2.
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Old 08-18-2005, 01:47 PM   #4
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From what I've seen from other guys not much at all. Two guys I know of on another board are actually getting less HP than that with their Protune, stage 2.....no idea how. From what I've heard, a Protune won't get you squat for power, but it will smooth out the powerband and make your car run nicer. Protune is by far not a power mod, from what I've seen so far anyway.
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Old 08-18-2005, 01:54 PM   #5
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ursmother please stop spreading misinformation mkaay.

basically it depends on mods and where you want your tuner to tune you to. CObbs base maps are still pretty rich and can be leaned out depending on what octane you run. I watched jorge tune a stage 2 car and get something like 17 ftlbs of tq and 20 some hp.
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Old 08-18-2005, 02:03 PM   #6
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more power can be had...numbers depends on the tuner and what you have done out side of the stage 2 specs........

ursmother: dynos produce different numbers and maybe the tuner that did the tune wasnt as skilled as other tuners that are producing good numbers?(not trying to discredit the other tuner) cars can be finiky also and alot of variables can play a factor.

all in all do what yo ufeel comfortable with but the protune will produce numbers for you!
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Old 08-18-2005, 02:05 PM   #7
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What miss information? I saw actual HP numbers after Protunes from other people. Why spend all that money for an extra 15 hp? Like I said, and you just verified...you're not gonna see big HP numbers from a Protune.
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Old 08-18-2005, 02:10 PM   #8
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You don't think that 17 ft lbs of torque and 20 hp are decent increases?
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Old 08-18-2005, 02:16 PM   #9
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Not really. First you have to buy the lisence, then you have to pay a tuner....all for what 20 hp? Everyone knows Cobb AP is a conservative tune. I thought when Protuner came out, it would be a way to get a more aggressive tune from Cobb. It just deosnt seem thats how it is with a Protune.
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Old 08-18-2005, 02:38 PM   #10
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I thought you didn't have to buy the lisc. for the protune...just own an AP and go to a tuner and they can upload the map to your AP???
I'm not a genius about this stuff but from what I've read on here so far it's just as good as any other EM as far as parameters you can tune for???
so basically you can tune it and get pretty much close to identical results than with EM-X??? I went the AP route and will go the protune route and won't be breaking the bank.

maybe you're not taking into account the HP/TQ that you initially pick up from just going with the base stage 2 map?
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Old 08-18-2005, 02:42 PM   #11
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Well, with my ProTune, the major problem it remedied over the stock Cobb mapping was that itw as running on the lean side, especially in the midrange -- this characteristic of the stock Cobb map, but is a bit problematic in CA, with our sub-par fuels. Add that most of CA will be at or close to sea level compared to where hte map was tuned in Salt Lake City, Cobb mapped cars in CA tend to run more lean than what is comfortable.

My ProTune eliminated this lean fuel curve, with one that nicely tapered down to 11:1 just as boost hit around 3k, making for a nice margin of safety. With this margin, we were able to advance timing, and poof, about 15whp and 15wtq over the entire rev range, and no hesitation.

To me, the safety and smoooooothness (no more strange hesitations!) were worth the money spent on the ProTune -- the good amount of extra power (butt dyno/dynojet approved!) was icing on the cake.

I guess, just as with anything, it'll come down to the individual's wants. If a ProTuned car is down on power vs. a car on the Cobb mapping, wouldn't that be more the fault of hte tuner?

-JT
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Old 08-18-2005, 02:46 PM   #12
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please someone correct me if I'm completely off the wall here! I'm trying to learn and not mislead anyone!
this is all very generalized and not uber specific numbers just what I gathered from here and cobbs site
cobb AP-$600 (I got mine for $300so I'm ahead of the game )
protune- $300-500
so you're in the whole for about $1000(how much is utec/ecutek and a tune?)
cobb stage 2:
HP- +54.5
TQ- +49

now add protune

HP- +74
TQ- +66

so for about $1000 in EM you gained about 74HP/66TQ ?
granted the numbers may be slightly off but thats what I just got out of cobbs numbers on their site plus the numbers listed above for the protune?
please someone correct me if I'm completely off the wall here! I'm trying to learn and not mislead anyone!
(yes I realize this won't be dead average for all cars)
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Old 08-18-2005, 03:13 PM   #13
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TBE + EM = Stg2
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Old 08-18-2005, 03:31 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NOTimprezed
TBE + EM = Stg2
got that part
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Old 08-18-2005, 03:49 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tool1128
I thought you didn't have to buy the lisc. for the protune...just own an AP and go to a tuner and they can upload the map to your AP???
I'm not a genius about this stuff but from what I've read on here so far it's just as good as any other EM as far as parameters you can tune for???
so basically you can tune it and get pretty much close to identical results than with EM-X??? I went the AP route and will go the protune route and won't be breaking the bank.

maybe you're not taking into account the HP/TQ that you initially pick up from just going with the base stage 2 map?
You don't need to buy another license... thus my agreement with Hondaeater on the spread of misinformation.

There's a lot more to a tune then peak numbers....




I dunno... that's a markably different increase when you're talking redline. 11 more HP PEAK... 35 HP at redline....

Not to mention a myriad of other things that go into "the driving experiance".

I love people fixated on peak numbers.

Jorge (RiftsWRX)
www.ProjectWRX.com
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Old 08-18-2005, 03:57 PM   #16
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And, you're going to get big numbers from ECUTEK, UTEC, AEM, E-Manage??? So the before listed EM systems will get you 100hp when a pro tune will only get you 15hp? Can you blame Pro Tuner for loss of HP? I would think that's the tuner's fault not the Pro Tune software's fault. Maybe you're saying engine management isn't a good mod? Is that what you're saying? Better to spend the money on a 20G turbo rather than engine management.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ursmother
What miss information? I saw actual HP numbers after Protunes from other people. Why spend all that money for an extra 15 hp? Like I said, and you just verified...you're not gonna see big HP numbers from a Protune.
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Old 08-18-2005, 03:58 PM   #17
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Wow that curve looks good.^^^
Is that just stage 2 with a pro tune???
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Old 08-18-2005, 04:01 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Speed 2.5
Wow that curve looks good.^^^
Is that just stage 2 with a pro tune???
That is Hondaeaters stage 2.5. The red line is the OTS map, the blue is what it was after I worked it over.

EDIT: of course it wasn't worth it though... only 11 peak HP

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Old 08-18-2005, 04:20 PM   #19
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exactly. I'm sure Jorge could have cranked another 50 PEAK HP out of my car, would it be worth it to you then ursmother? Of course my engine would probably be dead by now, but it was the fAstAr one!
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Old 08-18-2005, 04:25 PM   #20
David04WRX
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Is is safe to run at 12:1 a/f ratio all the way up to 5k rpm? Seems kinda lean to me.
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Old 08-18-2005, 04:28 PM   #21
RiftsWRX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David04WRX
Is is safe to run at 12:1 a/f ratio all the way up to 5k rpm? Seems kinda lean to me.
Every car is different. I'll just leave it at that. There's one proper fuel curve, one proper timing curve, and one proper boost curve for a set of mods and fuel used. If you find you're dramatically changing one to counteract a deficit in another, one of those 3 are very much out of whack... 9 times out of 10, someone is trying to push the turbo WELL out of it's designed eff. range.

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Old 08-19-2005, 08:24 AM   #22
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My originial argument, and still is, Protune is good for making the curve better and making the run run better....not huge HP gains. Bottom line.
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Old 08-19-2005, 09:05 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ursmother
My originial argument, and still is, Protune is good for making the curve better and making the run run better....not huge HP gains. Bottom line.
Is the point of this thread just to state that protunes don't make power at all?
Or that you don't think EM doesn't make enough power? do you have another solution that makes more power than a protune?
I'd like to see two graphs of two different tunes(protune/ecutek?) and how well they compare.

If those aren't substantial numbers for ya go get NAWWWZZZZZZZZZZ!
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Old 08-19-2005, 09:23 AM   #24
ursmother
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I never said EM doesn't make enough power. EM is the best thing for your car. I'll say it again....for the 1000th time. Cobbs base maps, altough good, are very conservative and don't produce much power to begin with. Protuner is for enhancing the base maps to your car specifically, smoothing out the curve, making it run better, maaaybe getting a little more hp out of it. Compare this to another form of EM and you will see bigger gains out of other EM.
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Old 08-19-2005, 09:56 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ursmother
I never said EM doesn't make enough power. EM is the best thing for your car. I'll say it again....for the 1000th time. Cobbs base maps, altough good, are very conservative and don't produce much power to begin with. Protuner is for enhancing the base maps to your car specifically, smoothing out the curve, making it run better, maaaybe getting a little more hp out of it. Compare this to another form of EM and you will see bigger gains out of other EM.
you dont know what you are talking about. please stop posting.
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