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Old 08-31-2005, 10:58 PM   #1
M1ke
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Default plans to buy and turbo rs?

im looking for a new car and a 2.5rs is a feasable option.
the only thing is it lacks in power department. most car guys will agree any car lacks here but anyway
my plan is to turbo it but given the weakness of the stock rs motor a swap or hybrid is in order
from reading up on several forums this is what ive come up with for the engine to be able to hold plenty of boost and be reliable as a daily driver
I am on a budget and i realize that the 2k i have now wont get much but just see what i got and help me out here
either get the ej22t engine from the turbo legacy shortblock and keep the stock heads from the dohc version - phase I supposedly flows better but worse valvetrain than phase II - ej25 and put in forged pistons and con rods. then the turbo kit later on when i get more funds. After i have my turbo car on low boost when even more money comes my way ill upgrade the valvetrain with roller rockers to complete the setup all the while babying the tranny
or
get the sti shortblock with the better internals already inside and use the same head setup as above and then the turbo kit and tranny later on
my question is
which is the best power for the money while still having the best,easiest way to upgrade later to reach my 300-350awhp goal. as i dont have much funds, this whole motor,tranny setup will be bought and installed in stages so it would have to run well after each
are there any better options for my price range and power goals?
how much would all this run me in the end?
would the stock rs or sti or ej22t ecus wire up right and work? i know ill need tunning electronics or even a standalone but i just need it to work well untill i can afford these
any other advice im missing?
advice greatly appreciated
btw i searched for this stuff but i couldnt find my setups on a budget so no search u idiot replys please
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Old 08-31-2005, 11:21 PM   #2
Tats
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im looking for a new car and a 2.5rs is a feasable option.
the only thing is it lacks in power department. most car guys will agree any car lacks here but anyway
my plan is to turbo it but given the weakness of the stock rs motor a swap or hybrid is in order
from reading up on several forums this is what ive come up with for the engine to be able to hold plenty of boost and be reliable as a daily driver
I am on a budget and i realize that the 2k i have now wont get much but just see what i got and help me out here
either get the ej22t engine from the turbo legacy shortblock and keep the stock heads from the dohc version - phase I supposedly flows better but worse valvetrain than phase II - ej25 and put in forged pistons and con rods. then the turbo kit later on when i get more funds. After i have my turbo car on low boost when even more money comes my way ill upgrade the valvetrain with roller rockers to complete the setup all the while babying the tranny

EJ22T will not need any internal work to hold a good amount of boost. As a matter of fact some say it's stronger than the STi block. It's a full closed deck as opposed to the sti's semi-colsed deck. I don't believe that we have roller rockers...just tappet on cam (IIRC) Just needs stronger valve springs.


or
get the sti shortblock with the better internals already inside and use the same head setup as above and then the turbo kit and tranny later on
my question is
which is the best power for the money while still having the best,easiest way to upgrade later to reach my 300-350awhp goal. as i dont have much funds, this whole motor,tranny setup will be bought and installed in stages so it would have to run well after each
are there any better options for my price range and power goals?
how much would all this run me in the end?
would the stock rs or sti or ej22t ecus wire up right and work? i know ill need tunning electronics or even a standalone but i just need it to work well untill i can afford these
any other advice im missing?
advice greatly appreciated
btw i searched for this stuff but i couldnt find my setups on a budget so no search u idiot replys please

The reason you can't find any is because they don't exist.

I'm not saying that it can't be don'e fairly cheap if your a good shopper for used stuff and have the ability and knowlege to do it yourself. But I would say a resonable budget for a reliable setup would be no less than 4-5k.

I doubt you could get the sti or ej22t short block new and all the parts you need to just bolt the hybrid together for less than 2k. STI or wrx ecu's will NOT work unless you swap. You'll have to use the RS ECU and a piggyback or stand alone unit. These can run anywhere from $400 to $2000 depending on how crazy you want to go.

Search for WRX turbo on rs and you'll probably find something that tells you basically how much you'd have to pay to build your own kit.

Also...don't forget to leave room in the budget for things that people don't think about. IE: gaskets, oil lines, exhaust clutch..etc...
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Old 09-01-2005, 11:52 AM   #3
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FYI: the ej22t shortblock is a few hundred bucks more than the ej25t on the market the last time i checked
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Old 09-01-2005, 02:37 PM   #4
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why buy a new rs for so much money when there are TONS of wrx's, sti's, evo's, etc... on sale on these forums for CHEAP and most are even modded already.
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Old 09-01-2005, 02:50 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Type1
why buy a new rs for so much money when there are TONS of wrx's, sti's, evo's, etc... on sale on these forums for CHEAP and most are even modded already.
Thats a real dumb question. Here's why. We don't want a pre-modded car. Or WRX's, STi's, or Evo's. The whole point of modding a car is not just to add speed, or make it handle. Its an extension of your personality, you change the shift knob because you want it to feel and look different than someone elses. Now he said "new" car, that could mean totally different things. My 98 RS is new to me, if he meant new as in 05-06 it would just be easier to get the WRX. I'm assuming he means the older body style, even if he meant the newer one. why pay for a WRX and get the turbo and everything if your going to replace it with a totally different motor??

WRX, STi, and Evo's are IMO ugly compared to the GM6 body style.
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Old 09-01-2005, 02:51 PM   #6
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I talked to subaru Japan the other day re: ej22t blocks. There are currently no new shortblocks at any of the dealers in the US. There are currently two bare blocks (no internals) in japan which will sell for $2400. They plan to make 12 more ej22t shortblocks and sell them by VIN only. Once those twelve are gone they will not make anymore. They would not give me a date as to when they expected to start and finish production on those 12 blocks.
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Old 09-01-2005, 05:03 PM   #7
M1ke
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tats: i know this will cost more than the 2k i have i was just looking for a ballpark figure of everything total. will the car run after i just put a ej22t or the sti shortblock in with the stock heads and get a piggyback? i read on rs25 boards that the 98 had a dohc and the 99-01 had sohc with roller rockers. what piggyback would you guys suggest i use? subaruwrxparts is selling the ej22t shortblock for 2050 shipped and the sti for 1900 shipped.

when i said a "new" car i meant a different one other than the one i had.
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Old 09-01-2005, 10:17 PM   #8
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hey M1ke, I am selling my turbo kit if you are interested, here is the thread http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=805127 this is a very nice setup for a great price compared to what you get.

let me know if you are interested.

thanks

Ben
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Old 09-02-2005, 11:05 AM   #9
M1ke
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nice setup but i dont even have a subaru yet.
im trying to finalize my plans if i do buy one plus i would be buying the shortblock first but thanks for the offer.

anyone know the answer for my previous post??
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Old 09-02-2005, 01:33 PM   #10
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I would be willing to bet money that subaruwrxparts.com does not currently have one of the ej22t shortblocks and wont get them again. I'm not a big fan of piggyback ems's. It's a bandaid. Why spend all this money on a car then hold it together with a bandaid? I personally run an autronic SM4 with my setup, but I know not everyone can afford a $2500 ecu. Autronic also makes the sm2 and smc's which work good with ur cars and can be found used for around $1000-$1500. The link plus will work fine as well and they go for under $1k used. I just sold one for $700 shipped.
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Old 09-02-2005, 01:34 PM   #11
Master2192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M1ke
tats: i know this will cost more than the 2k i have i was just looking for a ballpark figure of everything total. will the car run after i just put a ej22t or the sti shortblock in with the stock heads and get a piggyback? i read on rs25 boards that the 98 had a dohc and the 99-01 had sohc with roller rockers. what piggyback would you guys suggest i use? subaruwrxparts is selling the ej22t shortblock for 2050 shipped and the sti for 1900 shipped.

when i said a "new" car i meant a different one other than the one i had.
It will run yes, the 2.2L will run rich at startup if your using the 2.5L ECU. The 2.5L will need a change in timing i believe, because of the lower compression. 98 has DOHC yes, but the 99-01 heads flow better. 98-99 are MAF based, 00-05 are MAP. For piggy back i'd use the Rallitek Perfect Power
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Old 09-02-2005, 04:02 PM   #12
M1ke
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so what i should have after the "first phase" to have it run would be the 22t/sti shortblock w/ the stock heads using a standalone ecu, correct?

im confused, ive read dohc flows better but doesnt have roller rockers like the sohc. and now u say sohc flows better......and supposedly the sohc is supposed to be the "weaker" version.... help
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Old 09-02-2005, 04:57 PM   #13
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This is what i've read. The DOHC design can support higher revs, but the design of the SOHC allows bigger valves so flows better. the SOHC heads are also higher compression. The SOHC stock motor has a weaker block than the DOHC though.

I'm not sure which head is "stronger", but if you put the two next to each other, the DOHC heads are huge. The DOHC doesn't even have rockers, the valve springs sit directly under the cams.

You don't need a standalone ECU (although its recommended to get the most reliability), just make sure you use the SOHC ecu with the SOHC engine, and DOHC with DOHC.

I recommend you talk to a local Subaru Tuner/builder and see what kind of frankensteins they have built. The mechanic at Frantic Four that i bought my car from, his legacy had the 22T block, with 98 RS Heads, 98 ECU, RS Transmission, STi Turbo, and a RRFPR and a piggy back to control timing. And it ran pretty good. He also used bigger injectors. which made it run extremely rich when it first started up, but it still ran real nice.
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Old 09-03-2005, 01:43 PM   #14
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Here's what I'm going to do. I am going to buy a used EJ20 with up to 15,000 miles on it. Then I'm going to put it in my garage and work the s#!t out of it. Lightened pulleys, lightened flywheel, ported and polished heads, new pistons, cams. Then I'll slap a bigger turbo and an fmic and drop it into my rs. FYI, look on ebay, ej20s start at around 600 +125 s/h. Turbo=1500.00 p+p= free (doing it myself) flywheel + pulleys+pistons=1000.00 and new cams will cost around 800.00. So about 5500.00 for a completely new set-up running around 20psi. The moral of the story, screw the kits.
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Old 09-04-2005, 12:04 AM   #15
M1ke
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yeah i probably wont be going with a turbo kit anyways
is it really that difficult to "port" and polish the intake manifold and ports?
i want the 22t or the sti blocks because of the extra displacement.
so far still no luck on finding a gc/gm in GA
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Old 09-04-2005, 05:39 AM   #16
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a good port and polish by hand isnt feisable unless you dont care about the results
i "thought" about doing my exhaust for a few minutes then realized id rather have professionals do it
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Old 09-04-2005, 12:24 PM   #17
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Go with the 2.5 STi block since that is all you woll most likely be able to find, you're hears are fine. DO not flow as much as SOHC heads but so what.

Get a good set of head gaskets and head studs, DON"T SKIMP on any of these parts.

If you want to rev much higher than 6500 rpms you're gonne need valve springs too.

Also...leave room in the budget for the misc stuff you'll need like new timing belt etc...

Rallitek perfect power piggy back will be more than fine to run the motor with the factory ECU.
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Old 09-04-2005, 03:12 PM   #18
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Well if you plan on modding the ride and haven't even bought an RS yet might I suggest an L model? Cheaper usually by a lot, and with that money saved I'm sure you could use more for power and I understand it doesn't look as nice as the RS model, however it could very well be 5 grand more towards power. If you decide to fix the exterior to match an RS probably still have more money towards power, and if you get an EJ22 L they have lower compression.
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Old 09-04-2005, 07:20 PM   #19
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save up a little bit more money and buy a bug eye WRX...turbo already included
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Old 09-04-2005, 07:57 PM   #20
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don't get an L, it is more work tha you think. don't buy a wrx, everyone and their mom's mom has one and they are frakin ugly compare to the old chassis. I have biuld my sohc block to handle over 40psi of boost, heads and all. I run 32psi on c16 race gas at the track, so don't let people tell you that the rs block sux. yes there are better block if you are comparing stock to stock, but after that, I love my block. I have ported and polished the heads on it with custom cams, double valve springs. titanium valve seats, valves and a 5-angle valve job. I just extrude honed the intake manifold for better flow and costom built my exaust manifold. The ej22 can handle around 18psi stock, low compresion. But if you are gonna buy a rs and spend the money building it, then just stick with the stock block and build it. My problem is not with the engine, but with the tranmission, can't hold all the power. I have tried a BPM transmission but it kept ripping the synchros out. I am going to try a full dog box tranny next from ISR and BPM, no synchros. But basically I just wanted you to know that rs block isn't a bad block, neither is the ej22t. If you ahve any question feel free to ask me.
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Old 09-05-2005, 02:42 AM   #21
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40 psi of boost! And how much did this whole setup run you? Could you go a bit more into detail about your set-up? mostly for informational purposes.....
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Old 09-05-2005, 02:58 AM   #22
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Yes pleaseeeee tell me what your setup is and how much power that bitch is puttin out on 32 psi?
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Old 09-05-2005, 09:11 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EcksJay
40 psi of boost! And how much did this whole setup run you? Could you go a bit more into detail about your set-up? mostly for informational purposes.....
About as much $$$$ as a brinks truck holds.
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Old 09-05-2005, 10:02 PM   #24
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over all I have spent around 6-7000K on the motor. I saved a bunch of money on doing the engine work myself and buy more than one thing from people so they give me a discount. I am not going to give up my specs for secretive puposes but I will tell you generaly what I have, gt35R with custom internals, JE custom pistons, carillo forged connecting rods, knife-edged and balance sti crank, custom bore, deburred and o-ringed block block, xecceleration t-sleeves, heads as stated before, vishnu fuel rails with -8an fuel lines, 2x 255lph walbro f/p, 750cc rc injectors, 175 wet nitrous kit, hydra, ems, msd dis-2 ignition box, nology plug wires, jdm ver.7 sti tmic, smaco hoses, and some other ****. I haven't really had the chance to dyno it for nothing but hp numbers, but with a mild tune on 22psi w/o nitrous it put down 486.5 awhp and 511.8 tq. on 32 psi with the nitrous it out down 596.2 awhp with 635.6 tq. on a mild tune. I just installed a 2-step rev. limiter and am still tuning a new nitrous set-up so I am going to the track again in like 3 weeks. will post my results from the track and new dyno also when done.
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Old 09-05-2005, 10:06 PM   #25
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What kinda turbo kit? Custom turbo kit you put together yourself?
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