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Old 08-24-2005, 04:38 PM   #1
jasona
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Default Help with crank/cam pulleys and timing belt

Last night I got the engine out, I stopped when I got to the part about removing the crank/cam pulleys and the timing belt because I'm not sure how to take them off without the special tools, maybe an impact hammer? And what do I need to do to make sure the timing is still good when I get it put back together? If anyone could tell me how to do either of these things it'd be a big help.
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Old 08-24-2005, 05:48 PM   #2
Mike1967
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasona
Last night I got the engine out, I stopped when I got to the part about removing the crank/cam pulleys and the timing belt because I'm not sure how to take them off without the special tools, maybe an impact hammer? And what do I need to do to make sure the timing is still good when I get it put back together? If anyone could tell me how to do either of these things it'd be a big help.

I took the plunge and bought an impact wrench. Bought a new 3/4" for $ 100.00 and am glad I did. But I already had the compressor to drive it.

I would also recommend that you put in a new belt and a water pump. If you have gone this far and are not 100% sure that these are new parts then IMO you might as well replace them while you have everything broken down.
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Old 08-24-2005, 09:14 PM   #3
Tim Sanderson
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Don't remove anything until you align the three timing marks and use a paint pen to make alignment marks on the belt to coincide with the ones on the sprockets(or replace the belt with a new oem subaru one, they come with marks on them)!

The crank pulley slides right off. Use a strap wrench on the cam sprocket and a breaker bar on the cam sprocket bolt. It's tight, but not that tight.

What is your goal here? Why are you working on your motor?
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Old 08-28-2005, 07:01 PM   #4
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I have a blown head gasket and I'm replacing the cams while I'm in there.

I got everything off except the cam gears, I can't find a way to hold them still while I turn the bolt. My strap wrench isn't big enough to go around it

Is there some way to know how to align the cam gear with the cam when you put it back together? I mean it's got to be aligned right or the timing marks on the cam gear would be meaningless. Is there some way I should mark it before I remove it?
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Old 08-28-2005, 11:48 PM   #5
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So buy a bigger strap wrench.

The cams have alignment dowels.

Are you going with aftermarket cams? Don't forget to adjust the lash correctly.

Do you know the correct torque'ing procedure for the head bolts?

Do you have the torx plus bit for removing the 6 torx plus cam girdle bolts?

If you need anything else, just ask. I can help walk you through it.
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Old 08-30-2005, 11:58 AM   #6
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Okay

Sweet

Yes, and how do I do that?

Yeah, I have a copy of the FSM

Yup

Thanks
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Old 08-30-2005, 12:16 PM   #7
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Jasona,
You shouldn't have removed the belt until you broke the cam gears loose. The trick, without an impact wrench is to lock the ring gear on the flywheel. Then you can break loose the crank pulley and the two cam gears. Once the belt is off, you are not going to get those gears off without an impact wrench or Subaru's special tool or a strap wrench...
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Old 08-30-2005, 12:20 PM   #8
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Jason

Don't forget to mark the belt before you take it off....this is KEY !


Question for you other guys - can I do damage by using an impact wrench to put the cam sprockets back on ? I did this a month ago when I did my timing belt as I did not have the FSM and did not realize that there were torque specifications on the sprocket bolts.
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Old 08-30-2005, 05:26 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Monson
Jasona,
You shouldn't have removed the belt until you broke the cam gears loose. The trick, without an impact wrench is to lock the ring gear on the flywheel. Then you can break loose the crank pulley and the two cam gears. Once the belt is off, you are not going to get those gears off without an impact wrench or Subaru's special tool or a strap wrench...
The bolts on th sohc motor are much easier to remove than those on the dohc motor. I think your suggestion is a very good one, but he still should not have much of a problem loosening them with a strap wrench.
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Old 09-02-2005, 04:32 PM   #10
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I got them off with a strap wrench, it was really hard

Now my questions are:

1. There was some kind of rubber seal around the bottom of the cam cap when I took it off, and it tore. I assume I need to replace it, what's it called? Is it the "oil seal" referred to in the manual?

2. How do I know if my heads or block need to be milled?
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Old 09-04-2005, 04:12 PM   #11
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Anyone?
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Old 09-04-2005, 04:28 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasona
I got them off with a strap wrench, it was really hard

Now my questions are:

1. There was some kind of rubber seal around the bottom of the cam cap when I took it off, and it tore. I assume I need to replace it, what's it called? Is it the "oil seal" referred to in the manual?

2. How do I know if my heads or block need to be milled?
The seals are the CAM seals...there is one in the back and the front. They are fairly inexpensive. You should go ahead and replace both pair on each CAM.

On your block....you can take a straight edge and put it against the block surface. Then take a feeler gauge and try and insert it in between the straight edge and the block surface. Buy a feeler gauge set with a wide array of sizes. These are cheap and can be found at any auto parts store.

IF you take the CAMs out then just make sure and put them back in the way that you removed them. this should be simple if you aligned the timing marks on to 12:00 on all 3 sprockets. What I am going to do (my Cams are currently out) is install the sprocket on each CAM and then install the CAMS into the heads. This will automatically align the CAMS to the correct timing with the rocker arms. I will then remove the sprockets and re-install the Cam caps and valve covers.

I would recommend getting your heads milled if you have over 100K on the engine. I have a shop here in Austin that will mill both my heads for $ 47 (for the pair). I am also going to get them pressure tested for $ 53 for the pair.
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Old 09-04-2005, 04:30 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike1967
The seals are the CAM seals...there is one in the back and the front. They are fairly inexpensive. You should go ahead and replace both pair on each CAM.

On your block....you can take a straight edge and put it against the block surface. Then take a feeler gauge and try and insert it in between the straight edge and the block surface. Buy a feeler gauge set with a wide array of sizes. These are cheap and can be found at any auto parts store.

IF you take the CAMs out then just make sure and put them back in the way that you removed them. this should be simple if you aligned the timing marks on to 12:00 on all 3 sprockets. What I am going to do (my Cams are currently out) is install the sprocket on each CAM and then install the CAMS into the heads. This will automatically align the CAMS to the correct timing with the rocker arms. I will then remove the sprockets and re-install the Cam caps and valve covers.

I would recommend getting your heads milled if you have over 100K on the engine. I have a shop here in Austin that will mill both my heads for $ 47 (for the pair). I am also going to get them pressure tested for $ 53 for the pair.
I forgot to mention a couple of things.

The maximum warp is .002" for my heads. Assuming it is the same for yours. So if you can get a .003" or higher feeler gauge between the straight edge and the block surface then you should probably take it in.

On the CAM reinstall. When I re-attached the sprockets to the CAMS, I will set the notch on the sprockets back to 12:00....this will align the CAMS to the correct timing.
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Old 09-04-2005, 08:27 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Sanderson
So buy a bigger strap wrench.

The cams have alignment dowels.

Are you going with aftermarket cams? Don't forget to adjust the lash correctly.

Do you know the correct torque'ing procedure for the head bolts?

Do you have the torx plus bit for removing the 6 torx plus cam girdle bolts?

If you need anything else, just ask. I can help walk you through it.
Tim,

What is a lash ?

Thanks in advance !
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Old 09-05-2005, 02:12 AM   #15
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"Lash" is the amount of free play between the CAM follower screw and each valve spring. If you have the FSM, it goes into detail the amount of acceptable lash. This is one of the times that having two sets of feeler gauges comes in handy, as the tolerances are different for intake and exhaust.
After you have the lash set on all valves, take a few minutes and check them again.
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Old 09-05-2005, 09:37 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EcksJay
"Lash" is the amount of free play between the CAM follower screw and each valve spring. If you have the FSM, it goes into detail the amount of acceptable lash. This is one of the times that having two sets of feeler gauges comes in handy, as the tolerances are different for intake and exhaust.
After you have the lash set on all valves, take a few minutes and check them again.
Thanks for the feedback. I need to definitely do this now that I have the engine broken down

Is the CAM Follower screw the screw that holds the spring into the head...or another way to say it....is the CAM Follower screw the screw that runs through the center of the spring ?
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Old 09-05-2005, 09:50 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EcksJay
"Lash" is the amount of free play between the CAM follower screw and each valve spring. If you have the FSM, it goes into detail the amount of acceptable lash. This is one of the times that having two sets of feeler gauges comes in handy, as the tolerances are different for intake and exhaust.
After you have the lash set on all valves, take a few minutes and check them again.
I consulted my handy Chilton manual on the lash.

Apparantly only the 1.2L, 1.6L and 1.8L require manual lash adjustment.

All other engines have hydraulic lifter assemblies that adjust automatically.
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Old 09-06-2005, 02:14 AM   #18
Tim Sanderson
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The 2.5L sohc has meachnical lash adjusters as well.
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Old 09-06-2005, 09:00 AM   #19
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Yup

but how do you adjust them? What do you adjust them to?
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Old 09-06-2005, 01:25 PM   #20
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First off, get an FSM for the engine. That will become invaluable, as you progress into more technical work. I have an FSM for my 2001 2.5 engine, so I'm guessing that they are the same beast.
Valve clearance is set when the engine is entirely together (timing belt, heads are on)
To set Valve Clearance (or "lash"): Set the #1 Cylinder at TDC of compression stroke. To confirm TDC, the camshaft sprocket on the drivers side has 4 arrows on it. If you are looking at the front of the engine, TDC for the cylinders are as follows:
Cyl #1: 12:00
Cyl #2 6:00
Cyl #3 3:00
Cyl #4 9:00
The adjustements have to be made one cylinder at a time ie, do #1 intake and exhaust, then rotate to #3, repeat.

The method of adjustment: If you are looking at the cam followers, there is a roller that rides on the lobes, that is called a cam follower. At the other end of the arm, you will see a nut (10mm, IIRC). The nut is securing a screw. That is what you want to be adjusting. Loosen up the nut a little bit, just enough to have to use a bit of energy when you adjust the screw. Bring the piston to TDC, loosen the screw, make your adjustments, tighten it all down, and move on to the next cylinder. After it is all done, make sure that you give the crank a few FULL revolutions. Go back and double check all your adjustments.

Tolerances: The FSM lists all measurements in metric. Being a machinist, I work with metric every day, but it's still annoying. Anyway...

Intake (the valve on the top): .20mm+/-.02. Or: .0079" +/-.0008". I have yet to find a feeler gage set that reads down to .0001. So, I used a .008" as the mean, and I used .007" as the low, and .009" as the high. Basically, if the .007" shim goes through, and the .009" shim doesn't, your golden.

Exhaust: .25mm +/-.02mm...Or: .0098" +/-.0008", Again, I ended up using the .009" as the low, the .011" as the high, and the .010" as the mean (midpoint).

Things to remember as you make adjustments:
Insert the feeler gage at as horizontal a direction as is possible to the valve stem end face. You will get a much better reading.
You don't want to force a gage through. Either it slips freely in, with a little bit of drag, or it doesn't go in at all.
And above all, DOUBLE CHECK YOUR WORK!!!!! Believe me, you really don't want to be repeating this in a few weeks, when you are getting really annoyed by the constant clicking of improperly set valve clearances.
HTH
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