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Old 09-07-2005, 02:44 PM   #1
abosworth
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Default Oil Leak from timing belt cover

It's about time for me to change my timing belt. I noticed that there is oil leaking from the timing belt cover. I have searched and found that it is likely either the main crank seal or the oil pump seal that is leaking. I have heard some people say that the main seal rarely fails so it is most likely the oil pump seal. I have also heard the exact opposite that they fail quite often. can anyone back this up either way?? I guess the best thing for me to do would be to pull the timing belt covers off and see if i can find any visible leaks but i kinda would like to have all the parts i need for the job in advance as i do most of my mechanic work on the weekend. When i do the t-belt i also plan on replacing the water pump. Is there anything else that should be replaced while i have everything appart.

Thanks up front.

Adam

by the way, my ride is a 92 legacy ej22 4wd manual tranny/
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Old 09-07-2005, 02:54 PM   #2
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i had a leak from the same place and it was my cam seals that were at fault.
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Old 09-07-2005, 03:00 PM   #3
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kaisersouse, How many of them were at fault? just one or more than one?
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Old 09-07-2005, 03:26 PM   #4
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If I had to guess I would also say CAM seals are your culprit.
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Old 09-07-2005, 03:27 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaisersouse
i had a leak from the same place and it was my cam seals that were at fault.
They have a life expectancy.

If you have over 100K on your engine then it is probably time to change them both.
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Old 09-07-2005, 10:21 PM   #6
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All three seals and the oil pump grommet are all going to run you under 30$ so why not buy them all and install them all?

www.subaruparts.com
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Old 09-08-2005, 05:41 PM   #7
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thanks for the info. I think i will just replace both cam seals and the main crank shaft seal and the oil pump seal. the seals are so cheap that it is silly not to do them all while i am in there. one more question. When removing the crank pully do you absolutely need a crank pully belt wrench or is there another way to get around using that tool? I guess it wouldn't be a bad addition to my tool colection but i am just currious.
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Old 09-08-2005, 05:48 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abosworth
thanks for the info. I think i will just replace both cam seals and the main crank shaft seal and the oil pump seal. the seals are so cheap that it is silly not to do them all while i am in there. one more question. When removing the crank pully do you absolutely need a crank pully belt wrench or is there another way to get around using that tool? I guess it wouldn't be a bad addition to my tool colection but i am just currious.
IMO you would be better of investing the same money in either a 3/4" impact wrench or a chain vice grip. Both are much more multi-functional
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Old 09-08-2005, 06:25 PM   #9
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Bondo.
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Old 09-08-2005, 07:25 PM   #10
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I like strap wrenches. They work.

Look below the throttle body on the passenger rear side of the motor. Do you see a rubber cover? Remove that and you'll see the flywheel. You can hold the flywheel with a prybar(between the teeth or however you can manage it) while using a breaker bar on the crank pulley bolt to loosen.

Good luck
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Old 09-09-2005, 10:56 AM   #11
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Does anyone remove the radiator to have more room when doing the timing belt? It looks a little tight in there but i think i can pull it off without taking out the radiator. thanks for all the tips.
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Old 09-09-2005, 11:12 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abosworth
Does anyone remove the radiator to have more room when doing the timing belt? It looks a little tight in there but i think i can pull it off without taking out the radiator. thanks for all the tips.
I remove the radiator and the Condensor. Although this does require you to have to spend money on new referigerant. Also, you need to make sure you have a vacuume available to fully evacuate the system of all air. And you would probably want to replace the A/C dryer....which is not expensive.

I did this because I attacked mine with an impact wrench....and I could not get enough clearance with the impact wrench without coming directly at it from the front.

After pulling my engine.....I am now thinking that if/when I replace the timing in the future I will just pull the engine. But I have already invested in the hoist.

Pulling the radiator is extremely simple. I would at least pull it to buy yourself more room. But if you do that then get a strap wrench or engage the fly wheel as previously indicated.
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Old 09-09-2005, 02:09 PM   #13
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Has anyone done the timing belt without removing the radiator or pulling the engine?? Mike1967, when you say have a vaccum do you mean like just a regular shop vac? My a/c is not in working condition. my compressor is shot so i won't worry about the a/c dryer. that is a whole other project.
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Old 09-09-2005, 06:52 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abosworth
Has anyone done the timing belt without removing the radiator or pulling the engine?? Mike1967, when you say have a vaccum do you mean like just a regular shop vac? My a/c is not in working condition. my compressor is shot so i won't worry about the a/c dryer. that is a whole other project.
Mike has taken it to the extreme I think. But I bet you his a/c works perfectly. Now I know how he's able to use a 3/4" impact.

You can remove the fans to gain a couple inches of space. Don't forget to unplug them. And when you reinstall them don't torque the snot out the screws, it's plastic.

If you wish to remove the rad. then leave the fans on. Draining it with the rad. drain is slow and annoying. I like to pull the lower hose from the t-stat housing. If you want to try it wear safety glasses and have a wide container to catch the fluid.
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Old 09-09-2005, 07:15 PM   #15
Tim Sanderson
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How many miles on your car? Any cold start ticking?

Parts to replace while your in there(if they need it):
Water pump/water pump gasket
t-stat/t-stat gasket
oil pump/oil pump grommet
front main seal
cam seals
t-belt tensioner--new one comes compressed and pinned for easy install
you should also inspect the three idler pulleys.
And timing belt.

Some of these parts may still be fine. You may not need to replace them all.

I would call wwwsubaruparts.com. (numbers on there home page) with your vin.

For all that parts alone your probably looking at quite a bit of money. That's why you should inspect things before ordering. IF it is'nt leaking, why replace it? Oil pump working fine? leave it in. no oil on the cam seals? leave it. WAter pump not squeeling/leaking? leave it.

Preventative maintenance however is sort of a different story. Engine has XXXXXX miles. When do thing tend to go bad? If you replace them at your conveinience you actually save time and money.

Think about it and decide for yourself. Once you've done this once successfully you'll see how easy it is.
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Old 09-09-2005, 11:01 PM   #16
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I also definitely recommend getting a new idler pulley tensioner.

I just put my belt back on tonight and tried to re-use my old idler tensioner. Unfortunately I do not own a press, so I tried to depress the "tension shaft" with a C-Clamp. I got everything installed only to discover that the tension mechanism is broke.

Luckily I have 2 dealers that are open on Saturday. Unfortunately, both are 50 miles away so I will lose 2 hours tomorrow morning .. arrrgghhh

I really hate the design of the idler pulley on these cars. It is no doubt designed this way so that do it Do it yourself'ers will have to fork over the $150 for the new tensioner each time they change the timing belt.
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Old 09-10-2005, 09:36 AM   #17
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i didn't take the rad out. plenty of room with it still in place(work from the side of the car not the front!). i reused the tensioner as i was able to pin it while still in car. my main seal went that's why i had mine apart. i installed a new T belt also because i had 145k on the ticker. takes about an hour and a half for my repair. and you don't need a tool to remove the sprocket bolts, just have someone hold it with a ratchet or breaker bar and crank the engine, VIOLA! you've saved money and got the job done. when tightening use the old timing belt to jam up the pulley/gear(whichever) so the whole assembly dosen't rotate and proceed to torque. i've seen suby mech's do this on their own cars(funny!). hopefully they have the right tools at work and that's not how they actually learned the trick. and don't worry it won't hurt your belt or pulleys either.

mike1967-you took your engine out when you did that radiator pull right? otherwise you didn't need to. you know now for future reference!
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Old 09-12-2005, 10:01 AM   #18
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I usually get my parts from wholesalesubaruparts.com. I was looking for the timing belt tensioner and i saw two different things. I saw a t-belt tension adjuster ($100) and a timing belt tensioner ($37). the parts look completely different from each other and i was just wondering if anyone could shed some light on this. the t-belt tension adjuster is a rod with two bolt holes in it and the tensioner just looks like a circle. do i need both of these?

Thanks for all of the good responses.

Adam,
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Old 09-12-2005, 03:34 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abosworth
Has anyone done the timing belt without removing the radiator or pulling the engine?? Mike1967, when you say have a vaccum do you mean like just a regular shop vac? My a/c is not in working condition. my compressor is shot so i won't worry about the a/c dryer. that is a whole other project.
On the A/C Vacuum

It is my understanding that when you open up and evacuate your A/C system, you have to run a vacuume on it to pull air out of the system.

In a nutshell you reconnect all the hoses and then you connect a vacuum hose to either the low or high air nipple (cannot remember which off hand). You then pull a vacuume until you reach a certain pressure point (again I cannot remember the vacuum level off hand.)

After this has been don you can recharge the system with new coolant. This is also a good way to check for leaks in your system. If the system does not hold a vacuum then you know you have a leak.
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Old 09-12-2005, 03:35 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Sanderson
Mike has taken it to the extreme I think. But I bet you his a/c works perfectly. Now I know how he's able to use a 3/4" impact.

You can remove the fans to gain a couple inches of space. Don't forget to unplug them. And when you reinstall them don't torque the snot out the screws, it's plastic.

If you wish to remove the rad. then leave the fans on. Draining it with the rad. drain is slow and annoying. I like to pull the lower hose from the t-stat housing. If you want to try it wear safety glasses and have a wide container to catch the fluid.
Good running A/C is a MUST down here in Tejas

Also, I just had to use my brand new shiny impact wrench so I did not mind the extra break down and reassembly
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Old 09-13-2005, 12:58 PM   #21
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I think i will take Tim's advice and open it up and inspect everything visually. then i will order parts accordingly rather than just buying everything that could be replaced. I will just buy all the seals and timing belt ahead of time because they are so cheap. it doesen't sound that hard to access the timing belt and seals so i'm not worried about changing the t belt and then having to change the oil pump or water pump 3 months later. If i get in there and see that the waterpump or oil pump are damaged then i will replace them. They are kind of pricy to just replace for the hell of it. Thanks for all of the good feedback and advice. It will be a few weeks before i do this because i need to do rear breaks (rotors, pads, parking brake assembly) so i can get inspected. then i will tackle the tbelt.

Thanks again.

Adam
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Old 09-13-2005, 03:12 PM   #22
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wow I did mine in about 45 munutes on a car with 157,000 minnesota miles and I took my time. left in radiator, the idler puley almost came off as soon as i unbolted it (I used rope and breaker bar method) just remember to put at least cardboard in front of the radiator/condeser if you leave them in, so not to dent them
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Old 09-13-2005, 11:17 PM   #23
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Wouldn't putting the car in first gear hold the crank pulley still while it was taken off or put back on? It seems too easy, there must be something wrong with doing it that way...
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Old 09-14-2005, 09:34 AM   #24
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you would think it too easy, but it works great and has worked at least 20 times personally!
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Old 09-15-2005, 07:45 PM   #25
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Default That only works if you have a manual

If you have a 4eat, you can remove the fans and use a breaker bar & crank the engine to remove the crank pully bolt. It's alot easier to do a visual inspection after you remove the timing belt covers and see where the oil's leaking from.
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