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Old 09-13-2005, 12:22 PM   #1
crystalhelix
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Default The "wide" tire talk thread 255 and growing

For all auto-x-ers and road racers making the sqeeze into the upper echelon of tire width.

Discuss - Fitment issues regarding wheels with tire sizes 255 width and up and any other issues with running beyond normal width tires.

READ THE THREAD, TRUST US, ALL YOUR TIRES ARE BELONG TO US

seriously, all the answers to your tire questions are in this thread somewhere, 60% of the time we are right 100% of the time..

Sizing Information (Current as of 1/13/07)
...suggestions, keeping this list down to sticky tires in big sizes....
Kumho 710
http://www.avontyresusa.com/tires/tech_r_a.html
http://www.avontyresusa.com/tires/tech_r.html

BF GOODRICH G-force R1
http://bfgoodrichtires.com/overview/...e-r1/3824.html

I can add more links if you provide them to me..

Some helpfull information for you to figure things out on your own. Please take the time to not piss off the thread regulars.

How to find your tire size and read your side wall markings:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tirete....jsp?techid=33

Tire Size Differences and names of Dimensional Values (Including OFFSET!)
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tirete...e.jsp?techid=7
http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html
Enter your old tire size and your new tire size to see the size differential. In my opion you want to be looking at the "end" setting as that will affect rubbing the most.

Staying within 1/2" rolling diameter of the stock size is also about the max you want to grow the total diameter.

Also, keeping all 4 tires near the same diameter is important for your differentials to work properly.

If you are trying to decide on a R-comp tire it is nice to look at the sizing chart and look at the size rim the tire is being sized on. In general if you go smaller than the rim size specified, expect your section width to be a little smaller. If you use a bigger rim expect the section to be stretch and also be cautious that the rim will stick out past the tire even if it seats the bead.

TireRack's Definition of Contact Patch
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tirete....jsp?techid=10

In general here's what you can do, and by the way if you go and spend your money and don't do any research and get screwed because you believed everything I put here for THE answer than go F' yourself, it is the internet.

Let me start by saying:
2002-2004 Impreza Sedans are all the same for fitment. The bugeye may be a little different but I am guessing not much.
2005-2007 Impreza Sedans are also all the same for fitment. Now you have a plastic fender thingy on the rear wheel wells and a smaller lip extending into the wheel well which provides a little more clearance.

STi and WRX differences, the STi has a little different track in the rear, on 05+STi IIRC, that may reduce your outer clearance for the same size offset regarding sqeezing in big tires.

Hoosiers run bigger than kuhmo's for the same size, that's fact..

Don't run more than a 5mm spacer insert, you just won't have enough exposed stud threads to be safe, buy yourself a proper spacer kit or new longer studs, summit racing sells the ARP studs that are uber long enough for anything, you will need open lugs.

17 Inch Wheels (this section)
************************************************** *****
Stock Suspension

275/40R17 tires will fit with stock STi wheels, 7.5"-8" in width (+53), you will need to adjust your alignment in the front to avoid strut rub and you will need 3-5mm spacers for the rear depending on whether you have an 04 STi or not, 05 STi+ will fit, 08+ fitment unknown

If the above applies do the math. Any size up to 275 (with equivalent rolling diameter) will fit on the stock wheels. As you move into different suspension combinations you are adding variables. Lowering springs that are crap anyways will increase the likelhood of rubbing the front fender liners or rubbing on odd spots in the rear if you lower too much which is bad for suspension geometry anyways. I really don't care what you do it's your car.

Aftermarket suspensions

What seems to be the most likely issue here is what size spring (length and dia) you are using, where the lower spring perch ends up, the lower spring perch design, and what type of adjustability you have. Camber plates maxxed inwards and use of the lower camber bolt will allow maximum clearance.

275/40R17 tires will fit nicely on rim sizes from 9-10" and can be squeezed onto 8"-8.5" if neccesary.
You will likely need a +35 offset wheel to fit front and rear with modest (3mm) spacers available if needs be. Search the thread for your suspension, it's probably been brought up. These tires offer a larger rolling diameter if you are trying to squeeze a little more out of 2nd gear.

295/35R17 tires will fit nicely on rim sizes from 9-10" and perhaps up to 11" but I haven't tried it.
I have run these tires with a +25 offset with no major issues. You will likely need to roll and flare the rear fenders and I was thinking in the rear that a +35 offset may work still and make for better clearance. You will likely not tuck anything over a 275 (possibly a 285) in the rear of the car. These tires will probably stick out about an inch.

315/35R17 will fit 10-11" wheels. I have only run them on 10" wheels and I feel 11's would make the car a lot wider due to the accomodations that would need to be made to turn them in. I think AutoWRXer has run the 11's up front. I will talk to him about it. You will need a +20 or so offset wheel up front or in my case a +25 with a spacer. You will need to run a little higher in the rear or hack the rear fender up to keep from rubbing in the rear. Any amount of flaring or pulling in the rear really won't help, you will have to cut or ride high. In the front I have flared my fenders, pushed out the front bumper sides. There isn't even room to run mudflaps, so plan to take those off as well. Also you may have swaybar rub issues and you will go through fender liners every season at a minimum.

I am giving up a lot of information here. A lot of what I can do is also relevant to the suspension setup I am running. I am running ZZYZX motorsports coil-overs with custom camber/caster plates up front and camber plates in the rear. With this setup I can get anywhere up to -6 camber based on tire size and near +7 caster based on tire size. I also have the added droop and quality of Koni dampers. All my fenders are rolled and flared. I have opted not to cut at the moment, but it may be neccesary and I won't know that till I do some more dataAQ next year as our season here in Pittsburgh is April till beginning of October and it's pretty much over.

************************************************** *****
18 Inch Wheels (this section)


Thanks,
Justin

...guess I should read/update this thread more than yearly at this point, lol.
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Last edited by crystalhelix; 12-03-2010 at 02:54 PM.
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Old 09-13-2005, 12:31 PM   #2
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are you asking for Stock class only?
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Old 09-13-2005, 12:51 PM   #3
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Dude, there are no issues

255 - fits stock (02-05)
275 - fits stock (05) (04, slight spacer or less offset and roll rear fender, edit: the 8mm or 45ish offset wheel required to fit the 275s is not AS legal, it will work great for BSP though )
285/30/18 - just chop the front fenders a tad and use offset
315/35/17 - lots of offset, lots of fender, not worth it

<beep>Done</beep>

-Tom

Last edited by trhoppe; 11-08-2005 at 01:10 PM. Reason: blah!
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Old 09-13-2005, 01:00 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10th Warrior
are you asking for Stock class only?

I would think SM or SP only. I'm interested in this as well, looking at SP the year after next. Or whatever configuration SP is the year after next.

At what point does rim width become the limiting factor? 265? 275?
I think you can you get 8.5" wheels rear 9" front and up to 255 tire with minimal fender work.
After that it's cutting or flaring fenders. Or both.
And then a whole new differential of offsets.

Edit: oops thanks Tom

Last edited by mccanixx; 09-13-2005 at 01:21 PM.
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Old 09-13-2005, 01:03 PM   #5
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Setup that worked for me so far with no issues:

JIC FLTA-2 Coil Overs
255/40R17 Kumho Victoracers
17 X 8.5" SSR Competitions +48 offset
5mm spacer required for fitment - Strut clearance is a few
No issues running 7k/5k springs or 600lb/500lb springs

others can chime in with their working combos....and any feed back on fitment issues..

Last edited by crystalhelix; 09-13-2005 at 01:12 PM.
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Old 09-13-2005, 01:05 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trhoppe
Dude, there are no issues

255 - fits stock (02-05)
275 - fits stock (05) (04, slight spacer or less offset)
285/30/18 - just chop the front fenders a tad and use offset
315/35/17 - lots of offset, lots of fender, not worth it

<beep>Done</beep>

-Tom
Now all we need is a comment from KC and we can make this thread go away, lol. I had a lot of questions (edit:as a noob) running bigger sizes so I figured I'd start this thread. I was only trying to help as the number of question I am asking are slowing turning into answers for others.

:edited for stupidity:

Last edited by crystalhelix; 09-13-2005 at 01:18 PM.
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Old 09-13-2005, 01:07 PM   #7
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Well I guess what are your specific questions then?

-Tom
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Old 09-13-2005, 01:15 PM   #8
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It really depends on your struts. Struts that are narrower or attach a little more inboard are going to use less spacer. If you need to use a 5mm spacer, with wide rims/tires you might then run into fender problems. I ran 275/45/16 tires on my 02 WRX and used a 5mm spacer in the rear to get them to clear the strut. It still just barely fit under the rear fender after it was rolled.

On my 98 Impreza the wheels stick 2"+ outside the fender wells, so that requires either hacking or going to stiff spring rates. I hacked. The wheels I'm using are like +25 offset, so they have no issues with clearing the struts without a spacer, they are just about perfect actually, I couldn't have guessed any better.
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Old 09-13-2005, 01:23 PM   #9
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This is verging on PM material, but I'll throw in a few comments:

Justin, I'm actually making the 255 -> 275 jump for next season, so we are in the same place. Mundi's run the 275's a few times this season (where the heck is he, BTW) so he would be a resource as well.

My plan is to use 275 V-710's on the +48 17x8.5 SSR's. This will be in conjunction with extended studs and 15mm spacers. I expect to have to give up a little camber in back to make the 15mm spacers work, but based on Tom's comments, that sounds like it might be a good thing. I'm also expecting to do modest rear fender work, but I need to actually get the tires mounted up to evaluate that. Don't forget that your spring rates and ride height effect clearance too.

To me, the $64K question is the hubs. I want to know how much of the blasted knockback is a manifestation of the '04 hub. If it turns out to be the lion's share, I'll probably swap to '05 hubs, which obviously means new wheels, more OTS wide wheel options, etc. OTOH, if I stay with the '04 hubs, I'll probably need custom wheels to get enough offset for 285+ tires, which is where I'm planning to go for '07.

There's a little more to this, but I don't want to bogg things down at the outset.

Paul
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Old 09-13-2005, 01:26 PM   #10
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Quote:
I want to know how much of the blasted knockback is a manifestation of the '04 hub.
1000000%

Quote:
I'll probably swap to '05 hubs, which obviously means new wheels, more OTS wide wheel options, etc. OTOH, if I stay with the '04 hubs, I'll probably need custom wheels to get enough offset for 285+ tires, which is where I'm planning to go for '07.
The 05 Hub swap ain't as easy as you think. Search for Javid's posts on the subject as we are currently in the process of swapping his. While the rear is a complete piece of cake using the same knuckle so only a wheel bearing/hub is needed, The front ABS/Speed sensors no longer line up with the 04 axle using the 05 knuckle (no ABS or center diff) so you have to get some custom speed rings made/fit etc. Ol' Javid is working on that right now and I'm sure he'll post his solution once its found.

-Tom
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Old 09-13-2005, 01:31 PM   #11
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^Dammit, well I guess there's a hub swap in my future. That might be in the cards for '06 if it can be worked out, but I'll probably hold off. I know the 275's aren't ideal for 8.5" wheels, but they'll be a huge upgrade from my 255 Victo's.
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Old 09-13-2005, 01:47 PM   #12
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Now let's discuss the old chassis.... Has anyone been successful putting 255s without cutting the fender? If so, what setup? I am currently running JIC FLT-2RS coilovers.

Also, lots of talk about spacers...is there a 17x8 or 17x8.5 that will fit a 245 or 255, respectively, without spacers?

Thanks

Christian
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Old 09-13-2005, 02:13 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chin
Now let's discuss the old chassis.... Has anyone been successful putting 255s without cutting the fender? If so, what setup? I am currently running JIC FLT-2RS coilovers.
Sure, 255's are no problem without cutting. I have KW race coilovers and 255 Victoracers on +48 17/8.5 SSR's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chin
Also, lots of talk about spacers...is there a 17x8 or 17x8.5 that will fit a 245 or 255, respectively, without spacers?
I'm sure there is, but I don't know if they would be available OTS or with whatever other attributes you might seek.

My Victo's basically touch the rear perches without spacers, so the spacer thickness = the clearance. I have -1.2 rear camber, so some of that could be given up to run the +48 wheels without spacers. The fronts have just slightly more clearance with -3.0 camber. I fooled around with the alignment and spacers for a while before settling on the 5mm's. That's certainly as thick as I would go on the OEM studs and they provide good clearance with reasonable camber settings.
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Old 09-13-2005, 02:17 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chin
Now let's discuss the old chassis.... Has anyone been successful putting 255s without cutting the fender? If so, what setup? I am currently running JIC FLT-2RS coilovers.

Also, lots of talk about spacers...is there a 17x8 or 17x8.5 that will fit a 245 or 255, respectively, without spacers?

Thanks

Christian
I would imagine due to my situation that a 17 X 8.5" with a offset of +43 would make up for the 5mm spacer I am using with 255's thus working without spacers. This would still require fender rolling on a 04 (not sure 04+) unless you have less travel due to stiff springs.


Sciolist - wow! quite agressive you guys switching hubs for those issues. I guess it hasn't been a problem for me but what the hell do I know anyways.

J
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Old 09-13-2005, 02:27 PM   #15
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Thanks guys! I am considering going to 245 or 255 next year for my DSP '00 RS. When I saw this, I thought I would capitalize on having some experience in this thread. Based on the 225 V700 (17x7") I am running now, I didn't think you could get away with a 255s, without major mods. The camber discussion may be what I am looking for as I am currently running -3.2/-1.4 on the car currently with 9k/9k springs (note that the car is 2700# without driver). With the current setup, I have about 2-3mm to the spring perch, that could be increased with a little less camber.

Now that I see people have done it, I am more willing to take the wheel/tire plunge and play around until it fits.

Christian
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Old 09-13-2005, 02:29 PM   #16
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edit: Saw that you meant GC8.

I think steve from zzyzx and Jay from Storm Racing are about the only two that have tried wide tires on the GC8s. They ran 265s and 275s and what I believe both of them did is to use high enough spring rates to keep the tires off the fenders. Cutting is always an option though and if you hack, all you need to worry about is the offset to clear your strut.

-Tom

Last edited by trhoppe; 09-13-2005 at 02:37 PM.
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Old 09-13-2005, 02:33 PM   #17
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My contribution to this thread is for 05 Stis in stock class.

Stock 05 Sti with 17x8 48 offset wheels will fit a 255/40-17 victoracer on the car with no rubbing at all. About 15 mm or more of space between the rear tire and rear strut.

Stock 05 Sti with 17x8 48 offset wheels will fit a 275/40-17 v710 on the car with no rubbing at all. Only about 5 mm of space between the tire and the rear strut.

Stock 05 Sti with 17x8.5 48 offset wheels will fit 255/40-17 victos on the car with no rubbing at all. About 12 mm of space between the tire and rear strut.

There is a big difference between the 275 (v710s) and the 255 (victos). I would highly recommend it, even on the same 17x8 wheel.
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Old 09-13-2005, 02:35 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trhoppe
Old chassis? As in GC8? or do you mean the 02-04? If its the latter, its the same exact thing as the 05 but without the factory rolled rear fenders.

-Tom
<-
GC...I guess I see the 04 as a body change to the '05, but I guess technically, it may be called a chasis change. Sorry for the confusion.
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Old 09-13-2005, 02:39 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chin
<-
GC...I guess I see the 04 as a body change to the '05, but I guess technically, it may be called a chasis change. Sorry for the confusion.
Oh no, I agree, 04-05 was just a factory fender roll, GC->GD was a chassis change. I modded my post above as I saw you meant GC after I posted

-Tom
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Old 09-13-2005, 02:43 PM   #20
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I've been running 275/40-17 hoosier on 17x8 35mm offset Enkeis on my 04 STi. No rubbage, except on the rear fender lip when I hit huge bumps (north course nationals) or have Tom in the backseat.



Chris H.
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Old 09-13-2005, 02:43 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trhoppe
285/30/18 - just chop the front fenders a tad and use offset
-Tom
Can you please elaborate? I'm going this route with the new zzyzx coilovers for next year most likely.
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Old 09-13-2005, 02:45 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SloRice
Can you please elaborate? I'm going this route with the new zzyzx coilovers for next year most likely.


1) take saw
2) cut fenders so the tire won't hit them
3) ??????
4) profit!



example 1: http://www.tomhoppe.com/pictures/04_...s/IMG_0567.jpg
example 2: http://www.trackmonkeyracing.com/pic...e/IMG_2987.jpg

-Tom
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Old 09-13-2005, 02:47 PM   #23
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I'm running 275/45/16s on 16x10 rims on a GC car, with around 600lb springs in the rear and front currently. I also cut the fenders out about 1.5" in the front and rear. If you had really high springrates the only place I think I'd need to cut out were the rear part of the front fenders, because at full lock you just can't get the tire past it. Anyways, the rims I am running are 10" wide and have a 5" backspace (or maybe 6 I'd have to go back and look). I have maybe 5mm or so clearance to the rear strut currently to my ground control coilovers. Fronts have plenty of room.

http://my.execpc.com/~pbedard/smcar/car.jpg

Jay is running the same wheels only his are 9" wide, and he's using 265 V710s.
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Old 09-13-2005, 02:55 PM   #24
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Tom,
My goal is to run that setup with as little fender "modification" as possible. If I have to, I will, but I just don't want it to look like a hack job. That's why i'm looking the route of custom fender flares - not the ghey widebody kits that are out there.

From your original post, you made it sound like 285/30/18's could be tucked....that's why I asked for the elaboration.
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Old 09-13-2005, 02:58 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crystalhelix
Sciolist - wow! quite agressive you guys switching hubs for those issues. I guess it hasn't been a problem for me but what the hell do I know anyways.
If we were road racing I would have ditched the hubs long ago (assuming Tom's right, and I expect he is). All of this has to be taken in context, though. The SP rules don't allow me to do the brakes, so I can't take full advantage of what would otherwise be some major unsprung weight loss. I can't even change the composition of the rotors, so basically we are left with retrofitting pads, fluid and SS lines.

My suspicion is that the calipers don't advance the pads as well when they start getting thin. That's easy enough to evaluate with new pads, which I will do soon.

The big rub with all of this is that new hubs mean new wheels. I'd have to go custom (right?) to get 10" wheels to fit the 5x100 hubs. Either way, it's going to cost some $ to get 285's+ on the car, I just want to make sure the whole thing is thought through before I start into cuttin'. Running 275's for '06 gives me some time to figure it all out, and maybe even gives the aftermarket a little more time to respond.

Re the aggression, hey baby, ignorance is bliss!
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The WRX finally gets some wide tires bigbrakeparts New England Impreza Club Forum -- NESIC 21 04-20-2009 02:37 AM
wide tires/narrow tires, what brand is what in the same size? fiveoh88 Tire & Wheel 3 11-04-2008 04:41 PM
Would the Tire Rack consider having a "fitting" test of wide rims? crystalhelix Tire & Wheel 27 01-19-2006 09:56 PM
STi - 7.5 " Wide Rim, What's the thinnest tire? Kenneth2000 Tire & Wheel 1 11-03-2003 10:30 AM
Wide tires and the WRX Wagon K-WRX Brakes, Steering & Suspension 1 06-25-2001 03:12 PM


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