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Old 09-27-2005, 04:27 PM   #1
xcntrk75
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Member#: 60224
Join Date: Apr 2004
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: NOVA
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2008 FXT Sports 2.5
Dark Grey Metallic

Wink Should I install this crap on my BD?

IHI VF-22 (490 CFM at 18.0 PSI):


Deadbolt Monster Port:


Deadbolt Black Xtreme turbine housing coating:


Modified EJ20 injectors (820cc)


These goodies combined with the Alky-Injection system I’m installing should net me anywhere from 320whp low to 360whp high…

Discuss....
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Old 09-27-2005, 04:34 PM   #2
subiekid
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EJ22T/TEC3 & '12 Civic

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Too much lag. If you want to autox the car at all, look at something with a better range of power, not just lots of top end.
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Old 09-27-2005, 04:59 PM   #3
xcntrk75
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^^^^
That's why I had it ported, quicker spool. Besides those WRX owners who use this turbo and complain about lag are running FMIC’s, stock boost controllers, and trying to spin 22psi out of those setups. No wonder they claim lag...

I run a dedicated electronic boost controller and upgraded solenoid (AVCR) with a TMIC (less piping). This combined with the Alky injection should enable me to run 22+psi all the way to redline while keeping my EGT’s down below 1,400F.

I got the AVCR specifically to support a much larger turbo setup like this. The valve is so stinking fast that it’s almost dangerous running it with the smaller stock wrx turbo (current setup). By getting rid of the stock bleed setup, I can literally spool from 0 to 18psi in less than a second once past 3k RPM…. It’s sick… I’m confident it will help the laggy VF22 get to speed much quicker then on a stock BC setup.

Also, I’ve already autocrossed my car and am at a huge disadvantage due to the motor swap. It immediately bumps me up into the Street Modified (SM)class where I have to compete against some crazy beasts where basically anything goes. That said, I need all the power I can get, and a smaller (faster spooling) turbo simply isn’t going to cut it…
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Old 09-27-2005, 05:29 PM   #4
xcntrk75
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Just want to clarify a little further about this laggy VF22 combined with an AVCR electronic boost controller:

The stock wrx boost controller is a bleeder configuration which basically bleeds air pressure between the wastegate and pressure side of the turbo to control boost. The problem with this setup is that there is always positive pressure on the wastegate diaphragm once past wastegate spring pressure (7psi). This positive pressure keeps the diaphragm from closing all the way with exhaust gas leaking by when attempting to build full-boost (less efficient) and hence bleeder type of BC.

The AVCR solenoid (which I'm currently using) is an interruption type of BC unlike the stock unit and actually separates (blocks) the positive pressure side of the turbo from that of the wastegate actuator. This means while building boost there is zero pressure on the wastegate diaphragm until peak boost has been met, then the valve allow the wastegate to variably open and sustain boost level. Since there is no positive pressure allowing the wastegate to leak while building boost (unlike the stock unit) quicker spool-up is achieved…
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Old 09-27-2005, 05:41 PM   #5
leondal
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You have and EJ20 swap, yes?
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Old 09-27-2005, 06:22 PM   #6
MitchGT
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Ummm, I vote YES!!!

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Old 09-27-2005, 06:26 PM   #7
xcntrk75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leondal
You have and EJ20 swap, yes?
Yep, EJ20 (ej205) and 5MT...
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Old 09-27-2005, 06:37 PM   #8
Wiscon_Mark
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as long as your drivetrain can handle the extra power and your wallet can handle the decreased fuel economy, I say YES!
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Old 09-27-2005, 07:44 PM   #9
sybir
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Be careful with the modded WRX injectors, I've seen goofy flow out of some of the sets.
That said, good luck. I'll be itnerested to see what you're at compared to my VF34/pink setup when I finally get it in.
I used to drive my roommate's car with a 22, and I'd be lying if I said the late power delivery didn't make it a more fun and involving car to drive
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Old 09-28-2005, 03:24 AM   #10
subiekid
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sybir
Be careful with the modded WRX injectors, I've seen goofy flow out of some of the sets.
I remember someone posted that 3 of their injectors worked, while the 4th was dead. There was also an issue with cleaning the injectors after they had been modded.

Sybir, are you going with the ej20? What version are you looking at? I am thinking about pulling the ej22t, and getting an newer motor, but keeping my TEC 3. I guess I should do a 6 speed swap first, my AT is about dead.
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Old 09-28-2005, 07:37 AM   #11
xcntrk75
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I had the injectors inspected, cleaned, and flow-tested. They came back with the following ratings and I’ll be installing them in the following cylinders:

CC/MIN
824 - Cyl# 4
821 - Cyl# 3
820 - Cyl# 2
818 - Cyl# 1
System balance of 0.7
Average of 820.8cc/min

The UTEC tuners will use injector scaling and probably only go as high as 750 or so even though they’re capable of 820. There’s no way with this turbo I’ll see anywhere above 80% injector duty cycle at 500cfm anyway.

So my goal here with this setup is the killer top end power of a VF22, but to have it spool up quicker like a VF34/39.
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Old 09-28-2005, 07:48 AM   #12
xcntrk75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiscon_Mark
as long as your drivetrain can handle the extra power and your wallet can handle the decreased fuel economy, I say YES!
Well there’s only one way to find out…

My tranny is still completely stock
Although I’m running an 2005 5MT which has the bigger (wider) and therefore stronger gears over the 02/03 models. At least that’s what I keep telling myself.

I’ve thought long and hard about a 6MT swap and I finally decided not to go that route. I think the 5 gears are better suited for the strip (I love the 1/4 mile) and believe it or not, also for the autocross track. While working the track this past weekend I was talking with an sti owner who didn’t like the 6 speed on the course because he was constantly shifting between 2nd & 3rd and felt this was reducing his time. I on the other hand never left 2nd with the log legged wrx 5MT.

The other factor is that you can build an equally as strong (if not stronger) 5MT for less than the cost of the 6MT alone. I’m fortunate to be located in the same area as one of the best Subaru tranny builders around who uses very high quality PPG gearsets. I can get a PPG strait cut 1-4 installed with new syncros, speedo gear, and labor for around 4k. Expensive, but much cheaper then the 5K+ for an sti 6-speed. Not to mention the hidden cost involved with rear-gearing the rear end or swapping it out all together.
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Old 09-28-2005, 10:11 AM   #13
sybir
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Yes.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by subiekid
I remember someone posted that 3 of their injectors worked, while the 4th was dead. There was also an issue with cleaning the injectors after they had been modded.

Sybir, are you going with the ej20? What version are you looking at? I am thinking about pulling the ej22t, and getting an newer motor, but keeping my TEC 3. I guess I should do a 6 speed swap first, my AT is about dead.


I'm in CA, so I'm doing the whole swap legit out of an '02 WRX wagon. Normal EJ20.

When I pop that, I have an EJ22T waiting that I'll build up into a 2.35 stroker, and break my transmission
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Old 09-28-2005, 12:01 PM   #14
PHATsuby
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to stock is a project too

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obviously you know my answer INSTALL THEM!!!

has the porting really shown to give a great decrease in spoolup time? I can see benefits of less backpressure, but that seems like the gains would be seen up top and not down low? I am not totally sure, so if you have the answers please let me know.

Also, Jeff Sponaugle lovingly calls the vf22 the 'tranny breaker' since he busted two 5mt's with his VF22 back in the day. So, just be warned and have money on hand for a six speed

obviously keep us posted with pics!!

you are all about performance, huge props!

Ben
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Old 09-28-2005, 12:04 PM   #15
PHATsuby
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to stock is a project too

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ok, nevermind you addressed the six speed option, haha. straight cut with syncros would be nice. also, these days(since i know you do your own labor) you should be able to do a full six speed swap for 4k, that is with a 3.9 R160 though, but that does fine. can't go wrong with some thick straight cut gears though.

Ben
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Old 09-28-2005, 12:09 PM   #16
xcntrk75
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Ben, you are the luckiest guy in the world to be working there (PDX) where you have access to all these super Scooby guru’s like Jeff Sponaugle, Bailey, Perrin, Posner, and Brakenbraugh…

“Hey Jeff [Sponaugle], what do you think of the trusty old VF22 turbo…?”, “well my young apprentice Ben, I like to call it the Tranny Breaker…!”

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Old 09-28-2005, 12:15 PM   #17
PHATsuby
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to stock is a project too

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wait, aren't they lucky to have access to me? ROFL Jk, yea it is sweet, too bad I am back in MN, but I still work for them, hoping to be at SEMA with the crew in november then back out there over winter break or next summer.

you should make a trip out

Ben
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Old 09-28-2005, 12:17 PM   #18
PHATsuby
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to stock is a project too

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check out the future of your 3rd gear here http://www.wrxworld.com/videos/pirmay10.htm (last video) That is Sponaugle and Perrin in the passenger seat. haha.

Ben
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Old 09-28-2005, 12:27 PM   #19
xcntrk75
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Thanks… that’s inspiring…

Yeah it’s cheaper to do 1st, 2nd gear only but as that video has proven, you can still pop gears. I plan to do the 1st, 2nd pair and the 3rd, 4th pair all together. The question is strait-cut or helical gears? They’re nearly the same price yet strait-cut are so much stronger but often annoying with the loud ass whine they cause. Some people enjoy the sound as you’ll definitely turn some heads (sounds like that supercharged mustang sound) when you roll down the road. Another option is say a strait-cut 1,2 then a helical cut 3,4 or some similar combination. That way at higher speeds you’re not producing the annoying whine.
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Old 09-28-2005, 12:29 PM   #20
PHATsuby
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personally I like the whine, people who actually know will know you are serious, and you will know too

you are right though, straight cut is much stronger, mmmmmm straight cut.

It is funny, up until I went out to PDX, i always associated brake squeak with bad brakes, but now I associate it with performance brake setups with aggressive pads, haha. now you can associate tranny whine with having a serious gear set in.

Ben
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Old 09-28-2005, 08:22 PM   #21
subiekid
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sybir
I'm in CA, so I'm doing the whole swap legit out of an '02 WRX wagon. Normal EJ20.

When I pop that, I have an EJ22T waiting that I'll build up into a 2.35 stroker, and break my transmission
Are you just going to run new rods and pistons for the 2.35? Do you have a link to the parts you are considering? Maybe I will just pick up some WRX heads and intake manifold and get this thing really going.
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Old 09-29-2005, 12:30 AM   #22
sybir
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subiekid
Are you just going to run new rods and pistons for the 2.35? Do you have a link to the parts you are considering? Maybe I will just pick up some WRX heads and intake manifold and get this thing really going.

I'll have to bug the motor guy, but IIRC, it's a 2.5 crank, and custom pistons and rods to keep the right stroke; will be likely Pauter or Crower rods and Arias pistons, but we'll see. That's a ways off. need to get the car swapped over winter first
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Old 09-29-2005, 07:53 PM   #23
subiekid
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sybir
I'll have to bug the motor guy, but IIRC, it's a 2.5 crank, and custom pistons and rods to keep the right stroke; will be likely Pauter or Crower rods and Arias pistons, but we'll see. That's a ways off. need to get the car swapped over winter first
I thought crawford performance made a kit to do the 2.35. I checked their site but did not see anything. How much do you think the parts will be?

xcntrk75, sorry for getting off subject
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Old 09-29-2005, 09:14 PM   #24
sybir
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Yes.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by subiekid
I thought crawford performance made a kit to do the 2.35. I checked their site but did not see anything. How much do you think the parts will be?

xcntrk75, sorry for getting off subject
More than I should spend
I may just drop in a 2.5 block, they're cheap enough when you get dealer cost.

I should probably pick up a new Legacy at some point, too, but I don't think I can bear (or afford, lol) to sell this car.
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