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Old 09-16-2005, 09:02 PM   #1
lag
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to live in fear

Default Has AWD spoiled you?

I've had my baby for almost 3 years now and want something with more power for the daily grind. But I've been spoiled with AWD, I love it in the rain, snow, and the dry, mmmm nothing like exiting in on ramp at 60mph+ with the pedal on the floor and your supervisor screaming like a girl LOL. I really don't like the looks of the newer GT's (are toyota and subaru colaberating now?) but don't want the cost of an audi, though they are my favorite sedan. So I keep going back to my GT, I just say throw a WRX engine in it and call it good for anothe 3 years. The only thing that I don't like about my GT and that can not easily be fixed are the ratio's, the final drive is just to short for relaxed highway crusing.

What car would you buy if you couldn't have your scooby?
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Old 09-16-2005, 10:11 PM   #2
whoosh
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put a tower strut bar and swaybars on and you'll like your car better.
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Old 09-16-2005, 11:45 PM   #3
Wiscon_Mark
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lag
What car would you buy if you couldn't have your scooby?
Probably an Audi A4 3.0 Quattro

As for the engine swap, I'd say do it...if you're not comfortable with 3000rpms at 70mph, then put it on cruise and sound deaden your firewall
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Old 09-17-2005, 12:17 AM   #4
ooberdoob
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Stage III Audi S4

reality? SVT Focus (i'd miss the AWD so bad) or... hell i dunno. so many choices, but none that stand up to subaru.

i'm not really sure

+1 for the swap.
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Old 09-17-2005, 02:09 PM   #5
xcntrk75
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I must agree with everybody above… The Audi’s are truly an AWD enthusiast’s perfect vehicle. Up till this model year, the S4 came equipped with twin turbo V6, and now the NA V8 with more power then one would know what to do with. Not only that but they’re built solid too, unlike the Subaru’s where any power upgrade mandates drivetrain upgrades.

A buddy of mine has a stock S4, and although my boosted Legacy is a tad bit quicker, the Audi is so much nice in every way. I’d rather go for a spirited ride in his S4 anyday over a drive my Legacy…
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Old 09-17-2005, 02:33 PM   #6
Wiscon_Mark
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xcntrk75
I’d rather go for a spirited ride in his S4 anyday over a drive my Legacy…
oooh, that's a tough one...but I'd probably agree...
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Old 09-17-2005, 04:33 PM   #7
ooberdoob
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xcntrk75
I’d rather go for a spirited ride in his S4 anyday over a drive my Legacy…
you do that, i'll take your legacy

seriously.

want a spare testicle? you can have mine in trade
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Old 09-17-2005, 05:06 PM   #8
xcntrk75
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The Audi’s have something that Subaru’s don’t… Luxury and class…
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Old 09-17-2005, 06:55 PM   #9
lag
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Yep, Everyday I debate about just going ahead and getting an Audi S4, the twin turbo 2nd gen. I love 'em, the only reason I got my GT was because I didn't want the payment for a V6 quattro at the time. Now I can afford it but I'm used to not *having* (ie: car payment) to spend money on a car. But I love the audi's.
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Old 09-17-2005, 07:17 PM   #10
Wiscon_Mark
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ooberdoob
you do that, i'll take your legacy

seriously.

want a spare testicle? you can have mine in trade



You know a testicle is worth ~60,000 dollars...that'd get you an audi and a swap on your leggy
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Old 09-17-2005, 09:03 PM   #11
lag
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hmmm, really? $60,000 you say... I have two that are no good to me.
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Old 09-17-2005, 11:16 PM   #12
ooberdoob
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i don't wanna bring children into this fubared world, so let get snippin! throw a couple river rocks in there, **** i don't care, as long as i can hit 20+ lbs of boost.
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Old 09-17-2005, 11:28 PM   #13
Wiscon_Mark
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they'll even throw in teflon imitators so you retain the realistic look and feel
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Old 09-18-2005, 11:03 PM   #14
Huffer
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AWD has definitely spoiled me.

I definitely like the new 04 and 05 LGTs, their interiors are solid, well made and the car still handles well. The small turbo spools quick and just a few mods bring the car into NA-like response. The chassis is bigger, and more tuned for comfort, but again - a few bolt ons and it's good to go.

And unlike the BD and BE series Leggies, the new GT doesn't look out of place next to an Audi or a BMW.

I had the pleasure of installing a Crucial up and downpipe combo on an LGT a week ago - and yesterday we had it tuned via ECUtek. on the baseline run, with no ECU reset and no CELs, the car made 190-odd whp. with the tune, it made 220whp. The car was tuned to provide loads of mid-range torque. Now when cruising in 5th, there's no need to change down to spool up before passing.

If I didn't have my existing Subaru - I'd get a newer 04/05 LGT. They're just great cars. And good value for money I think. Plus they're so "sleeperish".
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Old 09-19-2005, 12:53 AM   #15
Tizzle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ooberdoob
Stage III Audi S4
.
audi S1
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Old 09-19-2005, 12:25 PM   #16
LegacySTI
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I say do the swap and call it good. The bad things about the S4 is high insurance and the cost of parts. I do love the S4 but with the money you spend to buy one you can make your legacy just as nice without the insurance/parts cost.
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Old 09-19-2005, 01:07 PM   #17
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Naw - I think AWD is a waste on a car with less than 200 (maybe 250) HP (unless you are in snow). The legacy is just way too slow. To much weight, too much drivetrain loss. The engine isn't bad, it just isn't strong enough to overcome the inertia of the car. It is just too sluggish for me. Wheelspin isn't a problem on a car that slow.

I finally got fed up and got a bi-turbo S4 (they are amazingly inexpensive used). The Subaru quality (reliability) is much higher than Audi. But, you can very easily upgrade the HP of the Audi (320 HP and almost 400ft-lbs torque) where the drivetrain of the subaru is already at its limit. Audi has a much nicer AWD system than the subaru (although they both are good).

Quality wise, my head gaskets just went on the legacy. While that lowers my oppinion of the Subaru quality, Subaru of America did agree to pay the $2200 bill for me even though technically the problem was not under warranty. I gotta give them bonus points for that!
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Old 09-19-2005, 01:13 PM   #18
Huffer
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A waste on a car with an "arbitrary" power limit?
Have you ever been on the cornering limit, going downhill, in the wet?
AWD isn't a waste, ever. You can always use an AWD system, no matter what car.
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Old 09-19-2005, 01:29 PM   #19
Kawikid20o2
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so your going to compare a subaru legacy 2.5 or 2.2 watever to a twin turbo V-6 audi and then say that the audi has more potential. Any turbo car has more potential to make more than stock or than an N/A car. Get a chip turn up the boost. The legacy and the A4/s4 were not designed to compete with each other, they are too different.

I know that if i turn the AWD off in my car, it drives like crap, even before the turbo it would spin all the way through 3rd gear on an auto in the rain if i hit oil or something. The car feels more solid with the AWD.

By the way Audi has plenty of slow AWD cars on the road, just look at the old 1.8t's. 150hp yea, that sounds like less than a 2.5rs or LGT. not to mention how they aren't even that reliable and the S4 is even worse in that catagory.
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Old 09-19-2005, 02:17 PM   #20
bhall
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xcntrk75
The Audi’s have something that Subaru’s don’t… Luxury and class…
and huge repair bills after the warranty runs out. I am under impressed with VW/audi when it comes to long term reliability but that may just be my personal experience. I think they are great looking cars and run sweet when they run but thats about it.

As for an other car I would go with a new maxima or the g35x
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Old 09-19-2005, 02:44 PM   #21
Mx5racer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bhall
and huge repair bills after the warranty runs out. I am under impressed with VW/audi when it comes to long term reliability but that may just be my personal experience. I think they are great looking cars and run sweet when they run but thats about it.

As for an other car I would go with a new maxima or the g35x
Its not just you. Audi/VW suck when it comes to long term reliability
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Old 09-19-2005, 02:55 PM   #22
xcntrk75
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Hmmm…. Only real complaint I’ve heard from S4 owners is about blowing the stock K03 turbos, which from what I understand is a common problem with the pre-2001.5 bi-turbo models. Kind of like the 100k mile Legacy head-gasket dependability issue…

PS: I’d rather have a G35-Coupe over any vehicle mentioned in this thread… but no AWD…
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Old 09-19-2005, 02:59 PM   #23
Mx5racer
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How do you turn that AWD off?

I beg to differ about Subaru and Audi not competing. Subaru clearly has Audi in its sights. It wants to be the Japanese Audi. Subaru and Audi are often mentioned in the same breath in the automotive press, and I have read many test reports of compact sedans that have Audi and Subaru going head to head.

For me they are in the same league - I bought both of them.

I did turn my AWD off in a novel fashion:
I had a 150 HP FWD A4. Wheel spin was not a problem, unless there was snow or ice on the ground. It was faster than my Legacy, even though the legacy has more HP (165). The legacy is just dog slow. And, the transmission and engine are not going to handle any upgrades. In my book, bolting on a supercharger is a great upgrade for the right car. I love it. But I would never do it to the subaru - it can't take the pressure (literally).

In any car that takes more than 8 seconds to get to 60mph, AWD is a waste in my book. It takes too much HP from the engine and adds too much weight for a car that has a hard time spinning its wheels if not in snow.

I did boost the Audi's HP to 200 HP, and then wheelspin started to become a problem. At this point it was a much, much faster than the legacy. My "clever" solution was to ditch the A4 and get the S4. Yes, at 250 HP AWD makes a big difference in my book (and even more so at 320HP). At 150 HP it is a waste that a slow car can not afford.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawikid20o2
so your going to compare a subaru legacy 2.5 or 2.2 watever to a twin turbo V-6 audi and then say that the audi has more potential. Any turbo car has more potential to make more than stock or than an N/A car. Get a chip turn up the boost. The legacy and the A4/s4 were not designed to compete with each other, they are too different.

I know that if i turn the AWD off in my car, it drives like crap, even before the turbo it would spin all the way through 3rd gear on an auto in the rain if i hit oil or something. The car feels more solid with the AWD.

By the way Audi has plenty of slow AWD cars on the road, just look at the old 1.8t's. 150hp yea, that sounds like less than a 2.5rs or LGT. not to mention how they aren't even that reliable and the S4 is even worse in that catagory.
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Old 09-19-2005, 03:03 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xcntrk75
Hmmm…. Only real complaint I’ve heard from S4 owners is about blowing the stock K03 turbos, which from what I understand is a common problem with the pre-2001.5 bi-turbo models. Kind of like the 100k mile Legacy head-gasket dependability issue…

PS: I’d rather have a G35-Coupe over any vehicle mentioned in this thread… but no AWD…
Yeah, I was griping about reliabilty of Audi's turbos until my head gaskets went out on the Legacy a few months later. I wasn't too pleased when the dealer told me this type of failure was not covered under warranty either.

I agree, I woudn't want AWD on the G35 either. I would probably rather have it than the S4 or the Legacy too, but not enough to change (yet).

The S4 and Legacy are my winter beaters. I use RWD for the summer...
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Old 09-19-2005, 03:13 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mx5racer
I did boost the Audi's HP to 200 HP, and then wheelspin started to become a problem.
A little OT, but it sounds like you needed to invest in a better set of tires on that A4

I lay down 260whp in my Legacy and with quality tires coupled with a rear-lsd, I have a hard time breaking loose all four on dry pavement….and that’s with 5k+ RPM launches and 13second 1/4 miles…

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mx5racer
How do you turn that AWD off?
The older 4EAT's have a FWD bypass circuit which can be used for towing...
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