Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Thursday July 10, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC General > Proven Power Bragging

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-22-2005, 01:09 PM   #1
PDXTuning
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 49831
Join Date: Dec 2003
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: www.pdxtuning.com
Vehicle:
2008 Get Tuned Now
Knowledge is Power

Default 510 lb-ft with the FP Red (Part 2)

As most of you have seen from the previous thread (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=849824) we have been pushing the 8cm Forced Performance Red on one of the PDXTuning STIs.

We took the car over to the local Dynapak dyno for some more tuning. Our goal was to push the midrange boost a bit more, and refine some of the fueling. We target getting a bit over 30psi in the midrange, as well as having it hold to 30psi at redline. We set the boost controller (AVCR) to 90% duty cycle the entire run (learn and feedback off), so this is about the max of what the internal wastegate combo will run.

The results:

510 lb-ft of torque at 4900 rpm, and 521hp at 6700 rpm.

These runs were done on the Dynapak, which as you can see below, records a LOT more torque compared to the Matrix Mustang Dyno. It is well established that this dyno design (which hold the car at the start RPM for a configurable time, often 2-4 seconds) can results in higher then normal torque. (at least when compared to a regular inertial dyno). Also, the load pushed against the car is linear in nature, as the dyno tries to control the ramp time to a liner and constrained rate. (you set the time for a pull). On the other hand, the Mustang simulates real world load by adding additional drag at higher RPM to simulate aero drag. To be clear, in no way would this same car make 510 lb-ft on the Mustang dyno. This should be yet another clear demonstration that you can't make comparisons across different kinds of dynos (much less even the same kind).

Here is the plot of what the car did. ( Note that this is with SAE corrections, which are what most shops use. The dyno can also show either uncorrected or DIN correction. The correction factor wasnít much, since the SAE standard is at 77 degrees, and it was about 80 on the dyno. ) I have not yet seen a shop post results with DIN correction (which reads lower).




As per the previous thread, this is with C-16 fuel, AFRs in the 12.0-12.5 range, and timing was as per the previous thread as well (ramping to as much as 31 at redline).

Also, on the previous thread it was mentioned about the possibility of this car doing a 10 second 1/4mile. While we have not raced the car yet, I would suspect we could get something in the low 11s, but I would not comment or promise it having the power to do mid to high 10 seconds. Based on what I have seen from our results on the mustang dyno, something in the 380-400whp range usually nets 118-119 mph trap speeds, and perhaps 11.9-1.7 ETs. ET's are very dependent on the launch, while trap speed is more power dependent. You would suspect that 500 whp on the Mustang dyno would net something in the 125mph range. As for the ETs, it would be very dependant on the launch and the shifting.

Perhaps someone can reflresh my memory: What power levels were other cars in the 10ís running? (complete STIs of course, not gutted lighted cars)

Looking back at the archives:

"STI 591.1whp USDM *update*-> 10.76@133.5 and video as proof "
and
"Few month ago we run 11.2@128mph with 504whp with a USDM STI. "

Using the Mustang numbers (506whp), I would suspect that if we get a good launch and great run, something in the 11.2@128 might be in the cards.

However, the 10.76@133 was with 591whp (a LOT more), and NOS!

Cheers,

Jeff Sponaugle
PDXTuning
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

Last edited by PDXTuning; 09-22-2005 at 01:44 PM.
PDXTuning is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2005, 01:09 PM   #2
PDXTuning
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 49831
Join Date: Dec 2003
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: www.pdxtuning.com
Vehicle:
2008 Get Tuned Now
Knowledge is Power

Default

For more data..

To refresh everyones memory:



Mod List:

Fully balanced and printed block with CP Pistons
Supersecret assembly technique (just kidding! Tim and I build the block in my garage!)
Stock heads, gaskets, and cams
ARP Head Studs
Forced Performance FP Red with uber cool 8cm turbine housing and 3" inlet.
Perrin FMIC
Perrin Intake
Perrin Modified Injectors
Perrin BigInlet for 3" turbos
TurboXS Turboback exhaust (catless)
AVCR Boost Controller
Exede Hypersingle Clutch
Walbro 255lph fuel pump
Cobb AccessPort with ProTuner

Also, here is an overlay of Tims car a while ago on the same dyno with a 7cm Green on race fuel. That particular tune was very very wavy because we later determined the wastegate door was a bit loose, and the AVCR had significant trouble keeping the boost constant (thus the nice sweeps in power!)


Last edited by PDXTuning; 09-22-2005 at 01:46 PM.
PDXTuning is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2005, 01:17 PM   #3
x99percent
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 27108
Join Date: Oct 2002
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Detroit-ish, MI
Vehicle:
2004 STi
2004 A4

Default

Funny, I was just talking to someone else about how differently the DynaPack and Mustang dynos read... it's nice to see results from the same car on the two different dynos.
x99percent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2005, 01:25 PM   #4
PDXTuning
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 49831
Join Date: Dec 2003
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: www.pdxtuning.com
Vehicle:
2008 Get Tuned Now
Knowledge is Power

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by x99percent
Funny, I was just talking to someone else about how differently the DynaPack and Mustang dynos read... it's nice to see results from the same car on the two different dynos.
Yep. To be fair, the car actually produces much more torque on the dynapak, due to the load and holding. It's not so much that it measures incorrectly, but more so that its tests the car in a different configuration.

As for which one is more like the street, I'll be posting some data on that soon.

Cheers,

Jeff
PDXTuning is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2005, 01:32 PM   #5
flycaster
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 60142
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Bend, OR
Vehicle:
2011 WRX
Grey

Default

So, the waves in both curves are boost fluctuations. Interesting. I guess that makes a case for EWG's. Can you feel this at all on the road?

The difference in dyno numbers is striking. When you guys tuned my GT30R and it made "only" 335 ft.lbs on the Matrix mustang, I tried to explain this concept to a guy with a 20G who is convinced he makes almost 60 ft lbs more. I didn't push it since I don't think he was too interested in hearing it, and we're both happy regardless.

Last edited by flycaster; 09-22-2005 at 01:38 PM.
flycaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2005, 01:36 PM   #6
PDXTuning
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 49831
Join Date: Dec 2003
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: www.pdxtuning.com
Vehicle:
2008 Get Tuned Now
Knowledge is Power

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by flycaster
So, the waves in both curves are boost fluctuations. Interesting. I guess that makes a case for EWG's. Can you feel this at all on the road?
Yes.. On the Green, it was noticable on the boost gauge as well. On the Red, I noticed the dips, but there were not as bad.

On the road, it doesn't really occur. The loading on the road is much different, and the boost controller really seems to learn better.

To be clear, I think it would have worked MUCH better with an external wastegate, which we will fit on the car right away.

Cheers,

Jeff
PDXTuning is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2005, 02:22 PM   #7
MARKGSTI
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 70197
Join Date: Sep 2004
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PDXTuning
Supersecret assembly technique (just kidding! Tim and I build the block in my garage!)

Where did you get that one from...the guys from PR

Any info about the Green with the bigger 3" compressor cover??
MARKGSTI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2005, 06:00 PM   #8
deluxsti
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 84313
Join Date: Apr 2005
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Boise, ID
Vehicle:
04 Aspen STi

Default

great job guys

so is this flywheel hp or whp, because the other thread says whp and the dyno here says flywheel, or am i just a noobie to the whole dyno conversions

dynapack is the one the bolts to the brakes right?
deluxsti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2005, 06:15 PM   #9
dwx
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 8343
Join Date: Jul 2001
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Atlanta, GA
Vehicle:
2005 2012 Jeep
2013 DGM BRZ

Default

It's wheel horsepower, the dynapack's just print flywheel on the graphs for some reason.

When I dyno'd my car last year I actually made more torque on a Mustang dyno than a Dynapack, but that could be due to correction differences (the Mustang was at 5000 ft., the dynapack at about 400 ft.). I did make more whp on the Dynapack however.
dwx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2005, 07:08 PM   #10
PKSJ4
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 92680
Join Date: Aug 2005
Vehicle:
2004 STI

Default

nice numbers with a rebuilt block
PKSJ4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2005, 11:15 PM   #11
sponaugle
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 4498
Join Date: Feb 2001
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Portland, Oregon
Vehicle:
WRX H6-3.0 Turbo
www.surgelinetuning.com

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PKSJ4
nice numbers with a rebuilt block
Thanks! Those pistons seem to be holding up very well. I've been running the same CPs in my 257 for some time now at 2.0bar and things are still holding together great.

A new dual carbon clutch will be going in asap, as the hyper single is toast. I'm curious what other 500+whp guys are running for clutches? RPS Carbon?

Jeff
sponaugle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2005, 12:29 AM   #12
WRXskeet
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 69435
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: norco, CA
Vehicle:
2005 Aspen STi,rip02
Bugeye mafia 02 :(

Default

what is the avalibility on the 8cm turbine housing for the red?

and whats the price on the red?
WRXskeet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2005, 12:47 AM   #13
AntiochCali
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 30185
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Antioch, California
Vehicle:
2003 320 whp
on a heatbreaker dyno

Default

Any ideas on hw a 7cm Red would compare on your setup to the 8cm Red you are running now? Would spool be much improved?

I'd be willing to give up a little up top if I could spool a little better.


.

Last edited by AntiochCali; 10-04-2005 at 08:27 AM.
AntiochCali is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2005, 01:18 PM   #14
tmarcel
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 7555
Join Date: Jun 2001
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Charlotte NC
Default

Jeff,

I'd like to see some data on the EWG once you guys get it in there. However, not just on the 8cm, but also on the 7cm. Using a large 44mm gate, I wonder just how much of a diff there will be between the two? You might be able to get away using the smaller housing and still be able to come close in top end performance but with a broader torque curve back to the left of the graph.
tmarcel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2005, 01:56 PM   #15
SW00P_G
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 5591
Join Date: Apr 2001
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Westerville, Ohio, USA
Vehicle:
2002 WRX
EJ257 Gt35r

Default

I would bet that the power with a 7cm housing would be almost exactly the same. But you would probably have to run an external gate to keep the boost up on the dyno.
SW00P_G is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2005, 04:32 PM   #16
ratt_finkel
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 46218
Join Date: Oct 2003
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Dallas, Tejas
Vehicle:
06 EVO 9
Silver

Default

I'm curious, is 1st gear even usable on the street?
ratt_finkel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2005, 04:39 PM   #17
BREWPUBEAVER
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 84547
Join Date: Apr 2005
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: PDX S-SE
Vehicle:
06, Lafawnduh
Fender rolling king

Default

^^^lol, some what....

if you really get on it you wont have time to floor it befor you need to shift.
BREWPUBEAVER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2005, 07:08 PM   #18
n2xlr8n
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 18960
Join Date: May 2002
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Bama
Vehicle:
02 WRX MBP
It lives! ; )

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sponaugle
I'm curious what other 500+whp guys are running for clutches? RPS Carbon?

Jeff
Last time I spoke with RPS, they said the carbon setup was still in the works for the Subies....so I went with the 6 puck RPS Max. Phil thinks alot of it, and it's not very expensive.

S.
n2xlr8n is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2005, 07:12 PM   #19
Soon2Bgreat
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 2258
Join Date: Sep 2000
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Irvington, New York, USA
Vehicle:
1999 gc8 ver7 6mt
GT35R 504.7whp;)

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sponaugle
A new dual carbon clutch will be going in asap, as the hyper single is toast. I'm curious what other 500+whp guys are running for clutches? RPS Carbon?

Jeff
I'm running an ACT 6puck with pressure plate. It drives well and holds fine so far. It's held up to 6-8 drag launches and passes and daily driving for about 2 months. Granted i'm on a 2.0l and making only 380wtq.

Louis
Soon2Bgreat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2006, 08:05 PM   #20
CK02WRX
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 27859
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Winder, GA
Vehicle:
2002 EJ257 w/CP's
8cmFP Red, RA 5spd, Hydra

Default

How does the 7cm FP Red compare to the 8cm FP Red. I'm curious for two reasons. First, almost every person that buys one will get a 7cm unless they already have an 8cm FP turbo that can be upgraded. Second, I have currently have two FP turbos (a 8cm 18g and a 7cm red). I plan on having FP put the 8cm on the red which they said would only cost $75. I mainly want to know the differance in top end power. FP said that it could be as much as 10%-15%.
CK02WRX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2006, 08:35 PM   #21
mikaust
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 7468
Join Date: Jun 2001
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Vehicle:
2002

Default

I have used the RPS and ACT 6 puck both have worked great.
mikaust is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2006, 08:39 PM   #22
Caplin 2.5
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 71203
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: SoCaL
Vehicle:
2005 2.5rs
Crystal Gray Metallic

Default

im pretty sure you'll prob break into the 10's with a very good run and that new clutch.... good job!! I wish i had a car like that
Caplin 2.5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2006, 09:25 PM   #23
R0DENT
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 111756
Join Date: Apr 2006
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Vehicle:
04 WRB STi
Few Mods...

Default

Sorry to bring up an old thread but WOW
R0DENT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2006, 09:36 PM   #24
VIR EURORALLY
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 53517
Join Date: Jan 2004
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Flat4VA
Vehicle:
STi Outback STi

Default

I'm preparing for the 8cm FPRed right now. If I can get anywhere within 20% of this I'll be happy.
VIR EURORALLY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2007, 03:10 PM   #25
badger5
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 128188
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Glos, UK
Vehicle:
2001 seat ibiza cupr
yellow

Default

on the new reds, what size is the internal wastegate ported to?
same penny size as the 7cm green i believe? is that right?

do any of you guys suffer boost creep on the greens and reds on internal gate?

i run a green on a seat ibiza cupra (5v turbo motor, which is 1900cc)-its my racecar. interested in information on how you get on with greens and reds.

i have suffered my 2nd wastegate seizure however on the green, so am worried there is something fundermentally wrong. anyone else had this?

thanks
bill
badger5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
FS/FT 2003 Evo FP Red Turbo blazersman Private Vehicle 'For Sale' Classifieds 14 12-03-2009 03:07 PM
I am maxing out MAS with my FP Red, need advice TurboQueef Built Motor Discussion 29 07-30-2008 11:13 PM
400 lb-ft on an 08 STI Stage 2! sponaugle Proven Power Bragging 123 05-17-2008 08:20 PM
New Results with the FP Red! alcrudojr #00 Proven Power Bragging 40 12-26-2007 04:25 PM
485hp Pumpgas/Meth with an FP-Red TopSpeed Proven Power Bragging 25 02-24-2006 10:04 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:05 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.