Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Saturday April 19, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Factory 2.0L Turbo Powertrain

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-25-2005, 01:04 AM   #1
WRXRallyBlue
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 48831
Join Date: Nov 2003
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: Reno
Vehicle:
2002 Protuned Wagon
Bugeyes Forever

Default Aftermarket Intake Manifolds

What intake manifolds do you guys have and how do you like them? I haven't seen many options in this area. Do any major manufacturers have an aftermarket option available?
Any input if appreciated.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
WRXRallyBlue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2005, 06:07 AM   #2
SJwrx
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 14970
Join Date: Feb 2002
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: San Jose, CA
Vehicle:
1997 GF8
multi

Default

nobody really makes an alternative, except for Subaru I bealieve (but those are hard to come by). The intake manifold that was 'on' the '02 WRC car is available but good luck finding it, Ive been seraching for years. Intake tracks are one of our least concerns... its reall the exhaust, turbo and engine managment that you have to do first.

Rich
SJwrx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2005, 06:26 AM   #3
Unabomber
Big Ron
Moderator
 
Member#: 18062
Join Date: Apr 2002
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: I can save you a ton of cash
Vehicle:
on car parts so PM
me b4 j00 buy

Default

Magnus and Tomei make them. When you find out the price though, get some tissues as your nose will be bleeding. Aside from that, a new intake should be FAR down your wish list. Things that would come first would be a built motor and new gears/gearbox.
Unabomber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2005, 08:34 PM   #4
SJwrx
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 14970
Join Date: Feb 2002
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: San Jose, CA
Vehicle:
1997 GF8
multi

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unabomber
Magnus and Tomei make them. When you find out the price though, get some tissues as your nose will be bleeding. Aside from that, a new intake should be FAR down your wish list. Things that would come first would be a built motor and new gears/gearbox.
Do they really, NEVER heard/seen that before. TO the bat-mobile!

Rich
SJwrx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2005, 09:00 PM   #5
vipernj
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 86854
Join Date: May 2005
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Rockland, NY
Vehicle:
2004 fx35 02 Z06

Default

magnus makes a sheet metal manifold for $1200... looks cool and it probably helps but way too much money...
vipernj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2005, 10:43 PM   #6
InfamousDX
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 25413
Join Date: Sep 2002
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: North NJ
Default

Damn $1200... I was look for one but damn... was hoping it'd be at least under a grand.
InfamousDX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2005, 10:53 PM   #7
The_Black_WRX
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 70964
Join Date: Sep 2004
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Bel Air Subaru Club
Vehicle:
99RS 04 wrx
07 wrx limited wagon

Default

have your stock manifold extrude honed and the have it port macthed to your heads

Steve
The_Black_WRX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2005, 10:59 PM   #8
vipernj
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 86854
Join Date: May 2005
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Rockland, NY
Vehicle:
2004 fx35 02 Z06

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Black_WRX
have your stock manifold extrude honed and the have it port macthed to your heads

Steve
definetly smarter and cheaper..altough, if you have the money then go for the magnus... go to their website, they look sick
vipernj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2005, 11:15 PM   #9
The_Black_WRX
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 70964
Join Date: Sep 2004
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Bel Air Subaru Club
Vehicle:
99RS 04 wrx
07 wrx limited wagon

Default

i agree with you on that they look killer
when the are all nice and shiny

one downside to having port matched is you can only use it for thoes heads
steve
The_Black_WRX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2005, 01:43 AM   #10
nate49509
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 22452
Join Date: Aug 2002
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Not Flint.
Vehicle:
'04 WRX
witty comment goes here

Default

Magnus
nate49509 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2005, 09:45 AM   #11
InfamousDX
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 25413
Join Date: Sep 2002
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: North NJ
Default

You guys think they look killer but I have seen a previous gen Magnus that looked like ****. The welds are some of lesser quality ones I've seen (LOOKS wise). Oh and I've also heard of one that had to be spot welded because ti was leaking.. but hopefully their quality control has increased.
InfamousDX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2005, 11:14 AM   #12
Samurai Jack
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 21145
Join Date: Jul 2002
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Not in my own time
Vehicle:
2002 Enemy of Aku

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Black_WRX
i agree with you on that they look killer
when the are all nice and shiny

one downside to having port matched is you can only use it for thoes heads
steve
Do you mean port match the intake or gasket match the intake? If you mean gasket match, the heads won't really matter, as long as you are using the same type heads, ie; stock, because you aren't making the manifold port opening any larger than the gasket itself and the head ports are unchanged.

It looks like he is only talking about the intake and not the heads.

Now, if you start getting into reshaping the head ports, that is something different.
Samurai Jack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2005, 11:41 AM   #13
NattiRex
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 96738
Join Date: Sep 2005
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Nasty Natti
Vehicle:
96 Talon
Blue

Default

He is talking about porting the IM to match the heads, once the IM has been modified the chances of it mathcing up to another set of heads is slim to none... P&P or extrude hone would be my choice... just my .02
NattiRex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2005, 01:07 PM   #14
vipernj
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 86854
Join Date: May 2005
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Rockland, NY
Vehicle:
2004 fx35 02 Z06

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nate49509
Magnus
ewwwww, Blitz Dual Drive BOV, the LEAK MASTER
vipernj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2005, 10:25 PM   #15
The_Black_WRX
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 70964
Join Date: Sep 2004
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Bel Air Subaru Club
Vehicle:
99RS 04 wrx
07 wrx limited wagon

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai Jack
Do you mean port match the intake or gasket match the intake? If you mean gasket match, the heads won't really matter, as long as you are using the same type heads, ie; stock, because you aren't making the manifold port opening any larger than the gasket itself and the head ports are unchanged.

It looks like he is only talking about the intake and not the heads.

Now, if you start getting into reshaping the head ports, that is something different.
the reason you port match is that the stock heads and stock intake manifold dont match up perfectly when you have the port matched they use the gasket as a template and take out the same amount of matieral and that smoothes the air flow transition from the intake manifold to the heads removing any turblance that is created from the intake manifold and the heads not matching

Steve
The_Black_WRX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2005, 10:46 PM   #16
The_Black_WRX
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 70964
Join Date: Sep 2004
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Bel Air Subaru Club
Vehicle:
99RS 04 wrx
07 wrx limited wagon

Default

here is some good info i found on port matching



Air flow makes horsepower. The more cubic feet per minute (cfm) of air that flows through the intake ports and into the combustion chambers, the more horsepower the engine makes.

To realize the utmost performance potential from a given combination of cubic inches and mechanical modifications, you also have to optimize the ports in the cylinder heads and match the ports to the runners in the intake manifold.

There are two ways to port and match cylinder heads: The right way and the wrong way. The right way is to refine the flow characteristics of the head and manifold so as much air as possible enters the cylinders at the engine’s peak power curve. Every engine is different so there’s no "standard" port configuration that is guaranteed to deliver maximum air flow on every application. The port profile that works best will be limited by the physical dimensions of the cylinder head.
Limiting factors include the size, position and angle of the stock ports; the size, configuration and angle of the valves; the thickness of the casting around the ports; and the location of the water jackets, head bolts and other valvetrain components. But other factors must be taken into account, too, such as engine displacement (big block versus small block), the engine’s bore and stroke, the shape of the combustion chambers, compression ratio, the depth and angles on the valve seats, total valve lift, camshaft profile (duration, overlap, etc.), and type of intake manifold and induction system.

Porting can unleash hidden horsepower by increasing air flow - but it requires know-how, a flow bench and special tools to successfully pull it off.

Opening Up
One of the basic goals of head porting is to minimize obstructions so air can flow relatively unimpeded from the throttle plate to the valves. Two things that get in the way are the valve guides and valve guide bosses. Cutting down the length of the valve guide stem and narrowing the valve guide boss can improve air flow past these obstacles. So too can using smaller diameter valve stems or valves that are necked down just above the valve head.

Bolt bosses that protrude into ports also create bumps in the ports that disrupt air flow. Grinding these flush with the surrounding port surface can also smooth out the route, provided you don’t run out of metal and grind all the way through the boss or dangerously weaken the head.

Transition areas in the port also need to be reworked so air will flow more easily around corners with a sharp radius and into the seat throat just above the valves. Sharp edges and rough castings also need to be smoothed and blended to eliminate turbulence and improve air flow.

The cross-sectional area of most intake ports becomes gradually smaller as the air moves toward the valve. This causes the air to accelerate as it approaches the valve, and actually helps ram more air past the valve into the cylinder when the valve opens. Any sudden changes in the cross-section of the port can disrupt this effect and restrict air flow. That’s why port modifications that are made in the area just above the valve must not upset the normal increase in air velocity. The same goes for the exhaust side, too, except here the cross-section of the ports gets larger as the exhaust gases flow away from the valves. Again, the secret to maximizing flow is to have a smooth transition and as few obstructions as possible.

The joint where the intake manifold and cylinder head meet also is a critical area. If the runners in the intake manifold are not perfectly aligned with the ports in the head, sharp edges can interrupt normal air flow and impair performance. Matching up the ports so there’s a smooth transition from manifold to head will ensure maximum air flow. The same goes for exhaust ports. The head ports must be aligned with the header openings so the exhaust gases can pass freely out of the engine without encountering any sharp edges or obstacles.

Bigger is not always better. Grind away too much metal and you may end up ruining the casting if you cut into a water jacket. But even if you don’t grind all the way through, removing metal in the wrong places can actually end up hurting air flow more than it helps. Here’s why: The secret to maximizing air flow and engine performance is maximizing volumetric efficiency and air flow velocity.

Big ports with lots of volume will obviously flow more air than a smaller port with less volume - but only at higher rpm. A lot of people don’t know that. At lower rpm and mid-range, a smaller port actually flows more efficiently and delivers better torque and performance because the air moves through the port at higher speed. This helps push more air and fuel into the cylinder every time the valve opens. At higher rpm, the momentum of the air helps ram in more air, so a larger port can flow more air when the engine needs it.

The ultimate port would actually be one with a variable cross-section that’s small at low rpm for high air flow velocity and gradually opens up for more air flow as engine speed increases. That’s sort of the idea behind staged split-plenum intake manifolds that open up and feed more air into the engine at higher rpm.

The bottom line is this: To realize the most power and performance out of an engine, air flow has to match the breathing requirements of the engine within the engine’s rpm range where it is designed to make the most power.

Therefore, when choosing either an OEM cylinder head or an aftermarket head, you should try to match the port size with the engine’s power curve and rpm range. Don’t waste your money bolting a set of high-flow heads onto an engine that can never realize the head’s full performance potential because of limitations in gearing, the valvetrain, cam specifications or carburetion. Likewise, if you’re going all out, then start with the highest flowing heads you can find and try to add even more cfm potential by massaging the ports and manifold.

As a rule, the roof of an intake or exhaust port has much more influence on air flow than the floor or sides of the port. The greatest gains in air flow can often be realized by removing metal from the top of the port only and leaving the sides and floor relatively untouched. This can have the same effect as using a different head casting or an aftermarket head that has the ports relocated slightly higher to give a straighter shot at the valves.
Additional gains in air flow can often be found by carefully smoothing and blending the short-side radius in the port floor where the port bends toward the valve seat. This helps air round the corner more easily for improved air flow.

In the area where the intake manifold and head are bolted together, using a template to scribe alignment marks on the head and manifold can serve as a guide for hand grinding and smoothing this area.

Though the greatest gains in horsepower will be realized only when heads are flow tested and professionally ported, do-it-yourselfers who are racing on a limited budget can still do some basic porting themselves to improve air flow and increase the performance potential of their engines.
The technical staff at Standard Abrasives (www.sa-motorsports.com) have an online DIY Cylinder Head Porting Guide complete with photos that provides detailed step-by-step instructions for head porting and manifold matching.

All you need are a basic porting kit (which includes various grinding stones and abrasive rolls), some common tools and some free time.

A basic DIY port job should focus on reducing restrictions caused by steps that may obstruct intake air flow as it transitions from the intake manifold to a smaller intake port entry in the head. These restrictions could be casting bumps, ridges or other marks, such as those on port floors or roofs, sharp edges, such as those around the valve guide bosses at the top of the valve pockets, and the area where the intake port floor curves down to the valve seat.
The job itself consists of six steps:

1. Enlarging and matching the intake port entrances;

2. Smoothing the intake short-side radii, valve guides and valve pockets;

3. Smoothing the exhaust short-side radii, valve guides and bowls;

4. Polishing the exhaust ports and bowls;

5. Polishing the combustion chambers (to reduce carbon buildup); and

6. Matching the intake manifold ports to the head.

Some porting suggestions offered by Standard Abrasives include:

• Use an air-powered die grinder with a maximum speed of 18,000 to 20,000 rpm and a 1/4" collet. An electric die grinder is OK, but you have to be careful to limit the grinder’s speed.

• Wear proper eye protection. Grinding throws off a lot of chips, and you don’t want any debris to end up in your eyes. Good lighting is also essential so you can see what you’re doing, and gloves are recommended to protect your hands.

• To keep grinding stones from clogging when working on aluminum heads, lubricate the stones with WD-40.

• To figure out how much metal needs to be removed to match up the ports, apply machinists bluing to the gasket template and bolt the template to the head and manifold. Then scribe the outline of the port opening on both the head and manifold. Remove all metal inside the scribed lines.

• When you start grinding, use a rotary round grinding stone for maximum metal removal. As you approach the scribe marks you’ve made, blend or feather the larger port into the remaining port by progressively removing less material as you move farther down into the port. In most cases, you want to grind about 1" to 1.5" into the port.

• Once the port has been ground to size, switch to a smaller diameter conical rotary stone to profile the small radii at the corners of each port.

• To finish the port, use the tapered rolls of abrasive, starting with 40 grit, then 80 grit.

• The point where the intake port floor curves down to the valve seat is known as the "short-side radius." From an air flow standpoint, this area is the most critical in any port. Smooth that spot and you can usually realize a significant increase in flow through the port. On most production heads, the short-side radius will be sharp-edged and rough. The goal here is to soften those sharp edges and smooth out the roughness.

• Bowl work includes blending the area under the valve seat. The valve throat, which is the smallest diameter in the valve pocket just above the valve seat, should be about 85% of the valve diameter. If the throat is smaller than that, use a combination of the rotary stone and cartridge rolls to open it up to the 85% figure.

• Exhaust ports flow best with a polished finish. A smooth finish also helps reduce the buildup of carbon deposits. Use a 120-grit or finer flap wheel after using the 40-grit and 80-grit abrasives, then polish with the medium Cross Buff and finally the fine grade Cross Buff.

• In most cases, you should not attempt to match the exhaust ports in the head with the ports in the exhaust manifold or headers. Many stock exhaust manifolds, and virtually all tube headers, have larger port sizes than the heads. You want that "step" from the port to the larger header tube or exhaust manifold because, as pressure pulses flow back and forth in the exhaust system, it acts as a "reversion dam" by resisting back flow of exhaust gases into the port.

Hope this info helps all of those not familier with port matching

Steve


Note:all information taken from
The Science of Horsepower: Porting & Matching Heads & Manifolds, Larry Carley, Underhood Service, November 2001
The_Black_WRX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2005, 11:05 PM   #17
D-Speed 2.5
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 29516
Join Date: Nov 2002
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Denver
Vehicle:
2005 WRX Wagon
Former GC O.G.

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nate49509
Magnus
This is such a sick setup. My buddy has that same rotated HKS kit but with a FMIC. That manifold is awesome.
D-Speed 2.5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2005, 11:05 PM   #18
WRXRallyBlue
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 48831
Join Date: Nov 2003
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: Reno
Vehicle:
2002 Protuned Wagon
Bugeyes Forever

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Black_WRX
here is some good info i found on port matching

Air flow makes horsepower. The more cubic feet per minute (cfm) of air that flows through the intake ports and into the combustion chambers, the more horsepower the engine makes.

Hope this info helps all of those not familier with port matching

Steve

Note:all information taken from
The Science of Horsepower: Porting & Matching Heads & Manifolds, Larry Carley, Underhood Service, November 2001
Lots of useful info, thanks.
WRXRallyBlue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2005, 11:06 PM   #19
WRXRallyBlue
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 48831
Join Date: Nov 2003
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: Reno
Vehicle:
2002 Protuned Wagon
Bugeyes Forever

Default

Does anyone know the difference between the manifold on a WRX versus an STi? Or do they just paint them red?
WRXRallyBlue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2005, 05:26 AM   #20
senortighto
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 51873
Join Date: Jan 2004
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: the oc
Vehicle:
2006 purty blue STi
in my driveway

Default

yup, just red
senortighto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2005, 12:23 PM   #21
StealthWRX
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 50175
Join Date: Dec 2003
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: EMOTION/Andrewtech/TurboXS
Vehicle:
RHD Bugeye & '11LGT
Brainchild Customs

Default

the tomei manifold is so hot, does anyone knwo if you can actually buy it? and where?
StealthWRX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2005, 12:45 PM   #22
dentsport
Former Vendor
 
Member#: 71201
Join Date: Sep 2004
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Norwood, MA/www.dentsport.com
Vehicle:
Shop Sport Service
781-551-3399

Default

This is the intake manifold that we came up with on the shop WRX. Here is a picture and a brief description to follow. Please feel free to enquire with any questions you may have.



The intake manifold started as a method to move the throttle body to the front of the car from the back. Now, with the forward facing style of the new manifold and the relocated alternator we can shorten the intake path to only about 3 feet of length from the the usual 6 or so that a Subaru with a front mount intercooler usually makes due with. The manifold is 6061alu with spun air horns sourced from Australia. We sell these horns seperately if you're looking for something similar. The throttle body flange is an in house item, 6061alu CNC machined to accept the Infinity Q45 TB. The new throttle body is 3.25 ID and runs a typical 5v TPS. The plenum volume is over 4 liters on our manifold.

Louis

Last edited by dentsport; 09-29-2005 at 01:05 PM.
dentsport is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2005, 01:20 PM   #23
StealthWRX
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 50175
Join Date: Dec 2003
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: EMOTION/Andrewtech/TurboXS
Vehicle:
RHD Bugeye & '11LGT
Brainchild Customs

Default

make me one
StealthWRX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2005, 06:32 PM   #24
WRXRallyBlue
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 48831
Join Date: Nov 2003
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: Reno
Vehicle:
2002 Protuned Wagon
Bugeyes Forever

Default

dentsport, that is a pretty sweet setup. Is that something you could mass produce?
WRXRallyBlue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2005, 06:37 PM   #25
NattiRex
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 96738
Join Date: Sep 2005
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Nasty Natti
Vehicle:
96 Talon
Blue

Default

Sure is pretty! Sand that down and powdercoat it!
NattiRex is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
aftermarket intake manifold tonzo Built Motor Discussion 899 01-26-2014 06:08 PM
WTB: Polished or Aftermarket intake manifold midnightsti Private 'Wanted' Classifieds 4 06-13-2006 06:39 PM
Aftermarket intake manifold west005 Factory 2.5L Turbo Powertrain 18 05-30-2006 09:03 PM
New/Aftermarket Intake manifold Twelvz Factory 2.0L Turbo Powertrain 29 03-11-2005 12:32 PM
New Aftermarket Intake Manifold DonkeyPunch Factory 2.0L Turbo Powertrain 14 01-15-2005 06:15 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:40 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.