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Old 09-25-2005, 04:00 PM   #1
SinisterMinister
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Default The de-musclification of muscle cars over the years

Muscle Car Oddities. I've found pictures of what some of the greatest muscle cars from the 60's were reduced to in the 70's.

1974 Buick GS
http://www.musclecarclub.com/musclec...k-gs-1974a.jpg

http://www.musclecarclub.com/musclec...k-gs-1974b.jpg

1973 Chevrolet Chevelle SS
http://www.musclecarclub.com/musclec...elle-1973a.jpg

1974 Chevrolet Monte Carlo
http://www.musclecarclub.com/musclec...arlo-1974b.jpg

1974 Dodge Charger
http://www.musclecarclub.com/musclec...rger-1974a.jpg

1976 Dodge Charger
http://www.moparautos.com/charger75-76.htm

1978 Dodge Charger
http://www.moparautos.com/charger77-78.htm

1978-79 Dodge Magnum: Replaced the Dodge Charger
http://www.moparautos.com/magnum78-79.htm

1976 Dodge Dart
http://www.musclecarclub.com/musclec...dart-1976a.jpg

1976 Dodge Aspen: Along with the Plymouth Volare, it replaced the Plymouth Duster, and the Dodge Dart. The famed R/T package was reduced to an appearance package on the Aspen.
http://www.moparautos.com/aspen%2076-77.htm

1976 Plymouth Road Runner: Reduced to an option package on the Plymouth Volare
http://www.moparautos.com/volare76-77.htm

1979 Plymouth Volare Road Runner
http://www.moparautos.com/volare76-77.htm

1973 Ford Torino
http://www.musclecarclub.com/musclec...rino-1973a.jpg

1974 Ford Mustang
http://www.musclecarclub.com/musclec...tang-1974a.jpg

1976 Ford Mustang Cobra II
http://www.musclecarclub.com/musclec...tang-1976a.jpg

1976 Ford Thunderbird
http://www.musclecarclub.com/musclec...bird-1976b.jpg

1973 Mercury Cougar
http://www.musclecarclub.com/musclec...ugar-1973a.jpg

1973 Oldsmobile 442
http://www.musclecarclub.com/musclec...-442-1973a.jpg

1973 Pontiac GTO
http://www.musclecarclub.com/musclec...-gto-1973a.jpg

1974 Pontiac GTO: Reduced to an option package on the Ventura
http://www.musclecarclub.com/musclec...-gto-1974a.jpg

1988 Chevrolet Nova
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member...002_2_full.jpg
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Old 09-25-2005, 04:02 PM   #2
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i used to have a 87 chevy nova.
let me tell you.
that was some muscle man...wow. 10 hp at the wheels yo!
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Old 09-25-2005, 04:03 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SinisterMinister
Muscle Car Oddities. I've found pictures of what some of the greatest muscle cars from the 60's were reduced to in the 70's.

Welcome to American History 101. Please take a seat anywhere.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_energy_crisis


Edit: UBB didn't like the first url.
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Old 09-25-2005, 04:03 PM   #4
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At least they gave the V8 back to the Impala.
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Old 09-25-2005, 04:04 PM   #5
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Nss45
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Old 09-25-2005, 04:10 PM   #6
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insurance rates and the catalytic converters killed muscle cars in the early 70s
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Old 09-25-2005, 04:10 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith
i used to have a 87 chevy nova.
let me tell you.
that was some muscle man...wow. 10 hp at the wheels yo!
No way... me too, except I wasn't messican!
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Old 09-25-2005, 04:16 PM   #8
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What are you talking about? the energy crisis was only a temporary hindrance. People love speed and power, and will always prefer a car with both.

Now every 2.5RS and Accord can post 0-60 and 1/4 mile times that would have been respectably fast back in the 60's, if not very fast, and MB and BMW are locked in a power struggle that eclipses the 60's cars and boosts HP and speed throughout the auto industry by default. And most cars nowdays will outhandle a 60's muscle car.
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Old 09-25-2005, 04:20 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poison
What are you talking about? the energy crisis was only a temporary hindrance.
Oh, no doubt it was a temporary hindrance. However, it was a temporary hindrance that had a huge ripple effect on the automotive industry.
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Old 09-25-2005, 04:21 PM   #10
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i dont mind the cobra II, and i own a 79 trans am that i love.
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Old 09-25-2005, 05:01 PM   #11
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Don't forget what they did to the Mustang in the early 80s...
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Old 09-25-2005, 05:06 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poison
What are you talking about? the energy crisis was only a temporary hindrance. People love speed and power, and will always prefer a car with both.

Now every 2.5RS and Accord can post 0-60 and 1/4 mile times that would have been respectably fast back in the 60's, if not very fast, and MB and BMW are locked in a power struggle that eclipses the 60's cars and boosts HP and speed throughout the auto industry by default. And most cars nowdays will outhandle a 60's muscle car.
Agreed. People want power and speed, but now there are more advanced (efficient) ways of getting it. 70's 'Muscle' cars (stereotypically heavy, metal, huge engines) are replaced by the 'Muscle' cars of today (carbon fiber, forced induction, lightweight, aerodynamic, better gas efficiency) for good reason.
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Old 09-25-2005, 05:23 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SinisterMinister
The de-musclification of muscle cars over the years
Oh please!

I can't believe even the slowest-witted of OTters doesn't know about the "Arab Oil Crisis" of 1973. That single event forever changed the automobile scene in the United States. The repurcussions of that single event effected our country and its economy more than the events of 9/11. We are talking about Americans killing Americans while waiting in 4-hour gas lines. It happened.

After that event you could pick up a great pre-crisis muscle car for pennies. Dealers could not GIVE new ones away. American manufacturers were in a cold panic to deliver product that Americans would buy. Marketing and manufacturing were at their wits' ends trying to figure out how to push what they could actually make. The old-school American economy cars had straight-sixes that would be considered full-on gas-guzzlers by today's standards. And they were designed and built to be pieces of **** because the mfgs wanted to steer buyers to their more profitable upscale lines. Overnight, Cadillac buyers wanted better fuel economy without sacrificing luxury and young people still wanted a cool car but not a gas guzzler.

Thus marks the beginning of the rock-bottom low point of American automobiles. It wasn't until the '90s before the US auto industry started to slowly claw their way back into the domestic market. It was during that dark era when UAWs were steadfastly driving their k-cars to work, wearing an expression of stubborn surrender. The cars were so poorly designed and built that mercifully hardly any made it into the new millenium.
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Old 09-25-2005, 05:26 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by somebody else
Oh please!

I can't believe even the slowest-witted of OTters doesn't know about the "Arab Oil Crisis" of 1973. That single event forever changed the automobile scene in the United States. The repurcussions of that single event effected our country and its economy more than the events of 9/11. We are talking about Americans killing Americans while waiting in 4-hour gas lines. It happened.

After that event you could pick up a great pre-crisis muscle car for pennies. Dealers could not GIVE new ones away. American manufacturers were in a cold panic to deliver product that Americans would buy. Marketing and manufacturing were at their wits' ends trying to figure out how to push what they could actually make. The old-school American economy cars had straight-sixes that would be considered full-on gas-guzzlers by today's standards. And they were designed and built to be pieces of **** because the mfgs wanted to steer buyers to their more profitable upscale lines. Overnight, Cadillac buyers wanted better fuel economy without sacrificing luxury and young people still wanted a cool car but not a gas guzzler.

Thus marks the beginning of the rock-bottom low point of American automobiles. It wasn't until the '90s before the US auto industry started to slowly claw their way back into the domestic market. It was during that dark era when UAWs were steadfastly driving their k-cars to work, wearing an expression of stubborn surrender. The cars were so poorly designed and built that mercifully hardly any made it into the new millenium.
Are you starting to notice a parallel between SUVs and Muscle Cars?
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Old 09-25-2005, 05:27 PM   #15
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Right now the 60s to 1972 muscle cars seem to be very collectible. But as the 1973 to 1986 cars age, there are far fewer collectibles in this group. It was a long dry spell before the industry learned to get better MPG and speed.
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Old 09-25-2005, 05:30 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by somebody else
Oh please!

I can't believe even the slowest-witted of OTters doesn't know about the "Arab Oil Crisis" of 1973. That single event forever changed the automobile scene in the United States. The repurcussions of that single event effected our country and its economy more than the events of 9/11. We are talking about Americans killing Americans while waiting in 4-hour gas lines. It happened.

After that event you could pick up a great pre-crisis muscle car for pennies. Dealers could not GIVE new ones away. American manufacturers were in a cold panic to deliver product that Americans would buy. Marketing and manufacturing were at their wits' ends trying to figure out how to push what they could actually make. The old-school American economy cars had straight-sixes that would be considered full-on gas-guzzlers by today's standards. And they were designed and built to be pieces of **** because the mfgs wanted to steer buyers to their more profitable upscale lines. Overnight, Cadillac buyers wanted better fuel economy without sacrificing luxury and young people still wanted a cool car but not a gas guzzler.

Thus marks the beginning of the rock-bottom low point of American automobiles. It wasn't until the '90s before the US auto industry started to slowly claw their way back into the domestic market. It was during that dark era when UAWs were steadfastly driving their k-cars to work, wearing an expression of stubborn surrender. The cars were so poorly designed and built that mercifully hardly any made it into the new millenium.
*ahem*

Post #3, smartypants.
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Old 09-25-2005, 05:40 PM   #17
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OH PLEASE I know about the oil crisis, I was just pointing out the styling changes of the cars.
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Old 09-25-2005, 05:41 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poison
What are you talking about? the energy crisis was only a temporary hindrance.

Now every 2.5RS and Accord can post 0-60 and 1/4 mile times that would have been respectably fast back in the 60's
Not only was it a temporary hindrance, but the '73 crisis was the catalyst for huge leaps in engine technology.

And today's econo cars' performance would be VERY respectable back then, especially when they got to the first curve! But even back then it wasn't very hard to beat the muscle cars. A modded VW could take a stock GTO for half the price. If you had an STi or an Evo back then, people would be collapsing dead on the street from shock! I had a 1275s Mini and I had a blast messing with the muscle-boys heads! Later I had a bored and stroked VW with twin ID42 Webers that would blow away most muscle cars off the line. I knew people with advanced cams and heads running ID48s that could pull wheelies. (You had to re-engineer the way the engine and transaxle were tied to the car if you wanted to keep them together.)

Now-a-days sleeper econoboxes are common. Back in the '60s and early '70s it was all about shock value!
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Old 09-25-2005, 05:43 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_wheel
*ahem*

Post #3, smartypants.
Never got that far before the volatile combination of flame and caffeine mixed together!
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Old 09-25-2005, 05:49 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 05WRXwagon
Right now the 60s to 1972 muscle cars seem to be very collectible.
Look who are buying them. 60-70-year-olds. The same people that are building the retro customs. Lost youth, midlife crisis, whatever you want to call it. If I were monied and interested, I'd buy one for fun, but not for investment except for short-term (less than 4 years) investment. Talk about bubbles.
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Old 09-25-2005, 10:02 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by somebody else
Look who are buying them. 60-70-year-olds. The same people that are building the retro customs. Lost youth, midlife crisis, whatever you want to call it. If I were monied and interested, I'd buy one for fun, but not for investment except for short-term (less than 4 years) investment. Talk about bubbles.
I got to agree. As these people die off, so will the demand for the cars. Look at the 40s & 50s cars. Nobody cares about these. Performance of the 90s and 00s have passed over the muscle cars of the 60s. These are the cars the next generation will remember.
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Old 09-25-2005, 10:28 PM   #22
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I dream about Carrera GTs
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Old 09-25-2005, 10:43 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poison
What are you talking about? the energy crisis was only a temporary hindrance.
Guess what, dude, it's back! Imho, we are living in an automotive age at this very moment which is similar to the days of the early 70's.

For the record, my '76 Valiant looked nothing like the link above. She was baby blue with a white vinyl top. The tires were 185/70 R15's, iirc. Drum brakes all around, she was a brute of a machine with plenty of room in teh back seat for making out! She was purchased from the original owners, a retired couple in 1992 with 68,000 miles on it and garaged it's whole life. I was the first person to look at the car and got a helluva deal on college transporation - $800. The 2.0 in my WRX has more power than Victor's 318 ever dreamed of having, but she had plenty of torque to spin those pinner back tires. Braking required planning, and it didn't handle corners so much, rather, it negotiated them. I got very used to having people cut in front of me during rush hour traffic, as I always kept a large space cushion in front of me. Oddly, I miss that silly car.
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Old 09-25-2005, 10:47 PM   #24
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There were Muscle Cars in the 60's that would hand most current production sports cars their asses.

L88 Corvette http://www.corvettelegends.com/l88.htm
- Supposedly had around 600hp, and they did in fact run 10s from the factory on slicks.

Similar with the ZL-1 Camaro... that thing took no prisoners, and would rape a carerra gt on the 1/4
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Old 09-25-2005, 10:51 PM   #25
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Listen you guys are correct on most fronts, but I would still say the MAIN reason muscle cars (and ALL cars) sucked ass in the 70's was not the oil crisis, but in how out of touch the US car makers had gotten with the market. They had gotten complacent, lazy and were churning out the same old, same old.

They bitched and cried over the new safety standards that were kicking in at the time instead of spending money on R&D and actually getting the job done.

They did the exact same with new environmental laws - spent millions on lobbying for easier restrictions, instead of spending that money on better engineering.

And all the while, these small, high quality and fuel efficient cars from Japan were creeping into the market and people were gobbling them up.
Instead of changing their tune, the US car makers kept on keepin' on their old antiquated ways.

I don't see that big of a difference really with what is happening now in the car business. Same BS line from the US car makers that cars can't be made more efficient and always complaining about this and that, yet Honda just introduced their new hybrid Civic that gets 50 MPG.
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