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Old 09-26-2005, 08:38 PM   #1
Davenow
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Default Tiny det issue. Thoughts?

Ok so I am spraying alch/water from 6ishPSI up.
STI
TXS TMIC
stealthback
VF39 untouched
Alcohol injection kit, spraying mix of 50% water 50% denatured alch from abotu 6PSI up.

So I am getting a TINY bit of det showing up in the upper end. There are a few things to keep in mind when reading this log

1. I have the knock threshold turned up. It is more sensative to det than a standard UTEC. 1 counts are engine noise at this point, or VERY light det that the UTEC never would have detected before. As such I have it set to only respond to a knock count of 2 or higher.
2. I have the MAP reading in ABSOLUTE, the gauge reads 1.3bar, which is about 18.7PSI.


The det event is towards the bottom of this pull
Code:
 704 -12.0 1.1 1 00	00 +18.3	1.2 ECU. +0.0 ECU. 1.1 14.11
693 -12.0 1.0 0 00	00 +18.2	1.2 ECU. +0.0 ECU. 1.1 14.11
2142 -0.4 2.5 97 10	00 +28.4 12.5 ECU. +0.0 375.00 2.5 16.19
2161 +0.2 2.6 98 10	00 +27.9 12.7 ECU. +0.0 375.00 2.7 16.19
2161 +0.8 2.6 97 10	00 +27.4 13.7 ECU. +0.0 375.00 2.6 15.37
2216 +1.5 2.6 98 20	00 +27.0 14.3 +22.6 +1.1 375.00 2.6 14.33
2256 +2.1 2.7 98 20	00 +26.3 15.0 +22.0 +0.6 375.00 2.7 13.81
2262 +2.5 2.6 97 20	00 +25.2 15.1 +21.6 +1.0 375.00 2.7 13.62
2300 +2.9 2.7 97 20	00 +24.6 15.5 +21.6 +0.9 375.00 2.8 13.36
2345 +3.3 2.8 97 20	00 +22.5 16.8 +21.4 +0.9 375.00 2.8 13.20
2364 +3.7 2.8 98 30	00 +22.2 16.9 +20.2 +2.9 375.00 2.9 12.93
2352 +4.3 2.8 97 30	00 +19.4 19.9 +19.8 +2.9 375.00 3.0 12.67
2399 +4.7 2.8 97 30	00 +18.4 18.8 +19.8 +2.9 375.00 3.0 12.25
2489 +5.3 2.9 98 30	00 +18.0 20.9 +19.2 +2.9 375.00 3.0 11.76
2519 +5.7 3.0 98 40	00 +16.7 23.5 +18.0 +1.0 375.00 3.1 11.73
2536 +6.6 3.0 97 40	00 +16.7 22.6 +17.8 +1.8 375.00 3.1 11.73
2581 +7.4 3.0 98 40	00 +15.6 24.5 +17.5 +1.4 375.00 3.2 11.56
2658 +8.2 3.1 97 50	00 +15.1 26.2 +18.0 -0.3 375.00 3.1 11.43
2662 +9.2 3.2 97 50	00 +15.6 25.1 +17.6 -0.7 375.00 3.2 11.33
2759 +10.0 3.3 98 50	00 +15.5 27.2 +17.4 -0.5 375.00 3.3 11.45
2784 +10.8 3.3 98 60	00 +14.3 27.9 +17.0 -0.9 400.00 3.1 11.52
2808 +11.9 3.5 98 60	00 +14.1 32.6 +17.0 -1.9 400.00 3.4 11.33
2873 +13.1 3.4 96 70	00 +13.3 33.7 +17.0 -2.5 400.00 3.4 11.14
2939 +14.3 3.5 97 80	00 +12.9 36.0 +17.0 -2.3 400.00 3.5 11.06
2986 +15.3 3.5 98 80	00 +13.7 38.0 +17.0 -2.1 400.00 3.4 11.08
3030 +15.9 3.6 98 80	00 +13.4 37.4 +17.0 -2.3 400.00 3.4 11.14
3033 +16.4 3.6 97 80	00 +13.2 40.7 +17.0 -2.7 400.00 3.6 11.12
3192 +16.6 3.6 96 80	00 +13.4 43.6 +17.0 -2.7 400.00 3.5 11.12
3205 +16.8 3.7 97 80	00 +13.8 42.8 +17.0 -3.2 400.00 3.6 11.20
3290 +17.4 3.7 97 80	00 +14.1 43.7 +17.1 -3.4 400.00 3.5 11.27
3306 +17.0 3.8 98 80	00 +14.8 43.0 +17.2 -3.6 400.00 3.5 11.43
3373 +17.0 3.8 97 80	00 +15.0 45.8 +17.5 -4.0 400.00 3.5 11.52
3415 +17.0 3.6 96 80	00 +15.4 41.9 +18.1 -5.2 400.00 3.7 11.56
3475 +16.8 3.7 97 80	00 +16.4 46.8 +18.0 -4.4 400.00 3.6 11.68
3599 +17.0 3.9 98 80	00 +15.3 48.4 +18.3 -4.6 400.00 3.6 11.84
3603 +17.0 3.9 97 80	00 +15.2 50.0 +18.5 -4.8 400.00 3.5 11.84
3703 +16.8 4.0 97 80	00 +15.7 48.8 +18.7 -4.9 400.00 3.7 11.77
3728 +17.0 3.9 96 80	00 +15.8 51.3 +18.8 -5.3 400.00 3.7 11.89
3762 +17.2 4.0 97 80	00 +16.4 50.4 +19.3 -5.3 400.00 3.7 11.77
3809 +17.0 3.9 97 80	00 +16.6 53.1 +19.5 -5.4 400.00 3.7 11.77
3954 +17.4 4.0 97 80	00 +16.5 52.8 +19.5 -5.4 400.00 3.7 11.89
3940 +17.6 4.0 97 90	00 +17.2 53.2 +18.7 -4.5 400.00 3.8 11.92
3982 +17.4 3.9 96 80	00 +17.0 52.8 +20.0 -5.3 400.00 3.7 11.92
4065 +17.8 4.0 97 80	00 +17.1 54.6 +20.0 -5.3 400.00 3.8 11.81
4198 +17.0 4.0 97 80	00 +17.4 55.1 +20.0 -5.1 400.00 3.9 11.77
4177 +17.2 4.0 97 80	00 +17.4 57.5 +20.0 -5.0 400.00 3.7 11.81
4251 +17.0 4.0 97 80	00 +17.6 57.2 +20.0 -4.8 400.00 3.9 11.84
4317 +16.6 4.1 96 80	00 +17.6 57.5 +20.0 -4.9 400.00 3.8 11.80
4385 +17.0 4.1 97 80	00 +17.3 59.8 +20.4 -4.8 400.00 3.9 11.68
4420 +16.8 4.1 97 80	00 +17.6 56.4 +20.6 -4.7 400.00 3.9 11.65
4522 +17.2 4.1 97 80	00 +18.4 58.3 +20.8 -4.9 400.00 3.9 11.68
4516 +17.2 4.1 97 80	00 +19.3 61.5 +21.0 -5.0 400.00 3.9 11.77
4604 +17.0 4.1 96 80	00 +19.6 65.0 +21.3 -5.5 400.00 4.0 11.71
4629 +17.2 4.2 97 80	00 +20.5 63.7 +21.6 -6.0 400.00 3.9 11.62
4701 +16.8 4.2 97 80	00 +21.5 63.1 +21.9 -6.6 400.00 4.0 11.68
4701 +17.0 4.2 96 80	00 +22.1 63.5 +22.0 -6.8 400.00 3.9 11.81
4852 +17.2 4.2 97 80	00 +22.7 69.0 +24.1 -6.8 400.00 3.9 11.80
4873 +17.4 4.2 97 90	00 +22.2 69.8 +23.1 -5.9 400.00 4.0 11.68
4930 +17.4 4.2 97 90	00 +22.3 68.0 +23.8 -5.9 400.00 4.0 11.53
5020 +17.4 4.3 97 80	00 +22.8 67.2 +24.8 -6.7 400.00 4.0 11.56
5027 +17.6 4.2 95 80	00 +22.9 66.5 +25.5 -6.6 400.00 3.9 11.68
4982 +16.8 4.2 97 80	00 +21.7 69.2 +25.5 -6.7 400.00 4.0 11.73
5020 +16.8 4.3 97 80	00 +21.5 70.9 +25.5 -6.6 400.00 4.0 11.71
5224 +17.2 4.2 97 80	00 +21.7 70.1 +25.5 -6.3 400.00 4.0 11.67
5232 +16.6 4.3 97 80	00 +21.4 72.9 +25.8 -6.3 435.00 4.0 11.65
5324 +16.4 4.3 95 80	00 +20.7 68.6 +25.7 -6.3 400.00 4.0 11.61
5307 +16.1 4.4 97 70	00 +20.3 75.8 +25.5 -5.8 435.00 4.1 11.52
5437 +15.3 4.3 96 70	00 +20.5 70.9 +25.7 -5.8 435.00 4.1 11.52
5482 +15.5 4.4 97 80	00 +21.3 71.2 +26.2 -6.7 445.00 4.1 11.58
5420 +15.7 4.4 97 80	00 +21.7 73.8 +26.0 -6.4 445.00 4.1 11.68
5491 +15.7 4.4 97 80	00 +21.7 71.1 +26.5 -6.4 445.00 4.0 11.73
5509 +15.9 4.4 97 70	00 +21.6 69.5 +26.0 -6.1 445.00 4.1 11.76
5737 +15.1 4.4 95 70	00 +21.4 70.6 +26.0 -6.0 445.00 4.1 11.73
5767 +14.9 4.4 97 70	00 +21.7 75.3 +26.0 -6.1 445.00 4.1 11.62
5621 +14.9 4.4 97 70	00 +21.6 75.4 +26.0 -6.2 445.00 4.1 11.62
5707 +14.7 4.3 95 70	00 +22.0 75.9 +26.0 -6.2 445.00 4.1 11.65
5747 +14.7 4.4 97 70	00 +22.4 73.5 +26.0 -6.3 445.00 4.1 11.65
5941 +14.9 4.3 97 70	01 +22.8 76.6 +26.1 -6.1 475.00 4.2 11.67
5837 +15.1 4.4 97 80	00 +23.9 78.0 +26.8 -6.6 475.00 4.1 11.62
5787 +14.5 4.4 97 70	00 +23.7 77.6 +26.1 -6.1 475.00 4.1 11.61
5827 +14.3 4.4 97 60	03 +24.0 74.5 +14.4 -6.3 475.00 4.0 11.53
6016 +14.1 4.4 97 70	00 +23.7 77.6 +14.6 -5.6 475.00 4.1 11.56
5973 +13.3 4.3 95 70	00 +23.4 76.9 +15.0 -5.8 475.00 4.1 11.62
6006 +11.7 2.5 0 00	00 +23.1	9.3 ECU. +0.0 ECU. 1.9 11.65
5688 +5.5 1.4 0 00	00 +23.1	6.0 ECU. +0.0 ECU. 1.6 12.78
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Old 09-26-2005, 10:15 PM   #2
Timdog1650
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I would try a hair less timing right in the 50-70 load columns at that RPM, maybe subtract like .3 or .5 from your map in that region. It's weird how you shift out of the higher load site for that brief second down to 60% even though you stay on the gas straight through...probably just because it was in a lower gear I assume? Anyway, yeah I'd try a **** hair less timing....
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Old 09-26-2005, 10:22 PM   #3
Jon [in CT]
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Oh good. More endless columns of unlabelled "data."
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Old 09-26-2005, 10:37 PM   #4
drees
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If you turn down the boost 1psi up top, does the knock go away?
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Old 09-27-2005, 10:19 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon [in CT]
Oh good. More endless columns of unlabelled "data."
the only thing you post in these threads is "unlabeled data". THEN, after they post the column headers, you never post in them again. here is a thought- dont click on UTEC threads...and if you do happen to click on them, dont post this again...because even if we appease you and put the column headers on there, youre not going to offer up any useful insight.
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Old 09-27-2005, 10:21 AM   #6
happasaiyan
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Code:
5787 +14.5 4.4 97 70	00 +23.7 77.6 +26.1 -6.1 475.00 4.1 11.61
5827 +14.3 4.4 97 60	03 +24.0 74.5 +14.4 -6.3 475.00 4.0 11.53
can you post your ignition advance map? ...so we know what timing was meant to be run in the 5750 x 60 cell...
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Old 09-27-2005, 10:46 AM   #7
wrex03
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Looks like you are running two much timing, since you really arn't too lean and your boost is not that high.
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Old 09-27-2005, 10:56 AM   #8
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Indulge my curiosity....

Set the 60-80 columns at row 5750 to -6...

Then go logging.

Jorge (RiftsWRX)
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Old 09-27-2005, 11:05 AM   #9
x99percent
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Wow... Look at the RPM bouncing all over the place up there...

...and it starts well before the "3" knock event. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss that first "1" knock as just engine noise.
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Old 09-27-2005, 11:30 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by x99percent
Wow... Look at the RPM bouncing all over the place up there...
yes, that's a lot of delta rpm.

strange.

dave you don't see this or feel this while driving, do you?
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Old 09-27-2005, 12:55 PM   #11
wrex03
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RiftsWRX
Indulge my curiosity....

Set the 60-80 columns at row 5750 to -6...

Then go logging.

Jorge (RiftsWRX)
www.ProjectWRX.com

Jorge, Are you thinking could be related to a >4% movement in his IDC's, or just to lean?
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Old 09-27-2005, 01:03 PM   #12
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how does your air filter and MAF sensor look? clean?
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Old 09-27-2005, 01:19 PM   #13
RiftsWRX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrex03
Jorge, Are you thinking could be related to a >4% movement in his IDC's?
DING DING DING DING

I'm thinking the tuna isn't updating fast enough. But a 4% change in IDC within 150 RPM tells me that for that brief period of time there's a DRAMATIC change in what happened in there. The only constant is a rather dramatic change in cross column mapping. So for grins, map them the same at that point. If that makes an improvement, do the same for 5500 and 6000.

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Old 09-27-2005, 01:31 PM   #14
RiftsWRX
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Code:
3373 +17.0 3.8 97 80	00 +15.0 45.8 +17.5 -4.0 400.00 3.5 11.52
3415 +17.0 3.6 96 80	00 +15.4 41.9 +18.1 -5.2 400.00 3.7 11.56
3475 +16.8 3.7 97 80	00 +16.4 46.8 +18.0 -4.4 400.00 3.6 11.68
3599 +17.0 3.9 98 80	00 +15.3 48.4 +18.3 -4.6 400.00 3.6 11.84
3603 +17.0 3.9 97 80	00 +15.2 50.0 +18.5 -4.8 400.00 3.5 11.84
3703 +16.8 4.0 97 80	00 +15.7 48.8 +18.7 -4.9 400.00 3.7 11.77
3728 +17.0 3.9 96 80	00 +15.8 51.3 +18.8 -5.3 400.00 3.7 11.89
Here's the perfect cause/effect relationship.

You can see at 3415 that IDC drops to 41.9. It takes till 3599 for the Tuna to report a sharp rise to 11.84:1. Conversely, at 3475, the IDC shot up to 46.8, but it wasn't till 3703 that you see AFR drop again. That's a few hundred RPM delay in cause/effect, as reported. The important part to note was that the reported fuel offset of -5.2 is similar to the IDC drop reported, in relation to the other rows.

Now...

Code:
5707 +14.7 4.3 95 70	00 +22.0 75.9 +26.0 -6.2 445.00 4.1 11.65
5747 +14.7 4.4 97 70	00 +22.4 73.5 +26.0 -6.3 445.00 4.1 11.65
5941 +14.9 4.3 97 70	01 +22.8 76.6 +26.1 -6.1 475.00 4.2 11.67
5837 +15.1 4.4 97 80	00 +23.9 78.0 +26.8 -6.6 475.00 4.1 11.62
5787 +14.5 4.4 97 70	00 +23.7 77.6 +26.1 -6.1 475.00 4.1 11.61
5827 +14.3 4.4 97 60	03 +24.0 74.5 +14.4 -6.3 475.00 4.0 11.53
6016 +14.1 4.4 97 70	00 +23.7 77.6 +14.6 -5.6 475.00 4.1 11.56
5973 +13.3 4.3 95 70	00 +23.4 76.9 +15.0 -5.8 475.00 4.1 11.62
Invoke that same logic here.

5747 you have a lean out of -6.3 from the -6.2, which caused a 2 % IDC drop. The tuna didn't report the difference, but we know from my last example that a 4% drop in IDC was over a 3/10th change in AFR. That happened ~220 RPM after the fact.

The 1 count also happened about ~200 RPM after that fact.. Yet, the tuna doesn't report a change, when logic dictates there should be at least SOME reported change.

The 3 count at this point I'd imagine is a direct effect of the 3% dropout again in IDC. As for the RPM discrepency, who knows. But one thing is for certain, assuming this all happened in a 200-300 RPM window, I'll take my chances with the cause/effect theory, and the UTEC's relatively slower sampling rate (in comparison to how fast things ACTUALLY happen).

So, in short, I'd try the fuel map changes.

Jorge (RiftsWRX)
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Old 09-29-2005, 12:55 PM   #15
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So you think going through the fuel maps and smoothing the numbers out a bit could help?

My map is really spotty at this point, as I have been tweaking this area, and that area, little changes at a time, far from what I would consider a "finished" map. WHich would explain the -6.3 to -6.1 jumps.

I havent had a whole lot of opportunity to do any real tuning, so its been mini pulls here and there as I can.

I also havent been putting a ton of effort into smoothing the a/f. More into just getting it into shape and getting it into the correct area. Once I have the a/fs nailed down into the correct range, then I will be concentrating on getting them smoother, which I suspect will go a long way.
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Old 09-29-2005, 10:28 PM   #16
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Is the pump controlled by a progressive controller?
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Old 09-29-2005, 11:01 PM   #17
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yes. The SMC controller is progressive, it starts spraying at 6.5-7ish PSI and is maxing flow at 15ish PSI
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