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Old 09-27-2005, 03:27 AM   #1
LqSilver
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Cool Water injection and the stock ECU?

Hi, I was reading a bit more about the whole water/alky injection thing and it seems pretty cool. I know that if you are going to inject a 50/50 mix or just staight alchohol you need tuning to advance timing and take out some fuel to make it run properly. I was wondering, if you are just going to spray water alone is there anyway you can do that on a stock 2004 wrx with no tuning and still see a benefit? Are there any water injection kits on the market, or better yet could I use, say SMC's kit but only put water in there and somehow use that with my stock wrx?

The reason I ask is that I have an almost stock 2004 wrx here in south florida (tein springs, txs rfl exhaust, bov, and a manual boost controller that I am not using yet) and i'm not sure if many of you are familiar with florida weather but we pretty much have 2 seasons; "hot and not so hot"

My car detonates ALOT, it seems like every other time I get on it im throwing a bunch of pennies around in my engine bay. And it's not just the noise but I can acually feel the flat spots in my rpm band where the stock ecu pulls timing like crazy to try and correct for the 2004's already *****ty fuel map and open loop/closed loop problem. Having a stock tmic thats lost its efficiency and has more dings on it than a face of a pubecent acne infested teenager doesnt help either.

Point is, im being robbed of power and all I want is to just at least make the car feel like how it should feel from the factory. I just want to spray water only to eliminate stock detonation and possibly be able to someday use my mbc and bump the boost up 2 or 3 psi over stock. Is this possible? Can you run a water injection kit without any tuning or without having to purchase an expensive fuel controler?

Thanks for any input you guys have.
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Old 09-27-2005, 04:04 AM   #2
fogdor
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The standard SMC kit is alcohol only. They have upgraded kits for 50/50 mix. Sounds like you have really bad fuel in your area. People in Alaska have been using the SMC kits for an "octane boost" effect since they stopped getting good gas up there. A quick search in the AK forums will bring it all into view.
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Old 09-27-2005, 07:23 AM   #3
scooterforever
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You know, you should get some data logs. And stay away from that MBC.
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Old 09-27-2005, 09:11 AM   #4
VWGrk1
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I think that you can now use straight distilled water with the SMC kits. No need for pump lube or anything.

IIRC, the stock ECU will adjust itself to take advantage of up to 95 or 96 octane gas. So, you'll have an effectively higher octane and a cooler intake charge with an SMC kit.

Still, I think that you'd be better off going for an ECU tune on a dyno.
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Old 09-27-2005, 09:21 AM   #5
J-Rex2004
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Well, I'm sure the BOV isn't helping any on an untuned engine. Sell the MBC, put the stock BPV on and buy an AccessPort.
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Old 09-27-2005, 09:27 AM   #6
Lawrence
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LqSilver
Hi, I was reading a bit more about the whole water/alky injection thing and it seems pretty cool. I know that if you are going to inject a 50/50 mix or just staight alchohol you need tuning to advance timing and take out some fuel to make it run properly. I was wondering, if you are just going to spray water alone is there anyway you can do that on a stock 2004 wrx with no tuning and still see a benefit? Are there any water injection kits on the market, or better yet could I use, say SMC's kit but only put water in there and somehow use that with my stock wrx?

The reason I ask is that I have an almost stock 2004 wrx here in south florida (tein springs, txs rfl exhaust, bov, and a manual boost controller that I am not using yet) and i'm not sure if many of you are familiar with florida weather but we pretty much have 2 seasons; "hot and not so hot"

My car detonates ALOT, it seems like every other time I get on it im throwing a bunch of pennies around in my engine bay. And it's not just the noise but I can acually feel the flat spots in my rpm band where the stock ecu pulls timing like crazy to try and correct for the 2004's already *****ty fuel map and open loop/closed loop problem. Having a stock tmic thats lost its efficiency and has more dings on it than a face of a pubecent acne infested teenager doesnt help either.

Point is, im being robbed of power and all I want is to just at least make the car feel like how it should feel from the factory. I just want to spray water only to eliminate stock detonation and possibly be able to someday use my mbc and bump the boost up 2 or 3 psi over stock. Is this possible? Can you run a water injection kit without any tuning or without having to purchase an expensive fuel controler?

Thanks for any input you guys have.

that bov of yours is creating detonation along with bad fuel i assume. On reall hot weeks i use 93 octanes and normal cool weeks i use 91 ocatane.
Also, are you dumping to the atmostphere? or recirculated?
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Old 09-27-2005, 10:27 AM   #7
LqSilver
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It's venting to atmosphere. I doubt the bov is the cause of detonation, the bov only makes the car run rich for a second or two whenever I shift, it has nothing to do with how lean/hot the car is running when I step on the gas. As for the manual boost controler, I haven't been using it. I have had it for a while now but I havent installed it because I don't want to blow the motor because I am already getting get knock as it is on stock boost.

So it is possibly to run distilled water in smc's kit and not have to worry about lube and or the pump breaking down right?

What about the size of the jet? I would have to run a lot smaller jet if im going to be spraying h2o on stock ecu right? How do I know what size jet to run and where would i get it?
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Old 09-27-2005, 10:56 AM   #8
Lawrence
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hmm, you know after posting what I wrote then started to think to my self. If you car runs rich there should'nt be any detonation to begin with. If it runs rich it will add some timing.
I would first get it check out about the detonation becuase add an alcohol/water might just add to the problem.
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Old 09-27-2005, 11:27 AM   #9
VWGrk1
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I doubt that the BOV is the most likely problem you have. Call SMC and ask them about what they can do for you; much better than asking any of us. They supply many different size nozzles, including some for stock turbos.

Again, if you are detonating so much, then the best thing you can do is get a tune, which could identify any underlying problems that you may have. Your car should not be detonating as much as it is. I would not modify a broken car. You don't know that a $500 kit will solve your issue.

I'd put the $500 towards an ECU tune that will likely yield you more power, be more reliable, possibly identify underlying issues and will be more likely to fix your problem.
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Old 09-27-2005, 11:44 AM   #10
rewt
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If your detonation is due to bad fuel and/or high intake temps, the WI will help your car with no tuning since the stock ECU will advance timing since the car is no longer knocking.
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Old 09-27-2005, 12:07 PM   #11
Uncle Scotty
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....I think ya beter figure out why it is detting and fix that.....ya get 93 octane there and if a stock engine is detting on that, ya got problems other than what you want to believe ya got.
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