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Old 10-03-2005, 05:17 PM   #1
93subi
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Lightbulb port and polish heads?

I was thinking about porting and polishing my ej 1.8 heads since I am going to be taking out the tranny for a rebuild anyway, I figured I would just take the heads off the block and send them out while I rebuilt the tranny. Keep in mind the heads are on a 2.2 shortblock so I am kinda looking to increase air and fuel flow a bit. Thanks for any help guys.
Mike
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Old 10-03-2005, 06:08 PM   #2
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I don't know of anyone who's done it....go for it and see how it works out!

If you have time....see about having some bigger valves put in as well.....

Jay Storm
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Old 10-03-2005, 07:51 PM   #3
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Yeah, you've got nothing to lose. If you screw em up, just pick up another pair for $20. HA!
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Old 10-03-2005, 08:14 PM   #4
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Just make sure you get a three angle valve job out of the deal. Many people don't realize that on most heads, the majority of the gain comes from the valve job and the area around the seats. But on the teeny little Ej18 ports, you will probably be able to remove a lot and open them up...
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Old 10-03-2005, 08:16 PM   #5
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Yeh go for it man, while your at it you might as well send the cams to delta and get them done if you have a little extra cash.
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Old 10-03-2005, 08:22 PM   #6
93subi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chip4761
Yeah, you've got nothing to lose. If you screw em up, just pick up another pair for $20. HA!
I know thats what I love about the 1.8 no one seems to want them around here so parts are practically given to you... besides the junk yard has a few wrecked 93 impreza's, one with only 23K on it so if I screw up these heads i'll just go get those ones
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Old 10-04-2005, 08:43 AM   #7
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whats the CR on your motor? was thinking of doing this same thing as long as there isn't to much pre-det.
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Old 10-04-2005, 01:40 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fwdendurosubie
whats the CR on your motor? was thinking of doing this same thing as long as there isn't to much pre-det.
Why go backwards. You have an Ej22 in there already. Even with his bump in CR, your heads flow way better. With cams you can hit 170chp on your engine. I know because I saw one I built recently verify that on the dyno.

Or, look for the high CR frankenstein thread. If you get an Ej25 bottom end and mate it to your heads, you will gain displacement and a higher CR. I would still do the cams like we did when we built one of these. That engine was probably around 190chp. We never dyno verified it before it blew up (of reasons not related to the build)...
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Old 10-05-2005, 12:07 AM   #9
93subi
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Thumbs down

port and polish no good... OK, so my dad (Subaru Tech for 24 yrs) tells me that port and polish would be useless since the motor does not rev out to 10 grand like a crazy honda, and a 3 angle valve job would be a waist to since the valves only sit in on position anyway.Now as for the issue with the heads, Matt Monson may be right about the 2.2 heads flowing more air however the 1.8 heads have a more agressive cam in them accroding to the repair and service manual for the 1993 Impreza. after doing research using the subaru repair manuals at my dads shop we came to the conclusion that it would be better to use the 1.8 heads. also the size in the ports on the 1.8 arent that small and they would only present a problem if I had put a larger block on the car such as a 2.5, in addition I am still useing the 1.8 ECU and so the same amount of air and fuel is going into the motor. I hope I explained this right and it makes sence. by the way I am not trying to knock Matt, he seems to know his subie stuff real well.
Mike
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Old 10-05-2005, 01:26 AM   #10
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No disrespect to you dad, but you donít have to rev a engine to 10 grand to make use of a P&P. If you heads are flowing more, then there flowing more. Valve jobs are proven to increase flow in heads quite a bit for whatís done. If three angle jobs are such a waste then why do 2.5 heads come from the factory with three angles already cut?
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Old 10-05-2005, 02:14 AM   #11
93subi
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you are probaly right. usually when I talk cars with my dad he tells me if I want a fast car I should go get a WRX or an STI and his reasons are that its not worth putting money into a car thats 12 years going on 13 years old.
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Old 10-05-2005, 03:06 AM   #12
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That's pretty stupid advice from a professional.....The reasoning is even worse. You should ask him if it's worthwile to keep updating his training to keep up with the new technology or just replace him with a young kid just out of college....

You might learn more if you digest the results of people who have done these types of things instead of taking dads advice as the gospel....
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Old 10-05-2005, 03:51 PM   #13
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Go for it, try it yourself. I have p&p'd heads before and it's not too hard to do a little home pocket port job. You won't be able to get max flow without a flowbench and a bunch of testing but you can improve a lot if you take your time.

If you don't have a die grinder get one. Get a couple different bits and just take out the imperfections in casting and gasket match them. Then get the bit that takes sand paper looking rolls and smooth everything out when you get them where you want them. Good luck and WEAR SAFETY GLASSES!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 10-05-2005, 04:45 PM   #14
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I just tried pnp'ing my 2.2t heads. just smoothed things out. I should have got a 3 angle valve job like Matt says. but I ran out of money. we will see how it goes.

Are you russ that ported my turbo????? almost did my heads?
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Old 10-05-2005, 05:27 PM   #15
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i did a port and polish and three angle valve job on my 1.8L vw rabbit hillclimb car, that along with new guides and seals made a huge difference in the power of the motor.

and sorry, but the comment about not needed a three angle valve job because the valve only sits in 1 position or whatever....politely (i'm not trying to be rude) have your dad lookup the differences between different angle valve jobs...it's about the angle that the air is allowed to flow in from, not how many positions the valve seats in...(since i can't think of anything that have valves that move in more than one axis)

make sure to ask your shop if they lap the valves or cnc cut them...from my experience the shops that are cnc'ing them are far more accurate than just a lapping job.
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Old 10-05-2005, 05:32 PM   #16
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how much $$ is a three angle valve job these days?
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Old 10-05-2005, 06:21 PM   #17
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First time I popped into NA today. This is kind of funny. I think the combination of you reading too fast and your dad not being on top of his games makes for some pretty good illusions.

#1. Re-read ,my post. I suggest using Delta/Comp Cams on the Ej22E heads. There goes your dad's cam argument.

#2. You can also take the Ej18 cams along with their roller rockers and move them right over to the Ej22E heads. Can't just move the cams, but you can move the whole assembly. So, your dad's cam argument goes out the window again.

#3 The lift on both the EJ18 and Ej22 is the same. But the Ej22 has bigger valves and significantly larger ports. And IIRC the difference in duration is only something like 5-7 degrees. Not enough to matter. EJ22 heads are significantly better.

#4 The valve job has already been talked about. I don't need to rehash that.

#5 Your comments about the EJ18 ECU just don't jibe. You have a MAF. Your ECU will accomodate the extra air flow of a bigger engine or better flowing heads by adding more fuel. Did you miss the part about how we ran an Ej25/Ej22 hybrid on a 1.8l ECU?

I'm done...
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Old 10-05-2005, 11:02 PM   #18
G.Subramaniam
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What are the good and cheap NA head port and polish shops for subarus
1. TWE $$$$
2. DPR $$$
3. DPR east - Pure Tuning $$
anyone else ?
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Old 10-06-2005, 12:20 AM   #19
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I got my 3-Angle Valve job for 300$ on my EJ25 DOHC Heads.
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Old 10-06-2005, 12:36 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 93subi
port and polish no good... OK, so my dad (Subaru Tech for 24 yrs) tells me that port and polish would be useless since the motor does not rev out to 10 grand like a crazy honda, and a 3 angle valve job would be a waist to since the valves only sit in on position anyway.Now as for the issue with the heads, Matt Monson may be right about the 2.2 heads flowing more air however the 1.8 heads have a more agressive cam in them accroding to the repair and service manual for the 1993 Impreza. after doing research using the subaru repair manuals at my dads shop we came to the conclusion that it would be better to use the 1.8 heads. also the size in the ports on the 1.8 arent that small and they would only present a problem if I had put a larger block on the car such as a 2.5, in addition I am still useing the 1.8 ECU and so the same amount of air and fuel is going into the motor. I hope I explained this right and it makes sence. by the way I am not trying to knock Matt, he seems to know his subie stuff real well.
Mike
Im sorry to say but your dad is wrong, why would it matter only if you are revving to 10k RPM? I would be more than adimit to say that with a good port and polish and a 3 or more angle valve job you could expect roughly 15 - 25 hp
And in response to your statement about the valves only sitting on one angle..
This is correct (valves always sit on one angle), the other angles are meant to help out airflow which is a bigger deal on your NA engine rather than Turbo.

Porting will free up a conjested engine.. Example your setup is higher compression as well as having more displacement. You should see more of a gain than someone else porting the same heads and using them on the 1.8L

Other stuff that "headporters" do..
-Blend the valve seat to the chamber itself-- no steps left between the 2.
-Polished Combustion Chambers- Reduces detonation.

Good luck.. I hope this helps you understand a little better.
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Old 10-06-2005, 03:47 AM   #21
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Dude I'm going to assume that you dad is a pretty intelligent guy. I know most dads are. I'm sure he's familiar with vavle train and flow. etc etc etc. I am going to suggest that what he probably told you and what you posted here lost something in the translation. It happens.

What I think he was saying was that you will not be able to achieve maxium effiency of a port an polish because you are not reving it out that high. To make bigger number you will NEED to rev past 6k RPM's and most aggressive cams will makethe bulk of their power above 3k-4k RPM's.

He is also basing this on 24 years of on the job experience and we have seen a lot change in the past 5 years. Go read what Mike Shields was saying about tuning the EJ25 engine just a few years ago ( www.spdusa.com ). Mike is very subaru literate. The information is starting to get dated. Technology is getting better we are able to make better simulations on computers and apply that to the engines we build. But this is relativly new stuff. Just look at the 70's and 80's if you had less than 150 cubic inches you did NOT have a sports car. Things are changing. Your dad does not performance tune engines. He's just basing the scenerio on what he has seen. Maybe we should back off a bit and realize that he's a Subaru Trained REPAIR Mechanic. There are mechainics that fix engines and there are mechanics that build and tune engines. There is a big difference.

He is right. If you want to make more power get a different car. Your Ej22 won't make numbers like the WRX or the STI does. And yes if you are looking for speed you're wasting your time going with a NA build. ZZYZX's car is awesome but thats about as much power as you can get from a NA subaru engine. People are making over 500AWHP on WRX's and STI's. NOW... if you just like your car. Which I think there is plenty to love in the GC chassis you can get more gains from the NA engine just realize that you are going reach the limitations of that engine a lot sooner than a WRX or an STI. Which aren't 12 or 13 year old cars.

cheers

garrett
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