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Old 10-06-2005, 07:45 PM   #1
tonzo
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Subaru Stars ej22t performance camshafts?

Can anyone recommend a place where i could find some good camshafts at a decent price?
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Old 10-06-2005, 08:22 PM   #2
tonzo
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also, will getting a higher performance camshaft throw off the stock compression ratio of the ej22t heads?
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Old 10-06-2005, 08:34 PM   #3
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try delta cam of tacoma washington, google it, they have a website but im feeling lazy right now. I have their stage one cams in my car and they make a nice difference.
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Old 10-06-2005, 10:17 PM   #4
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Just so ya know, if you swap on some RS or WRX heads, you'll get a hell of a lot more performance than a cam in the stock EJ22t heads (and probably for less $$). Those heads were some of the worst flowing POS heads that subaru has made.

Also, cams dont do anything to increase/decrease cylinder volume, and therefore have no effect on compression ratio. They just change the timing, duration, and lift of the valves (so that they open farther, for longer, and usually sooner).
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Old 10-06-2005, 11:14 PM   #5
tonzo
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well I'm not going to be running them NA. RS heads would not help me in my turbocharged route
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Old 10-06-2005, 11:22 PM   #6
tonzo
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my main thing is that if I get higher performance cams will there be too much compressed air let in due to the fact that my intake valves will be open longer?
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Old 10-06-2005, 11:37 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonzo
my main thing is that if I get higher performance cams will there be too much compressed air let in due to the fact that my intake valves will be open longer?
so long as you have a way of tuning the fuel, and measuring your a/f ratio, you should be fine. (and even if you dont have a wideband 02, you could do a very rough tune by just dumping in lots of fuel, then taking it out little by little).

And N/A heads would help you, because the turbo legacy heads suck. It doesn't matter if their N/A heads, or turbo heads, they do the same thing in the same way. The plain and simple fact is that turbo legacy heads dont flow as well as RS or WRX heads. This hurts HP, no matter how much/little boost you have.

Proof of the flow is here...
http://users.adelphia.net/~wedge138/cobb1999_2.htm

The SOHC heads outflow not only the EJ22t heads, but also LS1 heads.

Last edited by tooocool49723; 10-07-2005 at 12:01 AM.
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Old 10-06-2005, 11:41 PM   #8
tonzo
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ok then what is it about the heads that make you say they flow poorly? the fact that their valves are smaller? or do you have other reasons?
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Old 10-07-2005, 12:08 AM   #9
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(copied and pasted flow ratings from cobb's flowbench)
IN MAX FLOW @ MAX LIFT
EJ25 SOHC: 240 CFM @ 0.375" Lift
EJ22T SOHC: 193 CFM @ 0.350" Lift
GM LS1: 231 CFM @ 0.500" Lift

EX MAX FLOW @ MAX LIFT
EJ25 SOHC: 182 CFM @ 0.310" Lift
EJ22T SOHC: 147 CFM @ 0.350" Lift
GM LS1: 193 CFM @ 0.500" Lift

As for a why, you'll have to ask someone like Wedge about that. I would send you to his site (http://www.imprezahybrid.info) but it seems his site is down right now.
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Old 10-07-2005, 12:13 AM   #10
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that's also going by stock standards correct?
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Old 10-07-2005, 12:17 AM   #11
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Yes, all heads were tested when stock.
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Old 10-07-2005, 12:20 AM   #12
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but with a rebuild those numbers would change if different components were used correct?
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Old 10-07-2005, 01:09 PM   #13
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uuhhhh, NA heads are not the same as turbo heads. the NA heads are better flowing, with little work the sohc ej22t heads can perform just as well anyways.
BUT, the NA heads dont have oil feed lines to the turbo, so if you want to use em you have to get a special fitment made to draw oil out of the passenger head. thats just as much work as cams...
im sure they just made the RS heads better because well they ARE newer, but also to get the performance without turbocharging where if they were high flow on the legacy, it would have scared old grannys pants off how much more power it would make. just a thought
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Old 10-07-2005, 02:06 PM   #14
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thanks for the backup there. i got these heads for a really good price. So all I want to know is where i can get some decent priced camshafts. I'm not asking people what their opinions of my project are. because, no offense but i don't care at this point. not to be mean but i know what i want to do. now I'm trying to find the parts I need.
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Old 10-07-2005, 02:51 PM   #15
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yeah, i have no experiance working with cams and havent heard much about them on our engine, but im sure if you give delta a call they will turn out to be what you want. delta cams are what everybody puts in their NA 1.8, 2.2 and 2.5's so ya, good luck with your project
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Old 10-07-2005, 04:18 PM   #16
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Hello,
For starters, Tooocool, you should spend some more time talking about what you know about, and not trying to look cool by spraying shat information all over the place.

#1 Delta cams run $130 a pair when ground on your own cores. You aren't going to get a set of blown up wasted Ej25 heads for that.
#2 Since you posted the flow numbers, tell me how 193cfm's is flowing like crap? Stock WRX heads only flow like 220cfm or so. With a good valve job and some mild porting, one can easily hit that with some Ej22T heads.

#3 Do you realize that a number of guys here in Colorado hit 400chp on stock EJ22T turbos before the EJ22T/Ej25 head formula existed? And those same guys were among the first in this country to try that formula. While I totally respect Wedge and his very real build, he was not the first one to do it. The Cox family and Mark R. were really the leading edge in that realm. And like I said, they got the EJ22T up to 400hp before they raised the bar. So, saying you cannot make good power with Ej22 heads is just ignorant.

Are Ej25 heads better than Ej22T heads? Yes, getting that set up done cost a whole lot more and is for a whole nother tier of power. There are a lot of guys out there who would be happy with 250-350chp, and for that Ej22T heads are totally ample.

tonzo,
Shoot a PM to DZX. He's here in Colorado and is currently running the Delta cams in his Ej22T. He's of a new generation playing with an EJ22T in a Legacy Turbo. The reality here is that not everyone has $5000 to sink into a build like Wedge did...
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Old 10-07-2005, 05:35 PM   #17
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Jeez matt you forgot about me?!?!?!?!? NO I just got my cams bak from delta for my EJ22t. I am putting the heads on the block tonight. I have to have th car running by monday and my car is probably more like your car (tonzo) I only have the TD04 turbo on my car and DZX is running a crazy T3/t4 thing I think. BUt dzx said they were nice. It cost me $143 and shipping for the stage 1 street regrind. super wuick turnaround time. I will let you know how they run.
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Old 10-07-2005, 06:14 PM   #18
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No,
I didn't forget about you. You just can't speak about your personal experience yet, since the car is in pieces...
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Old 10-07-2005, 08:15 PM   #19
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Point well made. Soon, god i hope soon. seriously it has to be aligned on tuesday and make it from the middle of wyoming to albequerque, NM on thursday. Then I should have some info for sure.
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Old 10-07-2005, 09:03 PM   #20
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wow that is cheaper than i woulda guessed for the cams, nice...
you should see my car... i stripped everything today, cept the top of the dash havent gotten there yet, but all carpeting, center consul, and seats are out, ready to start the wiring process, any clue what ALL i have to rewire? i need a starting point. i pm'd monson and nico on legacycentral but havent gotten word but ya, i havent even found the old ECU yet, of course i havent really gotten to work on it yet.
do i need to mess with the wires to the fuel pump? to the rear lights? etc.
hmmmmmmmmmmmmm
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Old 10-08-2005, 12:16 PM   #21
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your imprezaq ecu is under a cover under the carpet on the passenger side.
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Old 10-08-2005, 03:18 PM   #22
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yeah and actaully cams do effect the compression ratio -the dynamic compression ratio. When the pistons begin their compression stroke the valves have to actually be closed for the air in the chamber to be compressed. Obviously the cams control the valve events so... The intake valve is usually open for a little while after the piston begins its compression stroke. You can figure out the dynamic compression if you know the ABDC number in degrees of the cams you intend to buy. The ABDC (after bottom dead center) nember will tell you how long the intake valve stays open during the begining of the compression stroke.

If you have a goal for the powerband of your engine then you need to actaully figure out if the cams will get you what you want. There's a lot of research that goes into that. In general everything in the engine has to work together, because cams will work best with a specific compression ratio and a specific primary exhuast size and a specific amount of boost and intake design.... a bunch of research anyway.
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Old 10-08-2005, 08:55 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pantfire
yeah and actaully cams do effect the compression ratio -the dynamic compression ratio. When the pistons begin their compression stroke the valves have to actually be closed for the air in the chamber to be compressed. Obviously the cams control the valve events so... The intake valve is usually open for a little while after the piston begins its compression stroke. You can figure out the dynamic compression if you know the ABDC number in degrees of the cams you intend to buy. The ABDC (after bottom dead center) nember will tell you how long the intake valve stays open during the begining of the compression stroke.

If you have a goal for the powerband of your engine then you need to actaully figure out if the cams will get you what you want. There's a lot of research that goes into that. In general everything in the engine has to work together, because cams will work best with a specific compression ratio and a specific primary exhuast size and a specific amount of boost and intake design.... a bunch of research anyway.

That is true... My 1986 porsche 944S had ~180 psi of compression when tested then i installed a very very radical cam and the compression dropped to ~160. with 10.9:1 compression
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Old 10-09-2005, 01:08 AM   #24
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It will also change your vacuum at idle.
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Old 10-10-2005, 02:59 PM   #25
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Natoe,
I don't remember a PM. Regardless, you need to get the wiring diagrams for both cars. And put your seats back in. You will be far more comfortable sitting in the seat than on the floor...
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