Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Friday August 28, 2015
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC General > Proven Power Bragging

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-30-2013, 07:34 PM   #1
worksti
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 117847
Join Date: Jun 2006
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Seattle, WA.
Vehicle:
2005 Rotated DOM3XTR
460whp, 400wtq Pump Tune

Default MPS Rotated DOM3XTR - 487whp@6350, 472wtq@4550

- 03_24_12 - New MPS Motor Built, Installed and Dyno Tuned MPS.
Blouch Dom3XTR 10cm 3", Methanol Injection
470whp@6300rpm, 436wtq@5400rpm - 22.3psi

- 05_29_13 - MPS Dyno Tune, Rotated Dom3XTR, replaced 10cm hotside with .82
MPS fabricated Cold Air Intake, MPS manufactured Rotated Kit (all other variables equal)
487whp@6350rpm, 472wtq@4550rpm (+100wtq@4500rpm) - 22.8psi

Event: Dyno Tune
Location: Maxwell Power Services
Ambient Temp: 50 degrees Fahrenheit
Elevation: ~100ft above sea level

Car: 2005 Subaru STi
Tuner: DynoComp
Peak HP at RPM: 486.8whp @ 6,350 rpm
Peak Torque at RPM: 472.4wtq@4550 rpm
Target Boost: 22.8psi
Fuel: 93 Octane + Methanol Injection

Engine/Power Modifications:
- Blouch - Dom3xtr .82 hotside / 3" EWG
- MPS - Rotated Turbo Kit
- Cobb - AccessPort - MPS | Home
- Devil's Own - STi Stage 2 - 50/50 Water / Methanol Progressive Injection System
- Kelford - 264 Cams for AVCS Heads
- JE - Custom Pistons w/ Ceramic Crowns and Performance Heads w/ H-Beam Rods (8000rpm Redline)
- ACL - Rod Bearings
- Ferrea - Stainless Valves
- Manley - Springs w/ Ti Retainers
- MAP - Ultimate H11 Head Stud Kit
- Killer Bee - Oil Pan Kit with Pickup and Windage Tray
- Tial - 44mm EWG
- Agency Power - Equal Length Headers
- MPS - Turbo Inlet / Cold Air Intake
- MPS - Top Feed Fuel Conversion w/ 1000cc Injectors
- MPS - -6 Fuel Line Kit
- Walbro - 255 LPH Fuel Pump
- Group N - Motor Mounts
- Invidia - Q300 Cat-Back Exhaust
- TurboSmart - E-Boost 2 (Stealth Series)
- Perrin - Front Mount Intercooler (Stealth Series)


Stock Location DOM3XTR, 10cm hotside, 3" EWG



Rotated DOM3XTR, .82 hotside, 3" (all else unchanged)



Comparison (sorry for crap image)







* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
worksti is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Old 05-30-2013, 07:59 PM   #2
Scuby04STi
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 328635
Join Date: Aug 2012
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Portland*
Vehicle:
2004 STi GTX3076R
Rally Blue

Default

Good call switching location, seems to be a solid set-up. Is that 6500-7000 range the wall for that turbo? Or was something else the limiting factor?

But out of curiosity did you happen to make any pulls with no meth?
Scuby04STi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2013, 08:04 PM   #3
Junior2JZ
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 64908
Join Date: Jun 2004
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Tuning 8/9sec Subies @ P&L
Vehicle:
10.8 XT+10.0@143 GR+
2x9.0@170mph GTRs

Default

So this is a rotated Dom 3.0 with a t3 .82 hotside now?
Junior2JZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2013, 08:35 PM   #4
manitou
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 193757
Join Date: Nov 2008
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Cedar, MI HP Techs MPS-SSLR2.5
Vehicle:
2006 XTI Limited
OBP, Junior tuned 573WHP

Default

Yeah I don't get it. Why not just put a Precision turbo on it if you're going to the effort of rotating a turbo! I mean I made 460 WHP with straight 93 and my Dom 3.5 and 560 WHP on e85 in the stock location.
manitou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2013, 08:55 PM   #5
bilt2run
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 134211
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: LONG ISLAND
Default

that inlet pipe looks very small...2.5"? If so how did this make any more power then stock location?
Either way the results do look good
bilt2run is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2013, 01:27 AM   #6
worksti
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 117847
Join Date: Jun 2006
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Seattle, WA.
Vehicle:
2005 Rotated DOM3XTR
460whp, 400wtq Pump Tune

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scuby04STi View Post
Good call switching location, seems to be a solid set-up. Is that 6500-7000 range the wall for that turbo? Or was something else the limiting factor?

But out of curiosity did you happen to make any pulls with no meth?
Seems this turbo is just starts to run out of breath. This is why most people go larger and compromise spool.

Did not do a full tune off methanol, but the Eboost defaults to 17lbs peak boost.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Junior2JZ View Post
So this is a rotated Dom 3.0 with a t3 .82 hotside now?
Dom3XTR with a .82 hotside, yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bilt2run View Post
that inlet pipe looks very small...2.5"? If so how did this make any more power then stock location?
Either way the results do look good
The turbo inlet is full 3"... It was explained to me that rotated setups make more power because with less restriction, the turbo spools sooner and is able to move more air at target boost pressure.

I believe this little experiment is valid proof of concept.
worksti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2013, 05:54 AM   #7
A-man07
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 271525
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: BagEnd
Vehicle:
07 STi
424whp/382wtq GT3076

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by worksti View Post
Seems this turbo is just starts to run out of breath. This is why most people go larger and compromise spool.

Did not do a full tune off methanol, but the Eboost defaults to 17lbs peak boost.



Dom3XTR with a .82 hotside, yes.



The turbo inlet is full 3"... It was explained to me that rotated setups make more power because with less restriction, the turbo spools sooner and is able to move more air at target boost pressure.

I believe this little experiment is valid proof of concept.
But your spool isn't very good. Proof of what concept? There are any number of nonstock location turbos that would have given as much or more power and a wider powerband (with better spool characteristics). Your result is nice but you haven't reinvented anything.
A-man07 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2013, 05:50 PM   #8
worksti
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 117847
Join Date: Jun 2006
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Seattle, WA.
Vehicle:
2005 Rotated DOM3XTR
460whp, 400wtq Pump Tune

Default

Haha. Ok buddy. If you're at 2500 rpm in 6th and dab the throttle it makes 2lbs of boost. If it spooled any faster I'd need a bigger fuel tank
worksti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2013, 06:07 PM   #9
manitou
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 193757
Join Date: Nov 2008
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Cedar, MI HP Techs MPS-SSLR2.5
Vehicle:
2006 XTI Limited
OBP, Junior tuned 573WHP

Default

Of course you're going to spool the turbo doing that, it's a high load situation! The higher the gear the quicker it spools

Last edited by manitou; 05-31-2013 at 06:28 PM.
manitou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2013, 06:16 PM   #10
spintheground
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 239638
Join Date: Feb 2010
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: VA Beach
Vehicle:
2007 WRX TR UGM
02 MR2 EGM

Default

Looks good for 22.5 PSI, could you not push it more than that though?
spintheground is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2013, 09:22 PM   #11
worksti
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 117847
Join Date: Jun 2006
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Seattle, WA.
Vehicle:
2005 Rotated DOM3XTR
460whp, 400wtq Pump Tune

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by manitou View Post
Of course you're going to spool the turbo doing that, it's a high load situation! The higher the gear the quicker it spools
The car idles showing -18lbs on the EBoost. Turn on the AC and Eboost reads -15lbs.
worksti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2013, 10:49 PM   #12
kellygnsd
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 32669
Join Date: Feb 2003
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: San Pedro
Vehicle:
2007 2.34LR, EFR7670
LINK G4 hybrid STi

Default

-18 lbs is greater than a perfect vacuum. You should probably check the calibration on that thing.
kellygnsd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2013, 10:50 PM   #13
kellygnsd
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 32669
Join Date: Feb 2003
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: San Pedro
Vehicle:
2007 2.34LR, EFR7670
LINK G4 hybrid STi

Default

I'd believe 18 inHg vacuum though.
kellygnsd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2013, 11:43 PM   #14
xluben
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 261612
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Vehicle:
2002 WRX Sedan
9.9s @ 140mph

Default

I don't see how it has anything to do with the comment above though.

It looks like a decent setup overall. But I would definitely chose a standard Garrett 30R for a rotated setup (instead of a buying a more expensive Blouch and then spending more money on a new exhaust housing).
xluben is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2013, 04:24 AM   #15
worksti
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 117847
Join Date: Jun 2006
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Seattle, WA.
Vehicle:
2005 Rotated DOM3XTR
460whp, 400wtq Pump Tune

Default

Not sure about calibration but the turbo sensitivity has greatly changed.

Last edited by worksti; 06-01-2013 at 04:33 AM.
worksti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2013, 04:30 AM   #16
worksti
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 117847
Join Date: Jun 2006
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Seattle, WA.
Vehicle:
2005 Rotated DOM3XTR
460whp, 400wtq Pump Tune

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by xluben View Post
It looks like a decent setup overall. But I would definitely chose a standard Garrett 30R for a rotated setup (instead of a buying a more expensive Blouch and then spending more money on a new exhaust housing).
Agreed, rotated the Dom3xtr because I wasn't planning to go rotated to begin. Once decided, the idea of saving money by not buying a new blower was appealing.

The outcome is better than expected. Feels like an entirely different animal.
worksti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2013, 10:21 AM   #17
Irv Weissmanhowerton
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 278519
Join Date: Apr 2011
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Phatbotti
Vehicle:
30r E85 sti 450+whp
kb'izzle

Default

Sure got that thing to spool faster. Good comparison graph
Irv Weissmanhowerton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2013, 12:22 PM   #18
subbi7
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 241967
Join Date: Mar 2010
Vehicle:
02 wrx

Default

I have atp gt3076 bolton turbo.
What is the size of the turbine housing?
Is it worth to replace it with .82 and go rotated?
subbi7 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2013, 01:52 PM   #19
NW2TONE
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 212509
Join Date: May 2009
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: marysville,WA
Vehicle:
unde your hood makin
your **** go faster

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by manitou View Post
Yeah I don't get it. Why not just put a Precision turbo on it if you're going to the effort of rotating a turbo! I mean I made 460 WHP with straight 93 and my Dom 3.5 and 560 WHP on e85 in the stock location.
Because some people like to see if theres a differance..
And he didnt have to buy a new turbo. gained a bunch of torque a little hp and a crap ton of spool.
Chill out man. Now if he wants to later he can buy a nice turbo and sell this one still. and if he sticks with a 30r size he doesnt have to buy a hotside.

for those that cant read... HE ALREADY HAD THIS TURBO HE DIDNT BUY IT TO ROTATE IT
NW2TONE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2013, 02:01 PM   #20
Maxwell Power
Former Vendor
 
Member#: 190729
Join Date: Oct 2008
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Marysville, WA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by A-man07 View Post
But your spool isn't very good. Proof of what concept? There are any number of nonstock location turbos that would have given as much or more power and a wider powerband (with better spool characteristics). Your result is nice but you haven't reinvented anything.
are you blind? The difference was dramatic. There was a HUGE gain in spool, large gain in torque and a mild gain in HP (almost 20hp). I didn't touch the boost control at all.

Isn't that what almost everyone wants? Better spool and more power... I get those emails all day long.

The customer already had a DOM 3 and asked us what could be done to gain spool. So we set him up with this. Now, if he wants more, he can do any t3 fitment turbo, put the old housing back on his DOM3 and sell it.
If he doesn't want more power, he has a Billet Compressor Wheeled 30R already.

Seems pretty win win to me.
Maxwell Power is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2013, 02:03 PM   #21
Maxwell Power
Former Vendor
 
Member#: 190729
Join Date: Oct 2008
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Marysville, WA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by manitou View Post
Yeah I don't get it. Why not just put a Precision turbo on it if you're going to the effort of rotating a turbo! I mean I made 460 WHP with straight 93 and my Dom 3.5 and 560 WHP on e85 in the stock location.
because he doesn't have to buy another expensive turbo to do so and still gets all the gains.
What on earth does your power have to do with what he had us do? Why does every post you make revolve around YOUR car? You have a nice FXT. Stop pushing it in everyone's face.
Maxwell Power is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2013, 02:14 PM   #22
Scuby04STi
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 328635
Join Date: Aug 2012
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Portland*
Vehicle:
2004 STi GTX3076R
Rally Blue

Default

subbi7: I have a rotated 30R with a .82 hot side, it loves that hot side. Just kinda need cams to really get the full benefit of a rotated 30R with a .82 hot side.

Whats your power band look like?
Scuby04STi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2013, 02:56 PM   #23
manitou
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 193757
Join Date: Nov 2008
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Cedar, MI HP Techs MPS-SSLR2.5
Vehicle:
2006 XTI Limited
OBP, Junior tuned 573WHP

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NW2TONE View Post
Because some people like to see if theres a differance..
And he didnt have to buy a new turbo. gained a bunch of torque a little hp and a crap ton of spool.
Chill out man. Now if he wants to later he can buy a nice turbo and sell this one still. and if he sticks with a 30r size he doesnt have to buy a hotside.

for those that cant read... HE ALREADY HAD THIS TURBO HE DIDNT BUY IT TO ROTATE IT
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxwell Power View Post
because he doesn't have to buy another expensive turbo to do so and still gets all the gains.
What on earth does your power have to do with what he had us do? Why does every post you make revolve around YOUR car? You have a nice FXT. Stop pushing it in everyone's face.
Look guys, he was the one that posted on the Blouch thread stating that you should rotate the Blouch stock location turbos. Check it out. I was saying that you don't need to rotate the Blouch SL turbos to get good spool and power and I used my car as an example as our builds are similar, different heads though. Is that hard for you to understand? His car is not spooling that Dom 3 any sooner than my Dom 3.5, which is bigger and should spool later. I did see a 25 WHP and 12 WTQ gain ditching the Cobb SF intake and making a 3" SR with velocity stack before my re-tune in March. I'm not refuting the gains from rotating a turbo at all.

I know he had the Dom 3 and he didn't buy a new turbo but he did have to buy the new hot side housing. If he would have sold the Dom 3 and bought a new PTE 5862 BB (comparable size turbo) I'll bet it would have been a wash $$ wise and he would have had a better turbo for the rotated position, V band up and down hotside and a better compressor cover with better flow. The Dom's are great as you know for the stock location but they are restricted on the compressor housing to fit the stock location.

Do you think my reasoning is flawed? I am also not pushing my car in everyone's face, so just chill out!! What's you beef anyway? You act like your word is gospel, you do know a **** ton but this is an open forum and that's why we are here to discuss and debate things. These are not attacks so quit taking them that way!

You guys did get good results here especially at 22.5 psi of boost! Good job overall!! What's the timing like at peak torque and redline, if I may ask? Are you using the MAF as well as SD in the tune?

I also sent you an email last week I'm sure you're busy but I would appreciate a reply sometime.

Last edited by manitou; 06-01-2013 at 03:04 PM.
manitou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2013, 03:39 PM   #24
Paul
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 56203
Join Date: Feb 2004
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: south nj
Vehicle:
00 RSTI Coupe
Twin Scroll 2.5XTR EJ207

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxwell Power View Post
are you blind? The difference was dramatic. There was a HUGE gain in spool, large gain in torque and a mild gain in HP (almost 20hp). I didn't touch the boost control at all.
I have 20/20 vision yet your graphs are very hard to see. The overlay graph of both I cant make anything out to make a decent comparison...Can you make the lines darker? Just going by the number difference I'd say there was gains but I wouldnt use the word HUGE.


Is there anyway you could scale the first 2 plots the same?. That also would help make a honest comparison.
Paul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2013, 04:13 PM   #25
subbi7
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 241967
Join Date: Mar 2010
Vehicle:
02 wrx

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scuby04STi View Post
subbi7: I have a rotated 30R with a .82 hot side, it loves that hot side. Just kinda need cams to really get the full benefit of a rotated 30R with a .82 hot side.

Whats your power band look like?
i gust want to improve the tourqe,to get it sooner with better spool...
subbi7 is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:00 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2015 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2015, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.