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Old 10-10-2005, 06:13 PM   #1
tubular031
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Default LT1 Camaro, LS1 Camaro and a WRX

Ok my Boss was giving me a hard time for buying a 03 WRX. He use to have a LT1 Camaro and he keeps saying that his Camaro would destroy my little japo car. From all the mile numbers I see around the Internet, they are all pretty even with the LS1 having a slightly better time (stock to stock). I know that when it comes to turns the WRX will stomp on the Camaro. I will soon be going to cobb stage 2. How will I hang with the Camaro and firebird guys after stage 2? (in a stright line)



**EDIT**

Thanks for all the great info guys! Once again NASIOC members rock!!

Ok lets talk a little about handling now. How does a stock Camaro compair to a stock WRX?
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Last edited by tubular031; 10-10-2005 at 10:01 PM.
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Old 10-10-2005, 06:22 PM   #2
Smoby
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If they are stock and you are stage 2 then you will work them.
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Old 10-10-2005, 06:27 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tubular031
Ok my Boss was giving me a hard time for buying a 03 WRX. He use to have a LT1 Camaro and he keeps saying that his Camaro would destroy my little japo car. From all the mile numbers I see around the Internet, they are all pretty even with the LS1 having a slightly better time (stock to stock). I know that when it comes to turns the WRX will stomp on the Camaro. I will soon be going to cobb stage 2. How will I hang with the Camaro and firebird guys after stage 2? (in a stright line)
That latest Camaro's actually handled quite well. They were nice handling RWD setups, unlike the poor RWD handling setup of the same era Mustangs. So, coupled with their very powerful V8's and a good RWD a WRX would still need to be worried straight line and twists.
The problem with those cars became their weight.
Also, 0-60 and 1/4 mile is better and then it gets even worse for the WRX once higher speed and HP come into play.

T
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Old 10-10-2005, 06:34 PM   #4
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I think you should look more at average trap speeds between the 3 cars, rather than ET, as your ET is a large reflection of your 60' ft time, which is determined by *your* ability to launch rather than your car having a better power/weight ratio. If they're stock and you're stage 2, there's a good chance you can pull a better ET than them, and possibly even trap higher than the LT1 (possibly), but I'm pretty sure the LS1 will be trapping a few MPH higher than you, and would walk away from you from a roll. Just my $.02
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Old 10-10-2005, 06:38 PM   #5
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A stock WRX vs. a stock LS1 will lose badly, they are a firm low 13 second car, a stock WRX is a 14.0-14.5 second car depending on if you launch but have fun with the broken parts, these are not drag cars. You are comparing a RWD drag 8 cyl vs. a rally car. I know nothing about the stage upgrades for these cars however I know the LS1 camaro is not a toy
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Old 10-10-2005, 06:49 PM   #6
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FYI, a stage 2 WRX has the ability to run low 13's as well, when my car was "stage 2" (Ecutek, not AP or UTEC) I was running pretty consistent 13.3's (with 1.7-1.8 60' ft times), that's why I said he might be able to pull a faster ET, but the LS1 should be trapping higher. It's all depending on the drivers, I've seen bad drivers in LS1's spin their wheels to the tune of 14's, and WRX's bog their way into the 15's. I would give the edge to the LS1, but you *can* beat him (assuming you're stage 2 by then) if you get a good launch and he can't launch worth a piss.

EDIT: There's a possibility you can pull a quicker ET, but unless something is wrong with the guy's car, the LS1 should still be a faster car, especially at higher speeds where launching isn't an issue.

Last edited by roninsoldier83; 10-10-2005 at 06:55 PM.
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Old 10-10-2005, 07:02 PM   #7
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I wouldn't want to straight-line race a 4th generation Camaro. The LT-1 versions were rated between 275-305 HP. The LS-1 versions were rated anywhere from 305-320 HP. Oh, and they all deliver 320-340 ft-lbs of torque. Even a Cobb Stage 2 isn't really going to match those numbers (certainly not the V8 torque curve), you are going to be counting on AWD and less weight to even the odds, so if you aren't racing from a dead stop, you are probably always hosed in a straight line unless the Camaro driver screws up.
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Old 10-10-2005, 07:10 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sean10mm
The LS-1 versions were rated anywhere from 305-320 HP.
To add to that, it is an accepted fact that the LS1 was underrated, and actually had around 350hp (same motor as in the Corvette), this is proven by the large number of people putting down 300+ wheel horsepower bone stock. Also, it's said an LS1 is an LS1, I've seen dynos of stock Z28's (rated 305hp) putting down identical numbers as a stock SS (rated 320hp), the power ratings don't really matter, they all pretty much have around 350hp.
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Old 10-10-2005, 07:16 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F0rcedFed
A stock WRX vs. a stock LS1 will lose badly, they are a firm low 13 second car, a stock WRX is a 14.0-14.5 second car depending on if you launch but have fun with the broken parts, these are not drag cars. You are comparing a RWD drag 8 cyl vs. a rally car. I know nothing about the stage upgrades for these cars however I know the LS1 camaro is not a toy
agreed...stage 2 wrx gets to about mid 13's, stock ls1 camaro will do low 13's...wrx's are not drag cars, but they are very fast...my .02

i always respect v8 rwd chevy's and pontiac's because i came from one, and my father used to have a 69 camaro and that thing was serious...i was actually looking at a 02 SS and wrx's but realized that i live in new england and i should get away from the rwd v8 for a daily driver.
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Old 10-10-2005, 07:18 PM   #10
KingOfSiam
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If these Camaro and Firebird guys are import haters/muscle junkies, what makes all y'all think that their cars would be stock?

I wouldn't drag with those suckers, even at stage II.
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Old 10-10-2005, 07:20 PM   #11
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he can beat you..but if you ever driven one..it feels like driving a big boat


wrx is very fast? ***
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Old 10-10-2005, 07:21 PM   #12
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those cars are insanely cheap to modify and make big power with

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Old 10-10-2005, 07:29 PM   #13
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i' say that if he was LT-1 you would have a chance...but idk about LS-1...now if you were in a STi that would be a different story...
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Old 10-10-2005, 07:43 PM   #14
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Wow. This is a first. Nearly everyone agrees that an LS1, even an LT1, would beat a Stage 1/2 WRX. Most of the time you get the delusional group who think that their F/I 4-cylinder AWD is the shiznit and will beat a McLaren F1.

Kudos to ronin who pointed out that you should look at traps instead of ETs. The only reason the WRX performs well in the 1/4-mile is due to AWD. If it were a FWD or RWD vehicle, it would not show as well.
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Old 10-10-2005, 08:05 PM   #15
quazimoto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ktm
If it were a FWD or RWD vehicle, it would not show as well.
If it were RWD only it would faster.The reduced drive train reduction would equal more power to the wheels and i don't think wheel spin would be to much of a problem.Perfect example:Conquest TSI.
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Old 10-10-2005, 08:07 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dumdum
If it were RWD only it would faster.The reduced drive train reduction would equal more power to the wheels and i don't think wheel spin would be to much of a problem.
Wrong. The WRX has a low ET for one reason only: AWD. Why do you think that a 225 hp WRX can have the same 1/4 time as a 350z, which has 65 more ponies and is RWD? Look at other RWD vehicles that have a similar weight and power (E46 330Ci and IS300) and you see that they do not perform nearly as well as the WRX.
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Old 10-10-2005, 08:08 PM   #17
roninsoldier83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sean10mm
you are going to be counting on AWD and less weight to even the odds
One more note, even though the LS1 will obviously be faster, there is actually 1 more slight advantage a WRX would have. Gearing:
WRX: 3.454 (1st) 1.947 (2nd) 1.366 (3rd) 0.972 (4th) 0.738 (5th) 3.90 final drive (3.54 rear w/1.1:1 conversion)
Camaro: 2.66 (1st) 1.78 (2nd) 1.30 (3rd) 1.00 (4th) 0.74 (5th) 0.50 (6th) 3.42 final drive

As you can see, we actually have slightly shorter gears, with the exception of our disgustingly tall 4th & 5th gear ratios, which are still shorter given the the lower (numerically higher) final drive (3.90 vs 3.42). Just a quick bit of info, as gearing is another factor to consider.
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Old 10-10-2005, 08:12 PM   #18
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True, but let's not muddy the water any more than we already have.
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Old 10-10-2005, 08:59 PM   #19
Finn McCool
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sean10mm
I wouldn't want to straight-line race a 4th generation Camaro. The LT-1 versions were rated between 275-305 HP. The LS-1 versions were rated anywhere from 305-320 HP. Oh, and they all deliver 320-340 ft-lbs of torque. Even a Cobb Stage 2 isn't really going to match those numbers (certainly not the V8 torque curve), you are going to be counting on AWD and less weight to even the odds, so if you aren't racing from a dead stop, you are probably always hosed in a straight line unless the Camaro driver screws up.
My LS1 came stock with 345hp and 350tq but that's really only on paper. Most LS1s will dyno the same with the exception of the 01-02's which dyno higher due to higher flowing exhaust, better intake and better cam.

My LS1 went 12.34 @114 mph with just bolt-ons. It also made 365 rwhp with just bolt ons. With ported heads and a big cam it made 437 RWHP and 404 RWTQ.

You stand a good chance taking a stock LT1 with a stage 2 WRX, a stock LS1 would be pushing it. If the LS1 had any mods whatsoever (or a good driver in a 6 speed car) it wouldn't be any contest at all.
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Old 10-10-2005, 09:04 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn McCool
My LS1 came stock with 345hp and 350tq but that's really only on paper. Most LS1s will dyno the same with the exception of the 01-02's which dyno higher due to higher flowing exhaust, better intake and better cam.

My LS1 went 12.34 @114 mph with just bolt-ons. It also made 365 rwhp with just bolt ons. With ported heads and a big cam it made 437 RWHP and 404 RWTQ.

You stand a good chance taking a stock LT1 with a stage 2 WRX, a stock LS1 would be pushing it. If the LS1 had any mods whatsoever (or a good driver in a 6 speed car) it wouldn't be any contest at all.
no replacement for displacement

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Old 10-10-2005, 09:38 PM   #21
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My FXT will beat any stage 2 WRX and many STIs. It doesn't have a chance against my big, heavy GTO and I give it a headstart.
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Old 10-10-2005, 09:43 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Balr14
My FXT will beat any stage 2 WRX and many STIs. It doesn't have a chance against my big, heavy GTO and I give it a headstart.
So your stock FXT runs 13.3-13.5? Any slips to back that up?

Cause last time I checked, it takes a stage II FXT to honestly run 99+ in the 1/4 and a mid 13. Which is what you'd have to do. No doubt an FXT hands it to a stock WRX, but a stage II, not if your stock (or he's at 3k RPMS )...no way.

And you can't really compare your GTO to a 285 horse LT1. Your car is a beast compared to an older LT1...apples to oranges...I don't know what you think thats telling us.

Last edited by REX8; 10-10-2005 at 09:53 PM.
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Old 10-10-2005, 09:44 PM   #23
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That's cool man, what does your FXT run in the 1/4 mile? Is your GTO an 05? If so, didn't they bump the power up to 400hp in 05? I would expect the 400hp RWD car to beat the 230hp AWD wagon/SUV
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Old 10-10-2005, 09:54 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roninsoldier83
That's cool man, what does your FXT run in the 1/4 mile? Is your GTO an 05? If so, didn't they bump the power up to 400hp in 05? I would expect the 400hp RWD car to beat the 230hp AWD wagon/SUV
My FXT runs high 12s. It already has good weight transfer and gearing. Just needed a better turbo setup. My GTO is technically an LS2, but I can't tell you what the difference is between it and an LS1, except a few more CIs. It's got a more mods than the FXT, but they are smaller, cheaper mods.

I'm just pointing out that you don't see many stock LT1, LS1, LS2 engined muscle cars. Even my old 96 TA had a supercharger. For every dollar you spend making a Subaru 4 go fast, I can spend 40 cents and get just as much power in my muscle car. Plus, it will be very hard to break and mods won't have much effect on resale value.
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Old 10-10-2005, 09:55 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ewright
no replacement for displacement

ernie
Tru dat. Cant wait to get a accessport or a utec and be the wagon with the big balls. (Bigger injectors, bigger fuel pump, bigger turbo )
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