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Old 10-31-2005, 02:32 PM   #76
merlot
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I just stopped at the local Suby dealer near my work to pick up an oil filter, and the service rep had 3 cases in front of him while on the phone with Subaru trying to determine if it was the bad batch. They just found out about the filters. They didn't seem too thrilled when I told them I knew of this over 2 weeks ago (thanks to this thread).

Needless to say, I walked away empty handed since I didn't have all day to wait for them to sort the problem out. Hopefully I'll have a filter by this weekend; coming up on 75k miles.
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Old 10-31-2005, 06:24 PM   #77
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[quote=shemoves]Hmm, this just made me think, I wonder if the pressure is different 'tween the old black ones and the new white ones.

As I mentioned in a previous post, there was no discernable pressure relief valve (PRV) in the white 09A filter that I installed. Read: It was literally missing in action. The black 100 filter had a PRV sitting squarely in the center of the bore. So the pressure difference should be exactly whatever the 100 series is capable of delivering since the white one has no restriction

FWIW - There's three times that a filter relief valve should open:
  1. When you start a cold motor. The oil is thick and cannot pass easily through the filter so you develop a high pressure differential. The PRV opens to prevent oil-starvation of the motor.
  2. When the motor is fully warmed. At idle, normal oil pressure is about 15 to 20 psi, and the pressure differential across the filter is about 1 or 2 psi. As you take off, and if you wind up the motor toward redline, you quickly build oil pressure to the 70 to 80 psi range. During that full-throttle acceleration the pressure differntial across the filter will exceed the PRV's relief parameters, sending unfiltered oil to the motor until the pressure across the filter has time to equalize.
  3. When a filter becomes clogged. The PRV's opening is the only way to keep the motor from becoming oil-starved if the filter becomes clogged.
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Old 10-31-2005, 10:05 PM   #78
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well the first leaky come-back arrived at my dealer today, batch #F08, oil all over the undercover. we are having problems getting enough good filters too. this is a crappy problem it makes us look bad. people don't understand why the dealer "can't get an oil change right"

Jerry
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Old 10-31-2005, 11:02 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Subietonic
FWIW - There's three times that a filter relief valve should open:
  1. When you start a cold motor. The oil is thick and cannot pass easily through the filter so you develop a high pressure differential. The PRV opens to prevent oil-starvation of the motor.
  2. When the motor is fully warmed. At idle, normal oil pressure is about 15 to 20 psi, and the pressure differential across the filter is about 1 or 2 psi. As you take off, and if you wind up the motor toward redline, you quickly build oil pressure to the 70 to 80 psi range. During that full-throttle acceleration the pressure differntial across the filter will exceed the PRV's relief parameters, sending unfiltered oil to the motor until the pressure across the filter has time to equalize.
  3. When a filter becomes clogged. The PRV's opening is the only way to keep the motor from becoming oil-starved if the filter becomes clogged.
Perhaps my oil guage is innaccurate, but my oil pressure (when warm) really only seems to see two pressures (with very little movement)...low at idle and high under any throttle. As soon as I use any throttle, it jumps up and just kinda stays at the same level no matter what kind of load its under. It does measure in hkpa in thousands, so perhaps I just can't see the movement 'cause I've only got "0-8."
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Old 11-02-2005, 10:29 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shemoves
Fair enough. I have no idea what the pressure is on the oem...what is it on the PureOne? Perhaps someone knows what the OEM bypass PSI is...? Hmm, this just made me think, I wonder if the pressure is different 'tween the old black ones and the new white ones.

Rexygirl...would you happen to have a link where we could look at the research (on related info) Subaru did?

I suspect Rexygirl will be posting no such info. Basically..yeah. It looks identical to the OEM filter (the purolator, that is). You are fine using it. I see no bypass valve in the oem filter.....
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Old 11-02-2005, 10:54 AM   #81
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Just FYI, I got a F10 batch from my dealer, Subaru of Dallas, who indicated it was part of the 'good' batch they received. I installed it yesterday and as a precaution I havn't installed the belly cover. I haven't noticed any seepage whatsoever, so perhaps not all F10 batch filters are effected? The dealer indicated that the filters he sold me were not part of the recall.
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Old 11-02-2005, 11:18 AM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timmah
I'm not one to just listen to word of mouth. Show me the hard proof, and I'll accept it :-)

Thanks
Find as many people as you can that own a Subaru, doesn't matter year or model..(older ones are better). Ask them if they have ever had to replace their front engine seals. If so, ask them where they got their oil changes done the majority of times and what kind of filter was used. I would bet that 95% of the people with front engine seal problems have hardly ever used a Subaru filter.

As far as paper research, I will have to see if I can come across some.
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Old 11-02-2005, 11:40 AM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rexygirl
Find as many people as you can that own a Subaru, doesn't matter year or model..(older ones are better). Ask them if they have ever had to replace their front engine seals. If so, ask them where they got their oil changes done the majority of times and what kind of filter was used. I would bet that 95% of the people with front engine seal problems have hardly ever used a Subaru filter.

As far as paper research, I will have to see if I can come across some.

All I am asking for is the bypass pressure for the OEM filter for the WRX. Should be fairly easy for someone in your position (I assume you work at a dealership or something) to find.

I unfortunately don't know many people with subarus. And even then, it'd still be word of mouth.
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Old 11-02-2005, 12:04 PM   #84
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I understand the desire to have it "on paper," but if I hear enough people talk about the same thing, at different times, in different places, under different circumstances, I tend to lean toward it being true.

And although purolator may make Subarus filters, that does not mean they are the same as the ones they sell independently.
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Old 11-02-2005, 12:23 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shemoves
I understand the desire to have it "on paper," but if I hear enough people talk about the same thing, at different times, in different places, under different circumstances, I tend to lean toward it being true.

And although purolator may make Subarus filters, that does not mean they are the same as the ones they sell independently.
Yet, the exact reason for the need for it "on paper" is because I have heard plenty of people talking about how the new subaru filter is in fact made by purolater and surprisingly, looks exactly like it. Many, MANY manufacturers buy 3rd party products and rebadge them. Volvo does this..we can get a filter for our diesel engine for 50 from volvo or 30 from Wix....they are both made by Wix.

A lot of stupid people think those Turbonators work, but they really don't.....and they don't believe it until they see it in writing.

I'm really not trying to be a pain, honestly.
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Old 11-02-2005, 12:33 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timmah
I'm really not trying to be a pain, honestly.
I don't think that. Just from experience, hearing it from the Subaru rep, that used to be a parts depot person for the main warehouse for Subaru, and other people that work for Subaru, it is known to be true. Sure, there are failures out there on the front engine seals for other reasons, but the majority of them have to due with the speed the oil flows thru the filter, thus, over time, blowing out the seals. Will it damage your engine? Only if you let it run low on oil, otherwise, you will just have an oil leak

Still trying to look for information on both subjects "on paper"
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Old 11-02-2005, 01:25 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rexygirl
I don't think that. Just from experience, hearing it from the Subaru rep, that used to be a parts depot person for the main warehouse for Subaru, and other people that work for Subaru, it is known to be true. Sure, there are failures out there on the front engine seals for other reasons, but the majority of them have to due with the speed the oil flows thru the filter, thus, over time, blowing out the seals. Will it damage your engine? Only if you let it run low on oil, otherwise, you will just have an oil leak

Still trying to look for information on both subjects "on paper"
Rexy, it's really appreciated, and I thank you.
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Old 11-02-2005, 11:31 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drews_WRX
well, not really.....as Jamie has not posted the serial numbers from the "new" shipment from subaru. Maybe the new shipment is F10 as well, just different numbers at the end....

food for thought.
Okay, this is getting interesting...I had the same experience as Drews_WRX. Went to the local dealership (Downtown Subaru in Oakland) a few weeks ago to pick up a 100 if they had it. They told me they didn't have that one...only the 09A, and they were out of stock because they had just sent out all they had in stock to Subaru for a recall. Told me to come back in a couple of days and they should either have the 100 or the replacement 09A. Went back three days later and asked if they had the 100. The guy comes back with the 09A. I told him I thought they were recalled and he told me these were the replacements.

After reading through this thread, I checked the lot number at it's F10R05E1. I might take them back to the dealer tomorrow and see if I can get a straight answer about which ones are okay.
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Old 11-03-2005, 12:05 AM   #89
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09A is the correct oil filter

we did get some new ones in

F10-something-something was the serial number

we have to trust that these filters are good to install
subaru would not re-ship out the 'bad' filters

apparently all of the 'defective' filters have been returned....

the new 15208AA09A's should be available now, and again,
our first batch did start with F10....

Jamie
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Old 11-03-2005, 08:22 AM   #90
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It would be good if we could get a definative answer from Subaru themselves. Can anyone call them and ask specifically what serial number the good ones start at? First it was all F8-F10's, now it's partial F10's. I have an F10 that I'm taking back this morning so I'll try to get the right answer if possible from my dealer. Why did Subaru ever change to these crap filters. I swear... everything "Made in the USA" sucks ass.
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Old 11-03-2005, 11:25 AM   #91
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subaru has not released specific serial numbers

i'm doing my best to keep you guys posted


i will examine serial numbers on our good filters later today

hopefully soon this will all be a memory....

Jamie
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Old 11-03-2005, 12:39 PM   #92
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It already is a memory...a bad one
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Old 11-03-2005, 01:40 PM   #93
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okay guys

latest filters we have has this serial number on it

these are the g o o d filters


F10R25E1


Hope this helps gang...
Jamie
www.subiegal.com
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Old 11-03-2005, 03:08 PM   #94
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Subietonic (and others)

You seem knowledgable on this pressure relief valve thing; where'd you get your info? Furthermore, why would Subaru replace a filter that had one (100), w/out one, if it can damage engine seals over time?

Anyone?
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Old 11-03-2005, 04:25 PM   #95
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Jamie:

Do you offer the six pack o' turbo filters anymore? I can't find them on your site (only can find the non-turbo ones).

Thank you for keeping us all informed.
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Old 11-03-2005, 05:32 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MSD
Subietonic (and others)

You seem knowledgable on this pressure relief valve thing; where'd you get your info? Furthermore, why would Subaru replace a filter that had one (100), w/out one, if it can damage engine seals over time?

Anyone?

My question exactly! I'd much rather use the 100 version with the PRV than one without.
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Old 11-03-2005, 07:18 PM   #97
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I can't believe that any Subaru oil filter doesn't include a high-pressure bypass feature. Just because one person said they didn't see one doesn't mean they don't have one; not all are visible without disassembling the filter.
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Old 11-03-2005, 08:01 PM   #98
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I went filter shopping today and all the ones I picked up Mobil1, K&N, ACDelco, Bosch and they all had the spring inside. I can't remember if the Fram one did or not, but the others definatly did. From all the ones I could see the Mobil1 M1-108 filter for the WRX was the only one that had the wide "round" rubber seal at the bottom that was close to the Subaru 100 filters. All the other ones had the flat seal that I consider cheap. I'm going to check out the Wix and Purolator ones tomorrow, but as of right now I'm seriously leaning towards the Mobil1 until I can find a source for the Subaru 100 filters. BTW, this is another SoA choice/change. No other country is switching filters including Japan. They all use the Subaru 100 filters. Apperently SoA is all about being cheap more and more these days. Hey SoA, I have an idea... why don't u just build the cars that get sold in America in Mexico... like you did with the 5 speed trannies in the WRX. Stupid LAMOS!
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Old 11-03-2005, 09:16 PM   #99
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I've been changing oil filters for over 40 years. I know where to look for a by-pass valve/pressure relief valve and what to look for. All I can tell you is that when I picked up the 09A filter from the dealership, the parts guy said that the number had been changed (100 to 09A) and that Subaru had taken the PRV out of the 09A filter. I asked him why he said that and he indicated that several people had commented about it when they picked it up.

Seems some owners were surprised at the size difference (longer and narrower) and popped it out of the box, turned it over so they could look it over and commented that the PRV was missing. Sure enough, it was missing. When he told me that, I immediately took the filter out of the box and looked it over, looking both for the bore-centered and/or for a bottom-fixed PRV. Nothing. I asked him why it had no PRV and he told me that Subaru had switched mfgrs and that's the way they were being made now.

Anyway, when I took my old filter out (100) and after I emptied it out, I looked it over pretty carefully and yes there was a PRV dead center in the bore just like God intended. Took out the 09A and held them both up side-by-side and you could see all the way to the bottom of the 09A bore and there was nothing there ~15mm of open flow all the way to the bottom.

So, to answer the previous poster's comment, I and several other turbo-motored Subaru owners have seen the same thing... it's not just my old eyes playing tricks on me.
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Old 11-03-2005, 10:54 PM   #100
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I so want to buy an extra one and take it appart. I looked at the inside again of the new 09A and it almost looks like there is some sort of valve in at the bottom, but you just can't see the spring. It's almost like the PRV is inverted or something. Take a look at the inside and you'll see that the center is fastened in the middle. Could it be that the PRV is still there, but in a different design? I don't know... I'm not an oil filter guy, but I can tell you that the thing that bothers me the most about the new 09A filters is the wimpy gasket... it's almost 1/2 the size in diameter then the ones on the 100 filters. Anyway, someone that has an extra one and a filter cutter... cut this thing open and let's see what's up with it. I'm installing mine tomorrow because I can't get my hands on a 100 anytime soon and I just don't trust retail oil filters over OEM ones.
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