Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Friday July 25, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Engine Management & Tuning

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-01-2005, 01:38 PM   #26
Freon
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 88322
Join Date: Jun 2005
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Vehicle:
2009 BMW 135i

Default

Quick update. On a cold start, the car idles at 1400rpm or so. When it does this, it also cycles the solenoid constantly. I'm not sure why it does this. Maybe it is to warm up the solenoid as well in cold weather.

With the way I have it mounted, even with the rubber grommet, the new solenoid is louder than the stock piece. I can't hear it with the stereo on or even when cruising above 40mph, but it did scare me for a minute when I first started up my car and I heard the clicking noise. For a minute I thought my engine developed a new tick. I quickly found out it wasn't RPM depedent, though, and tracked it back down to the solenoid. Just something to keep in mind if you hear a new ticking noise from your car. All the more reason to mount it directly to a chassis bolt when first running it, you'll get used to how it sounds.

I'm glad people are finding this thread useful. It really does seem like a great, simple, effective DIY mod.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Freon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2005, 01:04 AM   #27
Dave_MacKinnon
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 10823
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Burlington, Ontario
Vehicle:
2007 STi
Silver

Default

And the timing of this is SO perfect.. We were out trying to make some controllable boost on my new stage 4 / AEM EMS setup and decided we hated the stock solenoid.. I'll go shopping for this tomorrow - thanks to everyone!

OK, thought I'd add this:

GMC Syclone Boost Control Solenoid - $26.45 Canadian
Wiring pigtail - $37.55

Who charges that kind of money for a hink of wire and a plastic connector? Anyways... I'll have mine tomorrow...

Thanks again gang...

Last edited by Dave_MacKinnon; 11-02-2005 at 10:42 AM.
Dave_MacKinnon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2005, 09:14 AM   #28
Steve E
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 300
Join Date: Sep 1999
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: New Milford,CT US
Vehicle:
2002 WRX
Aspen White

Default

Dragging this back up...

I have been dealing with fluctuating boost due to weather with the stock BCS for long enough so I bought one of the GM solenoids.

I installed it with the 10 ohm resistor and new vacuum line. My boost was spiky and wavy while at the same time, I had values of 450 in my UTEC and could hardly hit 1 bar on my VF30.

I installed the Vacu-Tite vacuum restrictor and that helped the fluctuation and spikes and peak boost a lot. Now, I have values of 425 and am hitting 18psi with fast spool, and little spiking. The bad part is that is is still a little wavy. I can see up to a 2psi fluctuation.

My boost gain is at 75 now (highest value I've ever run) and its getting better but I feel like I am running our of room (boost values high and gain high). I am going to try a gain value of 80 but this seems silly...

Anyone else experience this? Any suggestions?
Steve E is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2005, 09:30 AM   #29
ride5000
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 32792
Join Date: Feb 2003
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: lincoln, ri
Vehicle:
2003 GGA MBP
12.9 / 105+

Default

the boost "gain" is counterintuitive.

raising the number actually makes the boost lower, more stable and slower to react.

conversely lowering it makes it higher, a little more touchy, and quicker to react.

did you raise it to increase stability?

are you sure you need the restrictor? where did you place it in the plumbing?

is the plumbing short and direct and free of kinks, etc?
ride5000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2005, 09:38 AM   #30
Steve E
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 300
Join Date: Sep 1999
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: New Milford,CT US
Vehicle:
2002 WRX
Aspen White

Default

Yes, I understand how the gain works. I started at 50 and have been working my way towards more stable boost, now I am at 75. The reaction time at 75 is still very good (suprisingly).

Without the restrictor, my issues were way worse.

The restrictor is between the turbo outlet and the BCS.

Plumbing is as short as it can be and I am pretty sure it is free of kinks (I should check that).

Like I said, I think I can get what I want but my setting and experiences seem to be a lot different than most (but similar to some)...
Steve E is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2005, 10:39 AM   #31
Steve E
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 300
Join Date: Sep 1999
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: New Milford,CT US
Vehicle:
2002 WRX
Aspen White

Default

Well, I learned a lot over the past couple days.

1. Very strange things happen when the boost gain is raised to very high (70-80) levels on the UTEC. Boost flutctuates like crazy.

2. The GM solenoid is VERY sensitive. Making small changes to boost gain means you have to make changes to your boost map as well. This was somewhat the case with the stock solenoid, but the GM is sensitive.

3. The GM solenoid is awesome and provides incredible boost control, if properly setup.

What worked for me:

GM Solenoid installed with new vacuum line (interrupt mode)
10 ohm 1W resistor
Vacu-tite vacuum restrictor between the turbo outlet and the BCS
UTEC boost gain value of 50 (I think I can go lower)
UTEC boost map value of 290 in the entire 100% column for 18psi (I had to fluctuate values with the stock BCS to get steady boost so this is nice)

What did not work for me:

No vacuum restrictor. Big spikes and fluctuating boost.
Boost gain values greater than 60. I got very unstable boost with high values, which is strange (at least on the stock BCS). It seems the GM one is so much more responsive, if you give it a chance to work quickly, it performs very well.

Some notes:

With a boost gain value of 50, my boost curve climbs quickly up to 18psi and STOPS. It then holds 18psi in a perfectly straight line (I have never seen this in Data Log lab before!) for a couple thousand RPM then slowly climbs to 19 psi after 5000 rpm. I think I have to slightly decrease my boost map values after 5K. The stability of boost is incredible!

Thumbs up in my book but you need to be careful tuning it, it is very picky.
Steve E is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2005, 12:57 PM   #32
TheMadScientist
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 23717
Join Date: Aug 2002
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Beverly, MA
Vehicle:
2005 Big red

Default

Just curoius what size vacume line did you use?

TMS
TheMadScientist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2005, 09:03 PM   #33
Steve E
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 300
Join Date: Sep 1999
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: New Milford,CT US
Vehicle:
2002 WRX
Aspen White

Default

your typical vacuum line... maybe 1/8" ID?
Steve E is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2005, 03:17 PM   #34
mpower22
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 58352
Join Date: Mar 2004
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Vehicle:
04 20G STI(SOLD)
08 z51C6 (growing mullet)

Default

Installed this part with a new tune by jorge this weekend...great part....no more spiking...smooth boost...spools the turbo a little faster and holds boost to redline..the slight negative is the ticking noise...call me a sally but is there any material that can be used to muffle the noise?
mpower22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2005, 05:50 PM   #35
Dave_MacKinnon
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 10823
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Burlington, Ontario
Vehicle:
2007 STi
Silver

Default

Weird - mine is completely silent - no vibration even when it's held in my hand... I am running it a 31Hz...
Dave_MacKinnon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2005, 08:16 AM   #36
mpower22
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 58352
Join Date: Mar 2004
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Vehicle:
04 20G STI(SOLD)
08 z51C6 (growing mullet)

Default

very stange.....mine clicks under just about any throttle...hhmmm wondering if any isolation could work?
mpower22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2005, 10:45 AM   #37
fmowry
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 54604
Join Date: Feb 2004
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Severn, MD
Vehicle:
2004 FXT
Cayenne Red (sold)

Default

Mine was ticking like a biatch when I left the dyno day too. Of course I wasn't even getting into boost more than 1-2psi.

Frank
fmowry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2005, 11:43 AM   #38
RiftsWRX
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 6124
Join Date: Apr 2001
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Glendale Hts, IL, USA
Vehicle:
2000 NFR AP1 S2000
'07 Honda FIT sport (5MT)

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fmowry
Mine was ticking like a biatch when I left the dyno day too. Of course I wasn't even getting into boost more than 1-2psi.

Frank
Could simply be where it's mounted. Move it to the bracket itself, vs the bolt that the holds the bracket to the strut tower, and give it a go. Ya'll could have coincidently gotten some weird solenoids. Though. I HAVE had a handful of other people complain about the noise. I think it's more where you mount it.

FWIW, it's no different then what you get on something like an AVCR, etc.

Jorge (RiftsWRX)
www.ProjectWRX.com
RiftsWRX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2005, 12:04 PM   #39
mpower22
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 58352
Join Date: Mar 2004
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Vehicle:
04 20G STI(SOLD)
08 z51C6 (growing mullet)

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiftsWRX
I think it's more where you mount it.

FWIW, it's no different then what you get on something like an AVCR, etc.

Jorge (RiftsWRX)
www.ProjectWRX.com

I figured its as much.....considering it was setup more to just run than a 100% custom install.....and you help was apperciated with the install....this weekend I will move it over under the "bracket shield". Is the noise caused by passing vibration to the body or is it internal mechanicals in the peice making the noise.....its not that big of a deal....come spring I can play with something to isolate it....
mpower22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2005, 12:11 PM   #40
RiftsWRX
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 6124
Join Date: Apr 2001
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Glendale Hts, IL, USA
Vehicle:
2000 NFR AP1 S2000
'07 Honda FIT sport (5MT)

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mpower22
I figured its as much.....considering it was setup more to just run than a 100% custom install.....and you help was apperciated with the install....this weekend I will move it over under the "bracket shield". Is the noise caused by passing vibration to the body or is it internal mechanicals in the peice making the noise.....its not that big of a deal....come spring I can play with something to isolate it....
It's vibration being passed through.
RiftsWRX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2005, 01:18 PM   #41
fliz
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 30342
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: #blp
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiftsWRX
Yep, we're pretty much making these mandatory installs since we found out that Subaru superceeded the parts for the restrictor pill.

The 02-04 pills allowed for pretty good boost control (thus why I had never needed it), but now, if it's an '05, or one who lost their pill, we simply just install these and tune them.

SOOOO much simpler in the end now.

... and yes, I was one of the biggest proponents against needing these, but now it's kinda worked out in the end.

Great write up!

Jorge (RiftsWRX)
www.ProjectWRX.com
So, if I were planning on coming to you for a protune for a VF34 setup on my '02, will I see better spoolup with the GM solenoid installed?

BTW..I AM planning on scheduling a tune at P&L after I install the turbo...
fliz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2006, 01:14 PM   #42
earlmale
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 47551
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: ardmore, pa
Vehicle:
04 wrx wagon
jbp

Default

i hooked mine up and it sounds like a woodpecker. is this supposed to be the case? i'm getting tuned this coming week, but i just tried it out w/ my eye on the boost gauge to see. it's mounted in a temporary location now, so it's not isolated @ all.

when it's tuned though, will it not be so loud and annoying?
earlmale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2006, 03:44 PM   #43
bboy
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 56468
Join Date: Mar 2004
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Seattle, WA
Vehicle:
04 Improved STI
Dirty White

Default

Yes it's kind of noisy. I didn't mount it (except by suspending it with it's hoses). That worked pretty well.
bboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2006, 04:11 PM   #44
earlmale
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 47551
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: ardmore, pa
Vehicle:
04 wrx wagon
jbp

Default

so it constantly clicks like that in normal operation? i thought that it would make a single click when opening or closing... hmmmmmmmm
earlmale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2006, 04:27 PM   #45
Freon
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 88322
Join Date: Jun 2005
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Vehicle:
2009 BMW 135i

Default

Tuning will not have any notable bearing on the loudness of the solenoid.

You can see where I had mine temporarily, then I mounted it permanently in the stock spot. It was really loud in the temp spot, but I can still hear it in the stock location. I think it is just louder, but you may be able to lessen it if you can put some more rubber isolators on it or get creative.

It should start clicking just as you touch the accelerator. It may stop clicking briefly if you floor it from a vacuum at < 3500rpm as well.
Freon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2006, 07:00 AM   #46
WR^2X
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 37617
Join Date: May 2003
Vehicle:
2007

Default

So can you install the GM BCS on an otherwise stock car? Is the stock ECU smart enough to handle it? I've got a UTEC, but I switch back and forth between stock mode and stage I. I won't be getting my car tuned until early April, when my stage IV setup goes in.
WR^2X is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2006, 08:49 AM   #47
earlmale
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 47551
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: ardmore, pa
Vehicle:
04 wrx wagon
jbp

Default

you need tuning to run it. i wouldn't run it on a stock ecu. i just put it in to try it out to make sure that i hooked it up correctly. i only let the car boost a little bit- 5psi or so, then i let off the gas. other posts say that the car will overboost- so not safe.
earlmale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2006, 08:51 AM   #48
WR^2X
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 37617
Join Date: May 2003
Vehicle:
2007

Default

That's what I figured, since the UTEC needs so many changes made to the boost maps and parameters. But I know in some ways the stock ECU is smarter than the UTEC, so I figured I'd make sure. Hmmm... I guess I will wait on installing it then. I went out yesterday and bought vacuum tubing and soldered a 10 ohm resistor into the positive lead on the pigtail, but the BCS will just have to sit in the basement with the rest of my new parts.
WR^2X is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2006, 01:17 PM   #49
Freon
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 88322
Join Date: Jun 2005
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Vehicle:
2009 BMW 135i

Default

From the previous threads I had scanned before I started this one, you *MAY* be able put it on a stock flashed car safely, but definitely NOT a Cobb or Ecutek flashed car. Due to the more agressive WG duty cycle maps, I would assume, you will overboost or have spiking problems. That information was posted by reflash users, so I included the warning that you must retune.

I have run my car with the boost solenoid on a factory/stock flash and it runs fine. I seem to get a lot less boost, though, like 11-12psi. With the factory solenoid I'd actually get more boost, like 13-14. I'm not sure why I'd get less, but that's what I saw and I have logs of the behavior. The new solenoid certainly did not help spool or anything with the stock reflash. But it DID help a noticable amount with my UTEC. The spool and performance difference between the UTEC and stock mode is huge.

YMMV. I would watch your boost gauge no matter what.
Freon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2006, 02:24 PM   #50
mpower22
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 58352
Join Date: Mar 2004
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Vehicle:
04 20G STI(SOLD)
08 z51C6 (growing mullet)

Default

could this thing be mounted via a zip tie for more quiet operation?
mpower22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
DIY: Bypass Nav '08 (56k Warning) snwbdr94 Car Audio, Video & Security 18 03-02-2008 05:13 PM
Turbo XS Gasket Damaged? (a few large pics; 56K warning) lethal.adv Factory 2.0L Turbo Powertrain 2 03-24-2006 07:13 PM
thread link to gm solenoid boost install moorebl Engine Management & Tuning 0 08-30-2005 02:33 PM
NASA AutoX Pics 5-23-04 (heavy 56K warning) InfamousDX Tri-State Area Forum 20 05-24-2004 11:52 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:47 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.