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Old 10-28-2005, 03:17 PM   #1
Snowphun
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Default Has anyone done the fuel rail fix to eliminate the cold weather fuel smell?

I gave SOA one last chance to assist me with this issue (covered in TSB 09-36-03), and they merrily declined, so I've ordered the two replacement parts and am going to do the repair myself. I understand the intake manifold needs to come off (along with many other items), but I haven't read of many people who have done this themselves. Anyone have any input into the procedure and issue to take note of, or a link to a step by step?

Thanks,
Paul
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Old 10-28-2005, 07:23 PM   #2
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Did someone ask for instructions on removing the intake manifold? I'm sure this will help. These are not specific directions on how to R&R the intake manifold, but if you read through these, you will see how it's done. Pictures always help and these have plenty.

http://www.northursalia.com/ Go to modifications/series to parallel fuel delivery

http://www.projectwrx.com/modules.ph...howpage&pid=30

It is time consuming. Figure a good 5 hours the first time around. Takes time to find all the parts, put them back in all the right places, etc. Gets a lot faster the 2nd time, if you paid attention the 1st time.
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Old 10-28-2005, 07:27 PM   #3
Rick Schu
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I was going to do the fix, but decided to install Perrin fuel rails instead, but I did remove the intake manifold to do so. The removal of the manifold is PITA - Subaru runs like a bunch of coolant lines, wiring harnesses, vacuum lines, etc throughout the manifold. Definitely not something I would want to do again. Not hard, just a lot of steps.

Since you already bought the parts - the actual replacement of the lines, once you get the manifold off, would be easy. I would find the factory manual description of removing the manifold. You will need 2 new gaskets as well. I elected to not remove the power steering pump as the manual says. Instead, I removed and covered the PS hard line. I also ended up having to remove the alternator to get to some of the electrical connectors on the block.

You may also want to look at getting a turbo inlet hose. With the manifold off, it is cake to replace this. Also, if you are planning on upgrading the turbo/injectors soon anyway, you may want to do this as the same time, as it super easy to change the injectors with the manifold off.
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Old 10-28-2005, 07:33 PM   #4
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SOA won't do it?!? Can you get a new dealer? I assume you've escalated your complaint as high as it can go (District Manager etc...) and they still say no?
Unbelievable. My 02 WRX sedan had the problem...fixed no problem. What's their rationale for denying you? Too many miles?
I wouldn't pay one cent for a repair on that...you CAN get satisfaction from the dealer, you just have to ask/tell the right people. Don't go quietly!!
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Old 10-28-2005, 07:45 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 02WHITEDUB
SOA won't do it?!? Can you get a new dealer? I assume you've escalated your complaint as high as it can go (District Manager etc...) and they still say no?
Unbelievable. My 02 WRX sedan had the problem...fixed no problem. What's their rationale for denying you? Too many miles?
I wouldn't pay one cent for a repair on that...you CAN get satisfaction from the dealer, you just have to ask/tell the right people. Don't go quietly!!
The fuel lines are only covered by the new car warranty (3yrs/36Kmiles), unless you're covered by a California emission control system warranty, which bumps the mileage out to 50K miles. I doubt any 2002 WRXes have warranty coverage for this repair.
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Old 10-28-2005, 08:45 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon [in CT]
The fuel lines are only covered by the new car warranty (3yrs/36Kmiles), unless you're covered by a California emission control system warranty, which bumps the mileage out to 50K miles. I doubt any 2002 WRXes have warranty coverage for this repair.
I was under the impression that a TSB was like an 'Unadvertised Recall.'
They don't send out letters to owners, but if you come in with that problem, they will honour the claim for X amount of years/miles.
Don't know where I heard this though...

*edit* I just looked at the poster and your member #'s. I presume that you would know more about this issue than I...
No sarcasm intended
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Old 10-28-2005, 08:56 PM   #7
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i suffered from that problem last winter in my 02 wrx. i paid a very reputable mechanic where I live to change it. costed me about $300 for parts and labor.
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Old 10-28-2005, 09:27 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 02WHITEDUB
I was under the impression that a TSB was like an 'Unadvertised Recall.'
They don't send out letters to owners, but if you come in with that problem, they will honour the claim for X amount of years/miles.
Don't know where I heard this though...
You heard wrong.

Although this is a pervasive problem in the northern tier of the US and was investigated half-heartedly by NHTSA (see http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=809673), there is no automatic warranty coverage, beyond that described in your Warranty and Maintenance booklet.
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Old 10-28-2005, 09:29 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 02WHITEDUB
I was under the impression that a TSB was like an 'Unadvertised Recall.'
They don't send out letters to owners, but if you come in with that problem, they will honour the claim for X amount of years/miles.
Don't know where I heard this though...
You heard wrong.

Although this is a pervasive problem in the northern tier of the US and was investigated half-heartedly by NHTSA (see http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=809673), there is no automatic warranty coverage, beyond that described in your Warranty and Maintenance booklet.

Subaru is even alerting independent Subaru repair shops about the problem because they'll see more off-warranty WRXes with the problem (see http://endwrench.com/main.php?smPID=...php&&RECID=363).
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Old 10-28-2005, 10:33 PM   #10
02WHITEDUB
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Bummer...

You'd think that a company (doesn't have to be Subaru)could stand up and say "We sure scewed up that part, they're all breaking!" And fix it indefinitely...Want customer loyalty? That couldn't hurt.
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Old 10-28-2005, 10:45 PM   #11
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Small hijack here, but well intended.

My car's driver door window went snap CLUNK one day last winter (thank God it was 1/2" from the top.) I was a bit past my warranty on time and mileage. After calling SOC I saw my dealer for a fix. I told them that when you Google 'WRX window broken' you get a ton of accounts of the motor shaking loose and stretching the panel around it. I said that they must have known about it from previous experience or internal info.
As well, my window was tracking like crap since I bought it. My dealer had seen it 2 times and hadn't said 'You're window will break if you don't fix it.' So, the District Manager + the dealer (Rally Subaru ) decided to pay for the fix at a cost of $750! They were very professional about the whole thing...not much grovelling required I'd only been there 2 times ever, but will always go back
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Old 10-29-2005, 12:15 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 02WHITEDUB
...
As well, my window was tracking like crap since I bought it. My dealer had seen it 2 times and hadn't said 'You're window will break if you don't fix it.' So, the District Manager + the dealer (Rally Subaru ) decided to pay for the fix at a cost of $750! They were very professional about the whole thing...not much grovelling required I'd only been there 2 times ever, but will always go back
The actions of SCI up in Canada have no bearing on SOA interpretations in the US.
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Old 10-29-2005, 07:51 AM   #13
Vlad
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Back to the question at hand: Has someone done the cold fuel leak fix.
Yes, I have done it myself.
Same situation has happened to me with SOA. When the gas starts to really really leak in there, you want to do something about it.
There are posts about sliding a thin screwriver and tightening the hoses. I did that my first winter and that only helped time and the warranty go away. The second winter (bought my 02 used) the leak came back worse than ever.
The Subaru Factory repair manual is a good thing to have and it's interesting to read.
When you read the factory procedure, you will notice that Subaru Engineers designed that whole mess around the intake manifold to actually come out in a structured way.
Their design:
a) Don't try to separate the Manifold from the TGV, they come out together with the assembly
b) Don't touch the injectors or their rails, they come out with the assembly
c) Don't touch "the green brackets of death" that shield the injectors, they come out with the assembly.
d) Don't touch the intake tube, it comes out with the whole assembly

Basically, this whole big, intricate assembly comes out in one piece.

The steel conduits are bolted to the underside of the intake manifold. In a piece of dubious design, they sandwich the fuel conduit between Manifold (uptop) and electric conductors (bottom), soooo, this leak is really not the greatest news.
When I went to put things back I was really concerned that it will be a nightmare, that I will never be able to allign everything. That was not the case.
The real test is this upcoming winter. Let's see how long the fix lasts.

Look, let me do this for you guys. Let me write one more post, loosely indicating the major steps in the work, ok?
Vlad

Last edited by Vlad; 10-29-2005 at 10:18 AM.
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Old 10-29-2005, 08:34 AM   #14
Vlad
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Disclaimer first:

Don't try to do this repair or use this following description as a guide for the repair. Read the Factory Repair Manual. Subaru may choose to only make that available to trained proffessionals. This posting does not override that decision because it is of a recreational nature, not of a technical nature and cannot be used to do actual work.
This is second hand information, potentially incomplete and an incomplete or erratic repair in the fuel system could cause your car to burst in flames and potential death. Don't trust me and what I have to say, bring the car to an authorized shop and have the work done. If you're a proffessional mechanic, get trained by Subaru, not by my posting. Don't assume that because I did it, you could do it, or that because nothing bad happened to me, nothing bad will happen to you, or your car, or the car you work on. If anything bad should happen to you, your car, the car you work on, or to others, or their property, as a result of you reading this, the fault is only yours, I am not, have not been and will not be responsible ever . By reading the following, you acknowlege all of the above statements.


If after reading the above, you are only curios about how the manifold work gets done, here's a vague summary of what the manual has to say and what I did:

1)They get the fuel pressure released then power disconected. One will be playing with gasoline on top of electric connectors, so that makes sense. Research how to release fuel pressure. Without doing that, one gets sprayed with gasoline at step 9)

2) They get the coolant drained (I got away with just draining a small amount in that engine top tank) then unbolt and move the tank out of the way after unbolting it (at least one of the hoses to it can stay on)

3) They get the intercooler assembly and the intake box assembly out. If you don't know how, research that.

4) They get the power steering pump unmounted from the engine (belt too of course, and I think I had to get A/C belt out first actually)
The power steering pump out is essential to the factory "plan" to take the manifold out "in one piece". I remember observing that.
Note that I'm not giving you all the details, I'm just browsing the manual instructions. By example, in order to take the power steering pump and lean it against the inner fender wall, one must also disconnect an electrical connector and two bolts that secure the power steering lines to the engine. The manual at this stage even says not to try to disconnect the power steering hoses from the pump.
Then one takes the power steering tank and lean it against the inner fender too.

5) They take out the brake booster hose at the manifold connection, the pcv hose, the throttle body coolant lines. At ths stage one could change the PCV and actually get a smooth idle when everything is done.
My recollection is that the intake tube, the one that goes to the turbo also comes out WITH the manifold. One has to discconect the pressure line that comes around it's bend and goes to the recirc valve i think. Also loosen the clamp at the turbo end.

6) They disconnect the two main engine harness connectors, one left one right. the left (driver's) is close to the winshield washer bottle. This was difficult, the connectors did not want to come out, i recall.

7) They disconnect the knock sensor, crankshaft position sensor, coolant temperature sensor, oil pressure switch, camshaft position sensor.

8) They disconnect the coilpack connectors both sides

9) They disconnect the fuel hoses (there is a procedure on how to release fuel pressure, research that, one will get sprayed with gasoline without that. Highly flammable and toxic-irritant to the skin). I marked the hoses at this stage, just in case..

10) They remove 4 bolts that secure the manifold to the head through the TGV's on each side.

At this stage one SHOULD be able to take this hugely intricate assembly out and put it on it's back.
I remember checking for anything I might not have mentioned clearly above because the drawings associated with the instructions clear a lot out. By example, I think there are TWO camshaft sensors, but I am not 100% sure I remember that, the manual is not clear about that. There will be also couple hose snap/clip holder/guides.


From there it should be easy to follow to get to replacing the line. It's not totally easy because those screws that hold the lines are not that easily accesible, being obscured by electrical lines.
Even if it's not easy to take the manifold out when one disconected everything (I had to move it, rock it up and down and hope not to scratch and dammage anything), putting it back IS NOT BAD.

I did all the work without having a helper. But that was only the case with me, I say this only as an example.

Assembly is in reversed order. Replacement gaskets for the TGV are not necessary, but silicone red sealant paste is.

Vlad

Last edited by Vlad; 10-29-2005 at 10:38 AM.
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Old 10-29-2005, 11:41 AM   #15
Rick Schu
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Just buy new OEM gaskets for manifold to heads - they're cheap.

I would go ahead and install the Perrin fuel rails and then you won't ever have to worry about it again. There have been people who have had the fuel rail TSB done and still end up with a leak. You can actually install the Perrin rails without removing the manifold, if you don't mind cutting up the stock rails.
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Old 11-01-2005, 09:20 AM   #16
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Thanks for the details, sounds like a pretty annoying job. But I'd rather do it myself than pay $300-400 for the dealer to do it.
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