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Old 11-01-2005, 07:23 PM   #1
innova
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Default Mobil 1 vs. Mobil 1 extended performance?

I have only used mobile1 5w-30 in my STi....


I was wondering, since they are the same price, if M1 5k mile, 7k mile, or Mobile1 extend performance(15k miles) would be better in the car even if I changed them every 3k miles.

I guess the non-standard Mobile oils contain much more cleaning agent then the standard oil.


Why shouldn't I use them?


OH and does Amsoil realy last 25k miles reliably?????????

http://www.go-synthetic.com/oil_change/oil_change.htm
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Last edited by innova; 11-01-2005 at 07:31 PM.
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Old 11-01-2005, 07:30 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by innova
I have only used mobile1 5w-30 in my STi....


I was wondering, since they are the same price, if M1 5k mile, 7k mile, or Mobile1 extend performance(15k miles) would be better in the car even if I changed them every 3k miles.

I guess the non-standard Mobile oils contain much more cleaning agent then the standard oil.


Why shouldn't I use them?
you are saying the 'extended performance' has more detergent than just the regular synthetic?

you may want to check out www.bobistheoilguy.com and see what they have.
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Old 11-01-2005, 07:31 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by modaddict
you are saying the 'extended performance' has more detergent than just the regular synthetic?

you may want to check out www.bobistheoilguy.com and see what they have.

Yea here is the FAQ from the Mobil web site:

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...AQs.aspx#FAQs1
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Old 11-01-2005, 07:49 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by innova
I have only used mobile1 5w-30 in my STi....
FYI, it's MOBIL. No "e" in the name.
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Old 11-01-2005, 08:10 PM   #5
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Yea I figured that out while browsing their site....


But why wouldn't I want to use the 15k-miles garunteed oil compared to the normal stuff if it is the same price?
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Old 11-01-2005, 08:15 PM   #6
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the certifications of oil is fuzzy to me, but the extended performance is not gf-4 certified. you may want to do some research into that, as to why it is not, and the regular mobil 1 is.

if you find out, please post your findings.




edit: changed from gl-4 to gf-4.....sorry...stupid fingers

Last edited by modaddict; 11-02-2005 at 11:20 AM.
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Old 11-01-2005, 08:25 PM   #7
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Okay will do.


It might be because the extended performance and other high-milage oils that Mobil offers are new.
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Old 11-01-2005, 09:27 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nhluhr
FYI, it's MOBIL. No "e" in the name.
Maybe he's from Louisiana....
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Old 11-01-2005, 11:17 PM   #9
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A couple of things here.

First, It states on the Mobil1 EP bottle that if the manufacturers recommended interval is less than 15K the owner should follow those specs. In other words, this oil is not guaranteed for 15K unless the car is. Now AMSOIL does guarantee there oils for the intervals stated if you follow their recommendations. For instance, since these are turbo vehicles they are considered severe service so with the ASL, ATM, AMO, ARO, or TRO oils you can go 15,000. With the TSO you can go 17,500. Or 7500 with the XL series oils. In standard service you can go 25 or 35K depending on which oil you are using. AMSOIL also has a new oil filter out that is using new technology which does not require changing halfway through the drain interval like the old filters did.

Second, GL-4 ratings are for gear lube not motor oil so even the Reg M1 does not have them.

FYI: Yes I am an Amsoil Dealer but am not one to stretch the facts like some may.

Ken
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Old 11-01-2005, 11:45 PM   #10
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I have regularly run the normal Mobil 1 to very long change cycles for almost 25 years now (since it first came out). No problems at all. In fact when Mobil One first came out they recommended the longer change cycles but the manufactures freaked out so they backed away from the recommendation but the fact is all the brand name synthetic oils will work just fine at 10,000+ change intervals.

The only problem with long change intervals is loss of additives in the oils and this can easily avoided by replacing only the oil filter at its recommended oil change cycle. The added oil you need to fill the new oil filter will provide additional additives and keep your oil up to snuff. There is essentially no physical breakdown of the oil itself in normal service.

Larry
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Old 11-02-2005, 09:34 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by o2man98
Second, GL-4 ratings are for gear lube not motor oil so even the Reg M1 does not have them.
He probably meant GF-4 emission/fuel economy requirements.

The EP is a better oil and is not energy conserving. Run it for 5,000 miles, then do an analysis. It's a waste of money and oil to run synthetic and change it every 3,000 miles.

Use an oil of the proper viscosity for your driving conditions and location. Use conventional if you change it every 3,000 miles. I run German Castrol 0W30 for 7,500 miles and it holds up very well for the entire interval. I wouldn't run the regular M1 30 weight in a modified STi. Use the 0W40.

-Dennis

Last edited by bluesubie; 11-02-2005 at 09:41 AM.
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Old 11-02-2005, 10:56 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by innova
I have only used mobile1 5w-30 in my STi....


I was wondering, since they are the same price, if M1 5k mile, 7k mile, or Mobile1 extend performance(15k miles) would be better in the car even if I changed them every 3k miles.

I guess the non-standard Mobile oils contain much more cleaning agent then the standard oil.


Why shouldn't I use them?


OH and does Amsoil realy last 25k miles reliably?????????

http://www.go-synthetic.com/oil_change/oil_change.htm

If yo'ure changing at 3K it doens't really matter which one you use, you're wasting all of them.

Now that my SI levels have come down, i'm going to try go to beyond 7.5 on my RP. Think i'll try 10K (I"m at 5K on this interval now, and i just changed the filter)
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Old 11-02-2005, 11:19 AM   #13
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Here is a very interesting study on the life of synthetic oil:

http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/s.../oil-life.html

Enjoy!
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Old 11-02-2005, 12:20 PM   #14
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that is a good site, i'll post some interesting notes i picked up on:

1.) Engine wear actually decreases as oil ages. This has also been substantiated in testing conducted by Ford Motor Co. and ConocoPhillips, and reported in SAE Technical Paper 2003-01-3119. What this means is that compulsive oil changers are actually causing more engine wear than the people who let their engine's oil get some age on it.

2.)Based on the results we've got here, we'd recommend 8,000 miles between oil changes on an engine that uses no oil at all, perhaps 10,000 miles on an engine that uses some oil, and 15,000 miles or beyond with a filter change every 5,000 miles. This, of course, isn't any kind of guarantee, and you must evaluate for yourself what your engine requires. One thing we're pretty sure about though: 3,000-mile intervals is a huge waste of resources.

My last drain was at 7.5K with a filter changed half way, and my TBN was still at 3, so i'll be going to at least 10K on this one great site, thanks for the link.
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Old 11-02-2005, 12:58 PM   #15
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let me say that i am not an oil expert and have never analyzed or taken oil samples.

according to the mobil1 oil samples on that website, a 'fresh' sample has 0 ppm copper.
at 1k it goes to 58ppm. call me a skeptic or what have you, but i believe that most of the copper comes from the left over oil in the engine, that does not get drained out. i think that is a major 'margin of error' in that test. It was very interesting to read. but im still sticking to mobil1 and 3k oil intervals. it may be a 'waste of resources' but when i blow up my engine, i wont have to think "was it because i went 7.5-10 or 15k on my oil changes?" And those 'resources' are mine, i will choose to waste them. to each his own, i guess. this is why it is AMERICA, and God bless this land for what we have and our freedoms.
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Old 11-02-2005, 01:11 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by modaddict
according to the mobil1 oil samples on that website, a 'fresh' sample has 0 ppm copper.
at 1k it goes to 58ppm. call me a skeptic or what have you, but i believe that most of the copper comes from the left over oil in the engine, that does not get drained out. i think that is a major 'margin of error' in that test. It was very interesting to read. but im still sticking to mobil1 and 3k oil intervals. it may be a 'waste of resources' but when i blow up my engine, i wont have to think "was it because i went 7.5-10 or 15k on my oil changes?" And those 'resources' are mine, i will choose to waste them. to each his own, i guess. this is why it is AMERICA, and God bless this land for what we have and our freedoms.

did you even read it?

1.) The baseline run (mile 0) indicates the composition of the additive package in Mobil 1 Super-Syn Formula, as well as the physical characteristics of the oil before spending time in an engine. This baseline will allow us to track the degradation in oil quality over the miles.

This means the 0 copper is representative of there being no copper in mobil 1's oil before it used in an engine.

2.) Copper is rather high but the lab says that is typical of the LS1 engine up to as far as 30,000 miles.

It's called break in wear metals, your sube did it too (though not that high i'm sure).

Did you happen to see the part where changing your oil too often causes MORE wear?
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Old 11-02-2005, 02:27 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by modaddict
let me say that i am not an oil expert and have never analyzed or taken oil samples.
'Nuff said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hondaeater69
Did you even read it?
Selectively maybe?

hondaeater - Check the used oil analysis forums on bobistheoilguy for some other WRX UOA's on RP. I wouldn't go past 7,500 miles on any oil only because of maintaining the Powertrain warranty, but that's just me.

-Dennis
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Old 11-02-2005, 02:35 PM   #18
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yea i've checked some of them out over there. That's the first site that gave me enough confidence to run oil past 3K. There you can see actual reports of people driving the same cars with the same oil, so it's a good place to see firsthand results.

My warranty is and has been done (stage 4 51K), no worries there. I don't think i'll be going to any 18K oil intervals, but i think a 10K is a good shot now that my Si levels have come down.
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Old 11-02-2005, 02:42 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hondaeater69
1.) Engine wear actually decreases as oil ages. This has also been substantiated in testing conducted by Ford Motor Co. and ConocoPhillips, and reported in SAE Technical Paper 2003-01-3119. What this means is that compulsive oil changers are actually causing more engine wear than the people who let their engine's oil get some age on it.
I didn't see that quote. I did see this:

Quote:
Theory 1: three months or 3,000 miles

Well, it seems to work. But for most engines it's a lot like changing your bath water partway through your bath. More than likely you're wasting a lot of time, money, and oil, but you're certainly not likely to be harming the engine any. A 5,000-mile interval is gaining popularity and is probably more realistic, but it's still a guess.
Which seems to say 3000-mile changes are not harming anything.
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Old 11-02-2005, 03:09 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hondaeater69
My warranty is and has been done (stage 4 51K), no worries there.
Ok, nevermind.

OT: Here's a UOA with RP Racing 21 . Also, check out the Subaru UOA's on German Castrol. Here's one with 4,700 on the oil in an STi with 45 1/4 mile drag passes. And here's mine with 6,100 miles on GC.

I believe these UOA's are comparing apples to apples more than looking at UOA's on a Chevy. If you use a M1 30 weight, it's probably a good idea to change it every 3k miles because it is thin and is not as shear stable as some other oils. That's why the better oils (German Castrol Syntec, Motul 300V, Redline, etc.) are not Energy Conserving.

-Dennis

Last edited by bluesubie; 11-02-2005 at 03:20 PM.
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Old 11-02-2005, 11:28 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hondaeater69
did you even read it?

1.) The baseline run (mile 0) indicates the composition of the additive package in Mobil 1 Super-Syn Formula, as well as the physical characteristics of the oil before spending time in an engine. This baseline will allow us to track the degradation in oil quality over the miles.

yes i understand this

This means the 0 copper is representative of there being no copper in mobil 1's oil before it used in an engine.

2.) Copper is rather high but the lab says that is typical of the LS1 engine up to as far as 30,000 miles.


do you really think they have some sort of calculation system and that they track the ls1 engines? Do you believe everything you read? sounds like it.

[/quote]It's called break in wear metals, your sube did it too (though not that high i'm sure). [/quote]

probably true. to the extent unknown. mine has 12k on it.

[/quote] Did you happen to see the part where changing your oil too often causes MORE wear?[/quote]

people have been changing their oil at 3k for a lot longer than they have been doing it at 10k. (or whatever your choice is) do you really think that your engine is going to last longer than mine since you change your oil at 7.5-10k and i do mine at 3k? I know, i know, your engine isnt the same as mine and we're comparing apples and oranges but please, give me a break. i still dont buy it that if i change my oil at 3k, IM ACTUALLY HURTING MY CAR, because you change yours at 7.5k. Ohh well, im still using mobil1 at 3k changes.

figured i would throw some color in there for some spice!
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Old 11-03-2005, 09:24 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by modaddict
[/color]do you really think they have some sort of calculation system and that they track the ls1 engines? Do you believe everything you read? sounds like it.
It's called break in wear metals, your sube did it too (though not that high i'm sure). [/quote]

probably true. to the extent unknown. mine has 12k on it.

[/quote] Did you happen to see the part where changing your oil too often causes MORE wear?[/quote]

people have been changing their oil at 3k for a lot longer than they have been doing it at 10k. (or whatever your choice is) do you really think that your engine is going to last longer than mine since you change your oil at 7.5-10k and i do mine at 3k? I know, i know, your engine isnt the same as mine and we're comparing apples and oranges but please, give me a break. i still dont buy it that if i change my oil at 3k, IM ACTUALLY HURTING MY CAR, because you change yours at 7.5k. Ohh well, im still using mobil1 at 3k changes.

figured i would throw some color in there for some spice! [/quote]

First point, yes, blackstone DOES track wear metals for SPECIFIC engine types. I have my oil anayzed with them and the wear metals they listed as universal avgs are specific to the EJ engine type. If you don't believe me, go call them.

Second point, no i don't think my engine will necessarily last longer with 7.5K intervals as opposed to 3K intervals, i'm just not throwing money away. Unncessassarily.
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Old 11-03-2005, 11:15 AM   #23
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Quote:
That's why the better oils (German Castrol Syntec, Motul 300V, Redline, etc.) are not Energy Conserving.
Energy Conserving is an API mark... Redline doesn't meet any of the API standards, thus making it impossible to be Energy Conserving.

Quote:
If you use a M1 30 weight, it's probably a good idea to change it every 3k miles because it is thin
Actually, M1 5W30 has a cST @ 100C of 11.3. Comparing this to Redlines cST of 10.9 at the same temp would mean M1 is thicker than Redline is.

Last edited by MrHorspwer; 11-03-2005 at 11:21 AM.
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Old 11-03-2005, 11:38 AM   #24
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[/quote] Second point, no i don't think my engine will necessarily last longer with 7.5K intervals as opposed to 3K intervals, i'm just not throwing money away. Unncessassarily.[/quote]

how many miles do you drive a year? I see going back a few posts you have 51k on it. assuming you put these miles on the car.

at 25k miles a year that means you change the oil 8 times at 3k. at $25 dollars an oil change thats $200.

at 7.5k oil changes, you change it 4 times and thats $100. you mean to tell me that you are happy that your not throwing away a $100 a year on oil? thats pathetic! you have a stage 4 wrx, you've spent a butload on it and now your skimping on oil. i'll admit that you drive almost 2x more than the average person, but even then the average person would only save $50 a year. hell, thats a montly cable t.v. bill. I guess im interested in unnecessarily throwing my exta $50 a year away, and have peace of mind (even if thats all it is) that my oil is good.
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Old 11-03-2005, 01:16 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrHorspwer
Energy Conserving is an API mark... Redline doesn't meet any of the API standards, thus making it impossible to be Energy Conserving.



Actually, M1 5W30 has a cST @ 100C of 11.3. Comparing this to Redlines cST of 10.9 at the same temp would mean M1 is thicker than Redline is.
So shoot me, I listed a non-API certified oil discussing energy conserving oils.
Energy Conserving is more than the thickness, it's also the additives. Some Motul 30 weights are under 10 cst's and they don't get the Starburst.

I also said M1 wasn't as shear stable as some other oils. M1 5W30 also has a High Temp High Shear of only 3.09 vs. Redline 5W30's 3.9. M1 has PAO basestocks and Redline has Polyol esters. The M1 is going to lose viscosity quicker than the Redline.

Doesn't really concern me though. I use a 0W30 that's 12.1 cst's at 100C with ester base stocks, HTHS of 3.6, pour point of -63C, flash point of 238C, TBN of 10.6 and a VI of 179.

-Dennis

Last edited by bluesubie; 11-03-2005 at 02:01 PM.
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