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11-03-2005, 02:20 PM | #1 |
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Race gas is causing timing retard
Ok this is a strange problem. I have street tuner with a large turbo setup. I was wondering if having the stock dynamic advance could cause knock or the car to think it is knocking? Dynamic Advance a was tuned by a tuner but advance b and c are set to stock levels. I am hoping this is the problem but am open to input.
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11-03-2005, 07:34 PM | #2 |
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What are your mods? What kinda race gas are you talkin about?
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11-03-2005, 08:36 PM | #3 |
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Mods are sr55, modded injectors, tbe, fmic, and all other supporting mods.
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11-04-2005, 02:03 AM | #4 |
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Are you using a high octane leaded/unleaded race fuel or a mid octane oxy. enhanced fuel?
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11-04-2005, 07:43 AM | #5 |
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I am using vp 110 leaded. I also tried using c16 with the same result. I will post my data log later today.
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11-04-2005, 07:53 AM | #6 |
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If only the 'A" map was tuned, there could be somethign weird goign on. For example, maybe the car detects the higher octane and tries to use the 'B' map which is untuned. It depends on what was done, honestly.
From what I've read, the car uses the 'A' map and will try to work it's way up to the 'B' map. If the values in the A map on your car are higher than the B values (which is the opposite of how they are stock), then that might explain your problem. What you might want to do is take your 'A' map, copy the scaling and values into your 'B' map and then see what happens. If your knock correction doesn't decrease, then that may be, at least part of your problem. You might then want to try adding a bit of timing to the B map in the higher load/higher rpm areas to see if the car will run it. I still have found very little information on the C map, so I don't know what it does. Thanks, Mike Last edited by crazymikie; 11-04-2005 at 08:05 AM. |
11-04-2005, 08:18 AM | #7 | |
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11-04-2005, 09:02 AM | #8 |
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I wonder if EcuTek has explained these maps to anyone. I'd be very interested to understand them.
In my experience (albeit limited) it is harder to get an STi to run consistently than it is to get a WRX to run consistently. If feels like there is more going on with the ECU and it is constantly trying to optimize things. If the 3 maps aren't set up correctly, it seems like it will be very inconsistent. Thanks, Mike |
11-04-2005, 09:13 AM | #9 | |
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TMS |
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11-04-2005, 10:32 AM | #10 |
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I did a datalog and noticed that from 2300-2400 rpm my timing is 33.0 then around 2450 or so it drops to 6.5 and works its way up. I just feel like maybe my primary ignition table may be off. After reading up a bit Cobb recomends that you rely less on dynamic advance and more on primary ignition. Does anyone have any input on this?
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11-04-2005, 11:19 AM | #11 | ||
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Quote:
Trey Cobb has offered a vague explanation in a PRIVATE communication to a ProTuner user (see http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...5&postcount=40): Quote:
I think EVERYONE who owns an STi StreetTuner should start his own thread in Cobb's STi StreetTuner forum asking for a detailed description of how the A, B, and C maps relate and how their values are used to arrive at an ignition advance. Cobb claims such an explanation might confuse people more than they are now. How is that possible? Everyone is COMPLETELY in the dark now. Oh, and bump your Cobb thread daily with "Bump for explanation." Maybe that'll get their attention. Last edited by Jon [in CT]; 11-04-2005 at 01:49 PM. |
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11-05-2005, 10:25 PM | #12 |
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I've been thinking about this and I'm starting to think that these maps may work like the CL/OL delay mapping works on the 04/05 WRXs. There are a whole slew of inputs, there is some logic around what all of the inputs are (look at coolant temp, IAT, fuel quality, etc) and based on the values of all of these things, pick some value calculated based on the values in A, B and C.
A scenario like this might explain why different people see changes under different conditions- one person may have a series of inputs satisfied, except for coolant temp. As soon as the coolant temp is above a certain point, it is the last input needed to choose a value in map B. This doesn't explain things if certain cars ALWAYS seem to move between maps given the same condition, however. Mike |
11-05-2005, 10:39 PM | #13 | |
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He's claiming that Table C is the basic table and that Table A is reduced by the Table B value as part of the adjustment to Table C. |
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11-06-2005, 12:14 AM | #14 | |
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Quote:
http://www.iwsti.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32289 http://www.iwsti.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27424 Take a good hard look at the first post. Dynamic Advance A and Dynamic Advance B are exactly the same in all light/medium load areas and all low-mid RPMs. They only differ in the part that needs protection ... and all the values are HIGHER here. It's like somebody copied DA A and just highlighted the bottom right corner of the table and increased the values. To this day, I haven't seen any data ... at any point in time ... that shows DA C being used at WOT. Maybe at part throttle - but I haven't put ANY time into examining the DA maps with regard to part throttle. t |
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11-06-2005, 09:56 AM | #15 | |
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Thanks, Mike |
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