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Old 11-08-2005, 12:01 PM   #1
wrxdwpsti
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Impreza WRX STi ecutec or AP???

alright i have an '04 sti, with a 3" tbe (hks down pipe, hks hi power cbe, full catless) i'm not sure if i should go with an accessport, or an ecutec... if anyone has similar mods and has any dyno graphs or anything put em up...thanks again
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Old 11-08-2005, 01:17 PM   #2
the_colombian
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this is a link from I-speed USA comparing a 2.0L with Cobb AP against a custom ecutek tune.
http://www.i-speed.us/dyno_results/d...info.cgi?id=15
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Old 11-08-2005, 01:26 PM   #3
JayZ28
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That comparison does not give the complete picture imho. It is comparing a custom dyno tune to an off the shelf map. Regardless of what type of tuning technology you use, a custom tune will almost always out-power a shelf map. If I were the customer in that I-Speed comparison, I would not have paid for an Ecutek license just to get a custom tune. The smarter option would've been to pay for a Cobb Protune since he already had an AP, and thus retain the ability to switch maps if so desired. That, in my opinion, is the greatest asset of the Cobb AP. Switching between live maps and the ability to restore to a "stock" map can be quite valuable. If strickly deciding from a horsepower per dollar argument however, an Ecutek tune is the more economical option, but then again, so is nitrous on a big american V8

-Jay
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Old 11-08-2005, 01:35 PM   #4
west005
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With the Access port you can get the ST and tune, or have someone tune. ECUTEK can be reflashed for $150 if you change parts. The Street tuner is like ECUTEK with a splash of UTEC mixed in there. It is your choice
-Buy a turbo from gruppe-s and they have AP maps for certain turbos they sell (ST?)
-Upgrade to a green or eq and send you ECU in for a ECUTEK reflash
If your short terms goals are not to mod, I say access port.
If you don't want to ever fool with tuning send it in for ECUTEK reflash.
really depends on if you can get to a tuner and what system he tunes.
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Old 11-08-2005, 01:35 PM   #5
flycaster
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I'm certainly not disputing a gain from a custom tune, but why do these guys insist on doing it differently than everyone else? Look at the TQ/HP crossover points: not only are they different, but neither crosses at 5250. Not only that, but this is computed BHP, not WHP, right? IOW, it makes the gain look larger.

Also, why didn't they just make him a custom A/Pro map - he already paid for the A/P, so he had to pay for an ECUTek license and then sell the A/P. Kinda dumb, if you ask me.
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Old 11-08-2005, 01:37 PM   #6
west005
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Yeah, match a custom Cobb map to ECUtek map! Or a ECUTEK reflash off the shelf map to a dyno tuned AP map!
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Old 11-08-2005, 01:42 PM   #7
the_colombian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flycaster
I'm certainly not disputing a gain from a custom tune, but why do these guys insist on doing it differently than everyone else? Look at the TQ/HP crossover points: not only are they different, but neither crosses at 5250. Not only that, but this is computed BHP, not WHP, right? IOW, it makes the gain look larger.

Also, why didn't they just make him a custom A/Pro map - he already paid for the A/P, so he had to pay for an ECUTek license and then sell the A/P. Kinda dumb, if you ask me.
Because they dont tune AP.
It doesnt make the gains look bigger. The AP base line in that map is crank HP as well just like the custom ecutek tune.
Cobb is cool if you get a pro tuned map.
But comparing a custom ecutek tune with a cobb shelf map; I vote for ecutek.
I think a cobb pro tuned map is equal to a ecutek flash.
the cobb map doesnt cross at 5250 either.

anyways, I didnt post the link to make a I-speed conversation. just wanted to show the they guy that started the thread that a custom tune makes more power.

Last edited by the_colombian; 11-08-2005 at 01:50 PM.
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Old 11-08-2005, 04:43 PM   #8
ChrisF
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If you can get a local custom tune for your AP, it is the only way to go. ECUTek is a great product, but you can't get multiple maps which to me is a huge deal. Maybe it isn't to others. ECUTek came on the boards and promised this feature back in May and to date, they not only haven't come out with an update, they now are no longer even answering inquiries. To me that is bad customer service. Their competition just swept right past them and they did nothing about it.
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Old 11-08-2005, 06:44 PM   #9
the_colombian
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well, ecutek does offer the delta dash software that allows you to advance timing and boost on your own laptop. No need to go to the tuner anymore. You can adjust your own map and also be able to log and correct detonation. You can adjust your current map to your liking with whatever fuel you are using.
The delta dash cost about 450-500 bucks. More money but a cool feature. Im debating in getting this or get a pro-tuned 100 oct map.
Since I already have ecutek, I would only need to pay about 500 more for the deltadash and im done, the protune is whatever a AP cost plus 499 for a protune. (harmon motive price) which only includes 1 1/2 hours of tuning.
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Old 11-08-2005, 07:08 PM   #10
flycaster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the_colombian
It doesnt make the gains look bigger..
Yes, actually it does since drivetrain loss is not a constant percentage, and Bill knows this.
Quote:
I think a cobb pro tuned map is equal to a ecutek flash.
We agree, but your first post seemed to imply that ECUTek was superior to to the AP system. For just about the same money, he'll end up at the same place with either system. But the Cobb system takes far less dyno time to tune (all tuning is done in real time, no reflashing required) and it still has an advantage of map switching on the fly. But, map for map, I agree: equal results.
Quote:
the cobb map doesnt cross at 5250 either.
That's the point. His scaling method is unlike anyone else's.
Quote:
anyways, I didnt post the link to make a I-speed conversation. just wanted to show the they guy that started the thread that a custom tune makes more power.
Again, I agree. However, I-speed's dyno charts are totally worthless on a comparative basis, except for his internal use.
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Old 11-09-2005, 06:37 PM   #11
wrxdwpsti
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bump,,,
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Old 11-09-2005, 07:05 PM   #12
mcowger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the_colombian
the protune is whatever a AP cost plus 499 for a protune. (harmon motive price) which only includes 1 1/2 hours of tuning.

Thats excessive. My tuner charges list for the AP (600 I think) + 195/hr for tuning.
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Old 11-09-2005, 08:26 PM   #13
the_colombian
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not my prices man. Thats just what is listed on the harmon website and they are the closest protuners to san diego as far as I know.
They do charge 200 for additional hours though.
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Old 11-09-2005, 08:30 PM   #14
Crawford/I-Speed
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flycaster
Yes, actually it does since drivetrain loss is not a constant percentage, and Bill knows this.
You are correct. Drivetrain loss is not constant. That is why we choose the closest 1:1 gear ratio for the WRX and Sti. This method enables us to make consistent comparisons.
Remember, a dyno is a tool not a judge of absolutes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by flycaster
We agree, but your first post seemed to imply that ECUTek was superior to to the AP system. For just about the same money, he'll end up at the same place with either system. But the Cobb system takes far less dyno time to tune (all tuning is done in real time, no reflashing required) and it still has an advantage of map switching on the fly. But, map for map, I agree: equal results.
Not true. You are speculating that all tuners are equal.
One hour with a proficient AP/Ecutek tuner does not = one hour of an inefficient AP/Ecutek tuner.
No the systems are not equal, yet
Remember, a tune will vary with the skill level of the person tuning the vehicle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by flycaster
Again, I agree. However, I-speed's dyno charts are totally worthless on a comparative basis, except for his internal use.
This statement is the primary reason I responded to this thread.
I will assume that you mean on a comparative basis between different dynos and different charts. Please correct me if this is not the appropriate assumption.
In any case, please feel free to share with me, via PM, how we can make our information simpler and more user friendly to consumers

Thanks

Chris
I-Speed USA
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Old 11-09-2005, 10:25 PM   #15
flycaster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I-Speed USA
Not true. You are speculating that all tuners are equal.
Say what? I'm just talking about comparative ECM systems, which is the subject of the thread. Please read that paragraph again: you'll note that the word "tuner(s)" never appears once. OTOH, you are now adding a variable that I intentionally left out by insinuating that I-Speed is a "proficient" tuner, whereas others are not. Not only that, but you totally skated on the issue that other tuners offer Protunes and you don't. A simultaneous slam and duck, well done.

Quote:
I will assume that you mean on a comparative basis between different dynos and different charts.
Good, after all that is what I said.

Quote:
In any case, please feel free to share with me, via PM, how we can make our information simpler and more user friendly to consumers.
Simple. Show whp and scale your public domain dyno charts like everyone else, and continue to use your current format internally if it benefits you. But, the current format is of no (as in zero) benefit to the public who wishes to compare your company's tuning abilities and products against those of other tuners, since the only comparative tools they have are dyno charts. But you've heard all this many times before...

Last edited by flycaster; 11-10-2005 at 01:00 PM.
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Old 11-11-2005, 09:50 PM   #16
Crawford/I-Speed
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flycaster
Say what? I'm just talking about comparative ECM systems, which is the subject of the thread. Please read that paragraph again: you'll note that the word "tuner(s)" never appears once. OTOH, you are now adding a variable that I intentionally left out by insinuating that I-Speed is a "proficient" tuner, whereas others are not. Not only that, but you totally skated on the issue that other tuners offer Protunes and you don't. A simultaneous slam and duck, well done.


Good, after all that is what I said.


Simple. Show whp and scale your public domain dyno charts like everyone else, and continue to use your current format internally if it benefits you. But, the current format is of no (as in zero) benefit to the public who wishes to compare your company's tuning abilities and products against those of other tuners, since the only comparative tools they have are dyno charts. But you've heard all this many times before...
Flycaster

Please do not think that there was a "method to my madness" in my previous post. I was merely asking for clarification, which you gave. Thank you.

On another note: Thanks for taking the time to reply and offer some helpful suggestions. Your comments are not in vain. We are currently re-scaling all our graphs to make them simpler to digest. Please keep in mind that we will still use our current data acquisition methods, as we want to keep as much consistency as possible

Thanks again

Chris

Ps. What does OTOH mean?
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Old 11-11-2005, 09:59 PM   #17
Rasmusson14
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^^^^ OTOH

"On The Other Hand"
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