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Old 11-10-2005, 04:28 AM   #1
biggreen96
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Default Surging more of a problem on a cold turbo?

I am using an avcr to control my stock turbo at a setting for full boost asap. My symptoms go away when warm. Thoughts?
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Old 11-10-2005, 01:25 PM   #2
Master2192
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Yes it is usually a problem as the exhaust is also cooler its also denser and doesn't pass the turbine as easily.

On an old Ford diesel that do not have wastegates (free floating turbo), if it was cold out and i had just started the truck. It would surge so bad it would bog down the motor with air. Didn't cause that much of a problem on a diesel though as pushing the throttle down more it just felt like you prespooled the turbo..
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Old 11-10-2005, 01:29 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Master2192
Didn't cause that much of a problem on a diesel though as pushing the throttle down more it just felt like you prespooled the turbo..
I get that too. Mash the gas and I can hear the turbo spool like mad but accel is weak.
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Old 11-13-2005, 12:10 AM   #4
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[quote=Master2192]Yes it is usually a problem as the exhaust is also cooler its also denser and doesn't pass the turbine as easily.

Sorry Bud,
I'm just not grasping what you are saying.....
How can denser/cooler air be responsible for surging? Sure it would be 'harder' to get it there, but it would DO more when it got there. And with modern ECU inputs/outputs, with Air temp and pressure, air mass etc.. I fail to see how this 'cooler/denser' air creates a problem. What about all the people living in Sub zero conditions? Do they ALL suffer surging? Help me out here guys

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Old 12-02-2005, 09:12 AM   #5
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Anybody???
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Old 12-02-2005, 01:25 PM   #6
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could it just be that when its cold you are running richer, i know that caused surging on my leg turbo motor in my impreza on the impreza ECU. id give it gas, it would spool, not accelerate, and backfire because it was so rich. (rich because of the ECU it was on, it wouldnt only do this when it was cold)
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Old 12-02-2005, 07:52 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Natoe
could it just be that when its cold you are running richer, i know that caused surging on my leg turbo motor in my impreza on the impreza ECU. id give it gas, it would spool, not accelerate, and backfire because it was so rich. (rich because of the ECU it was on, it wouldnt only do this when it was cold)
I'm sorry, could you explain to me how the spark arrived at the incorrect time because of the air fuel ratio?? You obviously had a tuning issue.
Or do you mean that the vehicle ran that rich when cold it would backfire out of the exhaust because there were so many super-heated unburnt hydrocarbons that it just needs the air outside the tailpipe to go bang?, (my car does this!, no cats and just about any car will do it!!
I am asking if anyone out there can explain in detail how a gutfull of COLD AIR will make a vehicle surge.

And I want the real answer....something like....the air is dense upon entering the inlet tract, as it is heated it expands and becomes thinner, the cold air coming in contacts the expanded air and transfers its thermodyn........GET THE IDEA.
I want a real answer.

Cheers

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Old 12-02-2005, 11:11 PM   #8
Natoe
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whatever man, i can see how people could think you sound like an arse sometimes, its all good though. i was JUST sharing what my car does. my car backfires more than yours period, it was the biggest overfueling SOB EVER! (rewired now, just started it the first time tonight )

before i could give it 75% throttle and it would BOG, chug, spit, backfire, its catless, and these backfires would rattle my ass. if it werent for the stock STI catback+muffler... ida been shootin flames to the MOON!!!!
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Old 12-03-2005, 12:11 AM   #9
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I asked what I thought was a pretty direct and specific question did I not?
I did not flame you. You just chucked in you 2cents and I don't really see how it is relevant to the actual question I asked. I gave you a possible scenario, and asked you to clarify what you meant. I understand that my humour is clearly different to EVERYONE else's
Just assume that I am being funny first, and being an arse secondly

Cheers man-( wasn't trying to piss u off )

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Old 12-03-2005, 02:27 AM   #10
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haha i know you werent trying to piss me off, but i understand why people see it that way... maybe your just being a little rude? i dont know but it is funny. i didnt know the answer to your question, just thought id share my thoughts, since this is a forum and thats what we do.
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Old 12-03-2005, 04:47 AM   #11
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No, I am defintely not being rude, not even a little!!LOL I am being australian. I apologise, it's not my fault that you guys talk around each other and go out of your ways to be polite, (perhaps in the fear of being sued for upsetting people? Slander, defamation..etc LOL!), coz down here we call it how it is. And if you read back on my previous work you will see I have toned it down a WHOLE lot. So be grateful.....!!!LOL!!!LOL!!!
Cheers

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Old 12-03-2005, 09:08 AM   #12
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sixpack have you had any issues with surging with iridium plugs. i know that did it on my car. went back to ngk r vpowers and the problem went away.

oh and the cut issues that i was having was due to over boosting on my car because the wastegate actuator was in a bind and it wouldnt open.
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Old 12-03-2005, 09:27 AM   #13
sixpack subaru
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Hey Pal, No I havent had any issues with Iridiums, although I always use the stock Item unless its a full racer. No gap or contamination issues? How did ithe Iridiums look when you removed them?

And what you were describing was Fuel-cut!?!?!? The last time I experienced fuel cut it nearly broke my neck! I thought you said that it was 'like a surging or deadspot...or something..' anyway, doesn't matter if it's all fixed!!LOL!! Cheers

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Old 12-03-2005, 05:54 PM   #14
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the iridiums looked fine but they did smell of gas. that is odd because i have changed the plugs numerous times and they never smelled like gas before, but i did change the fuel filter when i installed the iridiums.

on another note have you/ would you use or recommend the use of zyline/zylol in the gas as an octane booster. a few people were saying that they used it and recieved no ill effects.
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Old 12-03-2005, 06:05 PM   #15
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If you took them out after the running the eng for a few secs/minutes cold they will smell. As far as changing the filter goes, I don't know if that's gonna matter to the plug 'smell'. I have heard of you guys using toluene, (do a search?), I believe SOA recommends it's safe use. The only thing I would watch is that you pre-mix it before putting it in, (at least a little), as the rubber fuel hoses/lines/pipes don't like straight paint stripper, (Toluene), it tears at thier insides!. I am under the impression that around 20% vol is your limit with Toluene, and as yet have heard nothing bad about it-OVER THERE. But we had 'some' Fuel outlets mixing it and selling it as 'high octane' fuel. Needless to say, there was FARR to much Toluene in it and it killed fuel systems.
Also diesel has a history of having it added over here also. Don't know much about Zyline/Zylene though....sorry bud.

Cheers

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Old 12-03-2005, 08:32 PM   #16
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from what i heard its the same thing as toluene.
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Old 12-03-2005, 08:45 PM   #17
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If it is then I would use it 'Sparingly' at first, (just my nature....to sneak up on things..LOL!), then increase the mix up the 'recommended' limit.
Where do you buy this stuff?
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Old 12-04-2005, 03:26 PM   #18
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silvialost

how did you check your wastegate actuator? what was teh fix also? i'm still trying to figure out what the hell is going on with my car.
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Old 12-04-2005, 05:41 PM   #19
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sixpack-
at the paint store. the stuff is just paint thinner.

hail2theTheif-
well i pulled the chimney off the turbo and tried to open the wastegate with the acctuator attached by hand. it wouldnt budge. undid the wastegate e-clip and then the wastegate moved freely. that led me to the acctuator. when the acctuator was cliped to the wastegate the arm of the acctuator was in a bind with the body of the acctuator. so i bent the acctuator bracket and problem solved.
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Old 12-10-2005, 05:09 AM   #20
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Oh!!! HA!!!LOL!! Like I said!!!! I have NEVER adjusted an actuator 'ARM'!!LOL!
I have ALWAYS bent the bracket carefully with a lever!! What a classic!!!

Cheers!
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Old 12-30-2005, 03:00 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biggreen96
I am using an avcr to control my stock turbo at a setting for full boost asap. My symptoms go away when warm. Thoughts?
Is your boost spiking? If you set the duty cycle really high on the boost controler it will build boost more rapidly but will also have the side effect of spiking (boosting higher than you set peak boost at).

correct me if I'm wrong but this may cause a type of surging as boost jumps over what you have set the AVCR at and the boost controler struggles to control it.

Try backing the duty cycle off so that boost won't build quite as quickly and see what happens.

noah
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Old 01-20-2006, 09:52 PM   #22
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turboz make me emo
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