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Old 10-18-2012, 10:23 PM   #101
ToddMcF2002
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Ha Ha yup interpretation error on my part duh For the lines I've *heard* you can use a stick to hold the brake pedal down and minimize the leak. Never tried it...
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Old 01-24-2013, 08:48 PM   #102
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Default caliper casting seal/o-ring

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Old 01-24-2013, 09:29 PM   #103
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nevermind

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Old 01-25-2013, 11:24 AM   #104
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When I took the brake hose off of my front caliper to attempt a rebuild, I only came up with one washer, between hose end and banjo bolt head. Was there a washer between the hose end and the caliper and I dropped it?
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Old 01-25-2013, 10:24 PM   #105
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You may have dropped it or it may be smashed onto the caliper. I had to use a flat head screwdriver to scrape the washer off the calipers.
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Old 03-12-2013, 04:25 AM   #106
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Default Permatex Ultra Disc Brake Caliper Lube

Originally Posted by wsmith30132
I'm not saying that you are wrong but why would they send grease packets in the rebuid kit and tell you to put it on the piston seal? Also the Permetex caliper grease I bought listed it to be applied to the piston. I rubbed a little on the piston and some on the inside of the piston boot. I figured it would help condition the boot to heat/stress. I'm a little woried now. I see where you are coming from about mixing the 2 but OEM includes it...

Quote:
Originally Posted by unclemat View Post
It is supposed to be put in the groove in the boot that circles piston only, not all over the piston.
Specifically, the 2nd step in the directions for "Permatex Ultra Disc Brake Caliper Lube" (synthetic lubricant) says "Apply Caliper Lube to pins, slides, bushings, pistons and rubber sleeves and seals." (http://www.permatex.com/component/do...tions&id=24110)

Could the fact that the Permatex is a synthetic lubricant make a difference? It just seems odd that a specialty company, and the standard in brake lube, like Permatex would mess up the directions for their product. I was really surprised to read this on the label and came here to ask/check. The great write-up is a bonus. Thanks.
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Old 03-12-2013, 07:05 AM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dagger108 View Post
Originally Posted by wsmith30132
I'm not saying that you are wrong but why would they send grease packets in the rebuid kit and tell you to put it on the piston seal? Also the Permetex caliper grease I bought listed it to be applied to the piston. I rubbed a little on the piston and some on the inside of the piston boot. I figured it would help condition the boot to heat/stress. I'm a little woried now. I see where you are coming from about mixing the 2 but OEM includes it...

Specifically, the 2nd step in the directions for "Permatex Ultra Disc Brake Caliper Lube" (synthetic lubricant) says "Apply Caliper Lube to pins, slides, bushings, pistons and rubber sleeves and seals." (http://www.permatex.com/component/do...tions&id=24110)

Could the fact that the Permatex is a synthetic lubricant make a difference? It just seems odd that a specialty company, and the standard in brake lube, like Permatex would mess up the directions for their product. I was really surprised to read this on the label and came here to ask/check. The great write-up is a bonus. Thanks.


I think the wording one the Permatex Lube instructions is misleading to a degree. I'm pretty certain their product is intended to be used on the exterior parts of the piston, where the piston meets the brake shim, etc. etc.
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Old 03-13-2013, 01:38 AM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by njdriver04 View Post
I think the wording one the Permatex Lube instructions is misleading to a degree. I'm pretty certain their product is intended to be used on the exterior parts of the piston, where the piston meets the brake shim, etc. etc.
I've contacted Permatex and asked for some clarification. They say they'll respond within 2 days. I'll post the answer for the weekend.
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Old 03-13-2013, 11:09 AM   #109
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i wouldnt put anything on the interior part of the piston (anything that will touch brake fluid). when i re-assembled my 4 and 2 pots, i just used a light coat of brake fluid as an assembling lubricant. personally i dont want anything other than brake fluid in the system. you can put some grease under the lip, where the BOOT seals to the piston, but NOT on the internal piston seal.

use grease on the exterior parts only. IE on the lip of the piston. personally, i dont apply any grease to the caliper itself. i apply the grease directly to the back of the pads instead.
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Old 03-13-2013, 12:05 PM   #110
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I only use brake fluid for lube for rebuilds everything but the boosts gets placed in brake fluid before install and I rub brake fluid on the boots to make them slide on easier other then that if I'm not sandblasting and doing a full resto just doing a basic rebuild doesn't take me more the 20 minutes to rebuild a pair of 4 pots but sliding 2 pots are hell to rebuild because of the boot clips
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Old 03-13-2013, 02:37 PM   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsrcrxsi View Post
i wouldnt put anything on the interior part of the piston (anything that will touch brake fluid). when i re-assembled my 4 and 2 pots, i just used a light coat of brake fluid as an assembling lubricant. personally i dont want anything other than brake fluid in the system. you can put some grease under the lip, where the BOOT seals to the piston, but NOT on the internal piston seal.

use grease on the exterior parts only. IE on the lip of the piston. personally, i dont apply any grease to the caliper itself. i apply the grease directly to the back of the pads instead.
This pretty much
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Old 03-14-2013, 02:21 AM   #112
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Default Permatex Ultra Disc Brake Caliper Lube

Permatex responded to my email to them last night. It probably won't change the habits of some, but hopefully this can at least relieve some of the apprehension of others.

From Permatex:


Ultra Disc Brake Caliper Lube (#24110) will have no negative affects if it comes in contact with brake fluid.
It can be used to aid in the rebuilding of calipers to lubricate the piston.

Thanks,

Curtis Haines
Permatex
Tech. Services Rep.
10 Columbus Boulevard, 5th
Hartford, CT 06106
curtis.haines@permatex.com
Office (860) 543-6954
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Old 03-14-2013, 07:40 AM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dagger108 View Post
Permatex responded to my email to them last night. It probably won't change the habits of some, but hopefully this can at least relieve some of the apprehension of others.

From Permatex:


Ultra Disc Brake Caliper Lube (#24110) will have no negative affects if it comes in contact with brake fluid.
It can be used to aid in the rebuilding of calipers to lubricate the piston.

Thanks,

Curtis Haines
Permatex
Tech. Services Rep.
10 Columbus Boulevard, 5th
Hartford, CT 06106
curtis.haines@permatex.com
Office (860) 543-6954

OP chiming in....based on this if you're messy and happen to get some lube on the pistons don't freak. Personally, using Permatex to coat the pistons prior to reinstallation seems unnecessary.

I've coated the back half of the pistons with brake fluid by finger prior to pushing them back into the calipers, you first feel pressure when the piston comes into contact with the inner ring seal, then it's a matter of equal pressure to seat it fully.

My calipers are going on 15 years old, they make look rough as I have never coated them, but since they are cast iron they will out last the exterior of my rusting GC.
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Old 03-27-2013, 01:33 AM   #114
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beside those UK sites, are there any other US vendor sells the o rings INSIDE the calipers? (between the two halves)

since this thread got some good info, i am going to put some info onto this thread.

i had to split the calipers to do a rebuild. i was able to grab some measurement of the o rings with a caliper

Front(4pot)
OD - 0.4875 in/ 12.38mm
ID - 0.3370 in / 8.56mm
Thickness - 0.0780 in / 1.98mm

Rear(2pot)
OD - 0.6255in / 15.89mm
ID - 0.3900in / 9.91mm
Thickness - 0.080in / 2.03mm

From what i have research, Buna-N (most common) is not good for this, since it is not compatible with brake fluids. Seems like o ring made from Ethylene-Propylene or EPDM (or just EP) o ring will be suitable for this application.

this site: http://www.sealingspecialties.com/materials.htm will show you compatibility of chemicals of o rings, Under Ethylene-Propylene or EPDM, this o ring is sustainable with the temperature of -65F to 300F.

Only things is that 300F for the upper range is too small (water boils at 212F), do you think the internal of the brake will reach 300F?.... Rotors are definitely, piston is most likely, but not sure if the INTERNAL will reach 300F?

closest i found with that material and that size thru grainger. Its not square, and i don't think it matters as long as it seals.

Front : http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/ORing-1WNJ9?Pid=search

Rear: : http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/ORing-5JJV3?Pid=search


Brakes guru, what do you think?

Last edited by darkmist2k1; 03-27-2013 at 02:52 AM.
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Old 03-27-2013, 02:46 AM   #115
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Knsbrakes.com
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Old 03-27-2013, 12:07 PM   #116
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Have you tired McMaster-Carr?

Viton® fluoroelastomer is used in applications requiring chemical and oil resistance. Temperature range is -40° to +400° F. Durometer hardness is A75. Meets ASTM D2000/SAE J200. Color is black.

They have them in 1.9mm thickness with ID's of 8.8 and 9.8mm and just about any ID in 2mm thickness.
http://www.mcmaster.com/#o-rings/=m27hy1
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Old 03-27-2013, 03:07 PM   #117
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Yes i have tried mcmaster, that was the first website i tried, but they only have buna-N and viton.

viton are not THAT compatible with brake fluids.. i checked the specs
http://www.fluidseals.com.au/o-ring_...ion_guide.html

the only three materials are:

Ethylene-Propylene (EPDM) -65F to 300F
http://www.marcorubber.com/epr.htm

AFLAS TFE/P -14F to 392F
http://www.marcorubber.com/aflas.htm

Perfluoroelastomer (FFKM) -4F to 615F
http://www.marcorubber.com/simriz.htm

Last edited by darkmist2k1; 03-28-2013 at 11:48 PM.
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Old 03-27-2013, 03:54 PM   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teiva-boy View Post
Knsbrakes.com
Doesn't have them
Won't try to source them

I've tried.

Also checked McMaster. They don't have anything suitable in a square edge o-ring
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Old 03-27-2013, 04:24 PM   #119
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No?

http://knsbrakes.com/carSeriesDetail...d%20Seal%20Kit

I see they list them as the same p/n but they're different size and quantities?

Dealer?
Opposed Forces P/N

Rear
26697FA000

Front
26297FA050
26297FA051 Alt

Assuming that is per caliper as qty shows 1? Roughly $25

Scratch that ^ just realized you're looking for the split half orings

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Old 03-27-2013, 05:09 PM   #120
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i called z1 and they confirm the oring material is EPDM... and not buna-N

i guess i can tried EPDM first from grainger..

again i dont think it matters if its square or circle shape oring, as long as it seals it will be fine.
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Old 03-27-2013, 06:24 PM   #121
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At the pressures in the brake system, a square oring will seal much better. I'd rather not risk it.
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Old 03-28-2013, 01:25 AM   #122
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Looking closer at assembling the boots (wire hoop on the outside), it is soooo much nicer than on the '02 OEM (wire hoop on the inside). Makes me almost wish I had switch, but our rebuild is a big enough bite out of the backside as it is. Maybe next time.
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Old 03-28-2013, 10:44 AM   #123
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@gsrcrxsi - not true. a circle cross sectional oring will seal just as good as square

here is a published article

http://eden.rutgers.edu/~darkmist/stuff/11805606.pdf
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Old 03-28-2013, 11:16 AM   #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darkmist2k1 View Post
@gsrcrxsi - not true. a circle cross sectional oring will seal just as good as square

here is a published article

http://eden.rutgers.edu/~darkmist/stuff/11805606.pdf
looks like your link is proving me right...

but also they only tested up to 500psi looks like. brake systems are in the 1000-2000psi range.

and since the o-rings sit in a square edge groove (not just 2 flat surfaces butt up to each other), an o-ring with a square cross section is more appropriate and will provide a better seal.
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Old 03-28-2013, 12:42 PM   #125
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im just saying it will seal just as well as the squares...my logic is that since we can't find square brake fluid compatible orings, im trying to find something that can and might work. im not trying to prove anyone wrong or right .. Link i provided just shows circular cross section can achieve that high of a seal compared to square.. nothing more.


beside on this configuration the o-rings are being squeeze together by the two halve. You will get a flat seal after you torque down the calipers together. As long as there are enough material of the cross sectional thickness(OD - ID)..comparing to ones taking out of the calipers. The high psi range is not a problem. Seems like many vendors in the 300zx forum uses the circular ones as replacemnt and i havent found any one reporting that caliper fails with the circular orings. Again im trying to find another alternative and refuse to pay 8 dollars to venders for circular o ring that cost 0.10-.20/ea
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