Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Sunday December 28, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
Click here to visit TireRack
Brakes & Suspension Forum sponsored by The Tire Rack

Losing traction? Need new tires?
Click here to visit the NASIOC Upgrade Garage...
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Brakes, Steering & Suspension

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-10-2005, 07:13 AM   #1
Impreza01
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 152
Join Date: Aug 1999
Vehicle:
2002 Impreza WRX
WRB

Default 2002 wrx brake pads for street/track that still work in winter

I was wondering if there are any street/track pads for the 2002 WRX that work well in the cold. I would have jumped for the Carbotech Bobcats, but their operating temperature is 150 degrees farenheit as the lower limit. I do take my car to the Sierras for snowboarding and don't want to lose braking capabilities.

If there are not street/track pads that can work in the snowy weather, are there any good street pads that can at least hold up to auto-crossing? It seems that the 2002 WRX pads have limited selection due to the damn model no. 721 front pad size as oppose the later year WRX's 929.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Impreza01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2005, 07:24 AM   #2
MBPEJ20
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 24360
Join Date: Sep 2002
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Chicago
Vehicle:
2002 WRX Sedan

Default

The bobcats will be fine for that. I have run them in the Chicago winter, and they stopped fine in the freezing cold.

They will be fine for autox also. But they will not last long at a trackday.
MBPEJ20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2005, 08:19 AM   #3
Impreza01
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 152
Join Date: Aug 1999
Vehicle:
2002 Impreza WRX
WRB

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AznBoy1der
The bobcats will be fine for that. I have run them in the Chicago winter, and they stopped fine in the freezing cold.

They will be fine for autox also. But they will not last long at a trackday.
Thanks. Another question is if the bobcats eat into rotors. I'd be more willing to give up performance for longer rotor life.

I know for full-on road racing track days, dedicated rotors and pads need to be used. I also know that using track-oriented pads is asking for a car kissing a stationary object during cold weather.
Impreza01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2005, 11:21 AM   #4
LyveWRX
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 19057
Join Date: May 2002
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: The Lost Valley, Detroit, MI
Vehicle:
2002 WRX
& Red Ford & '72 CB350

Default

Ferodo DS2500, and Porterfield R4S work when cold. (although that first stop in the morning is kinda sketchy.
LyveWRX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2005, 11:29 AM   #5
MBPEJ20
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 24360
Join Date: Sep 2002
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Chicago
Vehicle:
2002 WRX Sedan

Default

the bobcats won't eat ur rotors.

You don't need dedicated rotors for track, but you do need a set of track pads.

you worry too much. just get the bobcats and forget about it.
MBPEJ20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2005, 11:36 AM   #6
Subie Gal
GC84Ever
Super Moderator
 
Member#: 301
Join Date: Sep 1999
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: WA
Vehicle:
1970 FF-1 & '70 Van
02 WRX/01 RS

Default

EBC Redstuff Ceramics.....

rotor friendly
light dust
light noise
low cost

blah blah...

i love em

Jamie
Subie Gal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2005, 11:47 AM   #7
Orson
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 25254
Join Date: Sep 2002
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Livonia, MI
Vehicle:
2003 WRX wagon

Default

I have the same concerns about cold, especially the first stop of the day in cold climate. After searching through the archives, I found quite a few Bobcat users saying that the first stop of the day can be "hairy" in the cold.

I ended up choosing Hawk HPS as there seemed to be fewer comments in the archives about the first stop of the day. Hawk also claims compliance with FMVSS 135 which includes a cold-braking requirement. (BTW, my prior experience with brake testing is that some of the FMVSS135 requirements can be rather difficult to pass, so I believe they are a reasonable MINIMUM performance requirement.)

P.S. If you haven't seen, I have a set of unused powder-coated '02 WRX calipers with Hawk HPS pads for sale: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=878277 since I decided to go with a BBK.

Last edited by Orson; 11-10-2005 at 12:02 PM.
Orson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2005, 02:08 PM   #8
Impreza01
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 152
Join Date: Aug 1999
Vehicle:
2002 Impreza WRX
WRB

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AznBoy1der
you worry too much. just get the bobcats and forget about it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orson
I have the same concerns about cold, especially the first stop of the day in cold climate. After searching through the archives, I found quite a few Bobcat users saying that the first stop of the day can be "hairy" in the cold.
Apparently I did not worry about it too much. This is the type of info I'm interested in. I would have liked to know about the hairy first stop. Rather than plant my car into another car's rear end.

Besides Hawk HPS, does anyone else have any other recommendations?
Impreza01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2005, 02:54 PM   #9
ChrisDP
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 5879
Join Date: Apr 2001
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Team Shocker Richmond,VA
Vehicle:
'02 STX WRX
STS Civic, ITA Integra

Default

Cobalt GT-Sports... been using them for a while. Stop fine in the cold, first stop in icey cold weather feels like a stock pad. After that they bite harder. They won't have any problem using all the grip cold tires can generate Plus, you will pretty much NEVER fade them autocrossing. The only time I got mine to fade a little bit while autocrossing was on a brake-intensive course when the friction material was literally paper thin. I actually started to rub the backing plate at that point. They were "minorly" overdue for a change, lol.
ChrisDP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2005, 03:41 PM   #10
Orson
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 25254
Join Date: Sep 2002
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Livonia, MI
Vehicle:
2003 WRX wagon

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Impreza01
...
Besides Hawk HPS, does anyone else have any other recommendations?
I think the basic answer is that today, it is still not possible to create a pad that is both:
1) good when completely cold
2) good at high temperatures on the track

You pick "1)" or "2)" depending on what is important to you. I myself drive a lot of freeway miles, so I can drive for an hour before hitting the brakes. When I do, it can sometimes be an emergency situation - I have no time to warm up the pads. Since I rarely do anything other than an occasional Solo 2 event, I elect "1)" as more important.

Axxis Ultimates is often cited as good for street, but I haven't researched it extensively - the overwhelming complaint about them seems to be the dust, which I did not want to accept.
Orson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2005, 04:36 PM   #11
Acostafan
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 67398
Join Date: Aug 2004
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Chattanooga, TN
Vehicle:
2002 Now with 100%
RDA of 2.5l Goodness!!!

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Subie Gal
EBC Redstuff Ceramics.....

rotor friendly
light dust
light noise
low cost

blah blah...

i love em

Jamie

Jamie, I just recently bought these on your recommendation but have yet to install them. How are they for cold stopping? Do they require warm up? Should I be worried about longer stopping distances when cold? BTW, I am pairing these up with Brembo drilled rotors(they're just bling. I know solids are the better rotor...). Thanks!
Acostafan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2005, 08:57 PM   #12
Butt Dyno
Street's closed, pizza boy
 
Member#: 17301
Join Date: Apr 2002
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Why do they always say the Evo
Vehicle:
is the "dark side"
06 Evo #7 STU, 03 IS300

Default

Old post, good post. Everything is a tradeoff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by StopTech
Well, if you had a completely stock car with only 17" wheels and tires, you would want to use a more aggressive pad up front. From a pure friction standpoint, you never want to use a street performance pad on the front of your car on the track. In the rear, you can usually get away with it unless you're running sticky tires and you're really driving the car well. It's so easy to change pads with our calipers, I don't understand why people make such a huge deal out of it. Is it so bad that you would rather have to babyfoot your way around the track with an $1800 brake kit on your car, or would you rather take the 30 minutes to swap in track pads, bed them in, and go out brake everyone else on the track?

Of course you're going to get into the argument of "If I spend that much on a brake it, it should work flawlessly wherever and however I choose to use it." Unfortunately, that's not the case. You could go out and spend $10,000 on the kickass Brembo four wheel kit that's on the Sparco EVO, but you would still be frying high performance street pads at the track. I kid you not.

The fact of the matter is that current friction technology cannot create a pad that:
1. Is totally silent. (Think of the reputation a noisy pad gets on a message board)
2. Doesn't dust. (Think of the reputation that a dusty pad gets on a message board)
3. Has good cold friction. (Think of the lawyers coming to take away your house because the pad you sold as a street pad didn't stop Joe's car first thing in the morning and he plowed into a mother pushing her twins across the street)
4. Is easy on rotors.
5. Leaves rotors perfectly smooth and mirror-polished.
6. Has good pad life.
7. Does not require the "customer service nightmare inducing" bed-in process.
8. Has a stable torque curve.
9. Fades gradually rather than torque falling off quickly(mid-stop).
10. Has good release and modulation characteristics.
11. Has an MOT that will allow aggressive track use.
12. Does not deposit uneven pad material when overheated.
13. Isn't too expensive.
14. Is available in your pad shape.

I apologize if that was a bit too "tongue in cheek," but hopefully it helps people understand just how difficult it is for friction manufacturers to produce the "perfect pad" that we're all looking for. Now that I'm completely off topic, I'll say goodbye.

Tim Kelsch
www.stoptech.com
Butt Dyno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2005, 09:59 PM   #13
Impreza01
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 152
Join Date: Aug 1999
Vehicle:
2002 Impreza WRX
WRB

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ButtDyno
Old post, good post. Everything is a tradeoff.
I read that a long time ago. My purpose of this thread was how many of the points can I get away with!
Impreza01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2005, 10:26 PM   #14
BIGSKYWRX
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 7958
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Plains of Eastern Montana
Vehicle:
09 GH B+

Default

Ferodo DS2500's summer and winter- going on the 3rd (maybe fourth) winter w/ them (not the same set! ). Our winter is a little on the severe side and they bite just fine in the cold.

One of the few pads that can be run at the track (there are better track pads granted) and on the street.

http://www.clubwrx.net/forums/showthread.php?t=117276
BIGSKYWRX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2005, 10:38 PM   #15
Butt Dyno
Street's closed, pizza boy
 
Member#: 17301
Join Date: Apr 2002
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Why do they always say the Evo
Vehicle:
is the "dark side"
06 Evo #7 STU, 03 IS300

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Impreza01
I read that a long time ago. My purpose of this thread was how many of the points can I get away with!
Well any good street pad is still going to work in the cold...

Like you said before... just get a set of dedicated track pads, and use the street pads for everything else. It's an easy swap, especially if you're swapping wheels/tires anyway.

I run Bobcats all year round... other than the first stop of the day being a liiitle slow they are fine. Resolution: either drag the brakes when you start the car or take it easy for the first 5 minutes (which you should be doing anyway in the cold)

john
Butt Dyno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2005, 11:40 PM   #16
Orson
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 25254
Join Date: Sep 2002
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Livonia, MI
Vehicle:
2003 WRX wagon

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ButtDyno
I run Bobcats all year round... other than the first stop of the day being a liiitle slow they are fine. Resolution: either drag the brakes when you start the car or take it easy for the first 5 minutes (which you should be doing anyway in the cold)

john
Everyone's needs will be different. Don't assume that you will always be able to get around this limitation of cold brakes. Take my example of driving on the highway for 30-60 minutes without ever stepping on the brakes. Then, when you do need to step on the brakes, it is for an emergency situation.
Orson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2005, 11:53 PM   #17
kendogg41
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 90822
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Auburn, GA
Vehicle:
1995 LS Swapped Volv
Black

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Subie Gal
EBC Redstuff Ceramics.....

rotor friendly
light dust
light noise
low cost

blah blah...

i love em

Jamie
Not a good plan. My buddy went thru 3 sets of these on his M3 before he finally gave up. They are extremely loud, and stop HORRIBLY, even in summer, till properly warmed up. He used to stand on the brakes at 100 MPH on the highway to get them warmed up so they would actually work right. NOT a good pad for street Green stuff, on the other hand, is a decent street pad.
kendogg41 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2005, 10:41 AM   #18
Acostafan
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 67398
Join Date: Aug 2004
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Chattanooga, TN
Vehicle:
2002 Now with 100%
RDA of 2.5l Goodness!!!

Default

^^^^ Ruh roh, did I buy the wrong pads for the street? I know the old Redstuffs were awful, but the Ceramics are supposed to be good, so says Jamie(why I bought them).

I was gonna put those on this weekend...
Acostafan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2005, 08:14 PM   #19
kendogg41
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 90822
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Auburn, GA
Vehicle:
1995 LS Swapped Volv
Black

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Acostafan
^^^^ Ruh roh, did I buy the wrong pads for the street? I know the old Redstuffs were awful, but the Ceramics are supposed to be good, so says Jamie(why I bought them).

I was gonna put those on this weekend...

Umm, if there's more than 1 version of redstuff's, then, dis-reguard my post. This was as of last summer, that I knew the redstuff's were aweful. If they've updated with something that I'm un-aware of, please inform me, so I don't sway people not to buy things that may actually be good, lol.
kendogg41 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2005, 09:53 PM   #20
Impreza01
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 152
Join Date: Aug 1999
Vehicle:
2002 Impreza WRX
WRB

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ButtDyno
I run Bobcats all year round... other than the first stop of the day being a liiitle slow they are fine. Resolution: either drag the brakes when you start the car or take it easy for the first 5 minutes (which you should be doing anyway in the cold)

john
Can you give me an idea of the increase? If it's only an additional 10 feet for the first 3 stops, I can deal with that.
Impreza01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2005, 09:54 PM   #21
Impreza01
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 152
Join Date: Aug 1999
Vehicle:
2002 Impreza WRX
WRB

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGSKYWRX
Ferodo DS2500's summer and winter- going on the 3rd (maybe fourth) winter w/ them (not the same set! ). Our winter is a little on the severe side and they bite just fine in the cold.

One of the few pads that can be run at the track (there are better track pads granted) and on the street.

http://www.clubwrx.net/forums/showthread.php?t=117276
thanks for the suggestion! I don't care about squeals or dust, but do these eat the rotors?
Impreza01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2005, 10:02 PM   #22
Orson
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 25254
Join Date: Sep 2002
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Livonia, MI
Vehicle:
2003 WRX wagon

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kendogg41
Umm, if there's more than 1 version of redstuff's, then, dis-reguard my post. ...
There is more than one version. There is "red stuff" and "red stuff ceramic".
Orson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2005, 12:59 AM   #23
Javier
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 19346
Join Date: May 2002
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Dirty all the time...
Vehicle:
2003 MBP WRX
Wiseco / Oliver EJ257

Default

I've used bobcats in both my stock calipers and in twr 4-pot calipers in NJ winters which are consistently cold, and I've never had a problem with the first, last, or any stop in between. I have however gotten them to fade like crazy in the summer during a little backwoods canyon run.
Javier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2005, 02:31 AM   #24
Butt Dyno
Street's closed, pizza boy
 
Member#: 17301
Join Date: Apr 2002
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Why do they always say the Evo
Vehicle:
is the "dark side"
06 Evo #7 STU, 03 IS300

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Impreza01
Can you give me an idea of the increase? If it's only an additional 10 feet for the first 3 stops, I can deal with that.
I don't have any problems stopping, I just feel like I need to push the pedal harder than I do normally. I've never drifted into traffic frantically trying to stop the car or anything. Sorry for not being more specific the first time

I've never had problems on the freeway either, after driving for a long time w/o touching the brakes. I would think you'd have to be going pretty fast and not leaving enough following distance in order to have any problems.
Butt Dyno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2005, 08:17 AM   #25
Impreza01
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 152
Join Date: Aug 1999
Vehicle:
2002 Impreza WRX
WRB

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ButtDyno
I don't have any problems stopping, I just feel like I need to push the pedal harder than I do normally. I've never drifted into traffic frantically trying to stop the car or anything. Sorry for not being more specific the first time

I've never had problems on the freeway either, after driving for a long time w/o touching the brakes. I would think you'd have to be going pretty fast and not leaving enough following distance in order to have any problems.
Thanks, now the last thing is can you recommend me a vender for the Bobcats?

For those who know, is there a site for the Ferrodo DS2500? I think I'm gonna try either one and then stick with one.
Impreza01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
FS: 2002 WRX race car STi street/track build yellow_snow RMIC Private Classifieds 17 07-14-2008 11:44 AM
Brake pads for street/occasional track use quelegal Brakes, Steering & Suspension 6 05-04-2005 12:55 PM
Stock STI brake pads for the track? red5001 Brakes, Steering & Suspension 18 11-14-2003 09:44 PM
Need brake pads for a track day, where do I get Hawk HP plus? Chris51080 Brakes, Steering & Suspension 6 06-24-2003 12:59 AM
Brake pads for the track? Ru fan New England Impreza Club Forum -- NESIC 5 02-13-2002 07:12 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:02 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.