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Old 11-17-2005, 05:44 PM   #1
DJ 9iron
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News If GM goes bankrupt, they deserve to. (Opinions on Unions?)

Quote:
Earlier this week, the United Auto Workers union, which represents workers at both GM and Delphi, flatly rejected a revised pay proposal from Delphi, further raising fears that negotiations will break down and lead to a strike. Delphi's revised proposal raised the average wage for its 35,000 blue-collar workers in the U.S. from $10 an hour to $12.50, with benefits taking the total package to $21 an hour. But this remains less than a third of the $65 an hour Delphi pays today....

In the letter, Wagoner points to the "robust" balance sheet and liquidity of the company and sticks to this year's plan to revamp the U.S. business, which involves new vehicles, cost-cuts, a $1 billion a year healthcare deal with unions approved last Friday and changes to sales and marketing......

He also makes no mention in the letter of the impact of Delphi's bankruptcy, which GM has estimated could cost it up to $12 billion, although more likely about $6 billion. In addition, Delphi executives have said they want GM to contribute to the cost of its restructuring by paying its workers lump sums to help cushion the blow of job losses and big pay and benefit cuts.

They get paid to sit and play video games with full benefits. Hooray for unions.
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Old 11-17-2005, 05:47 PM   #2
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HEY

I only play video game THREE hours a night.





and the other 5 hours i work, i move 75lb truck door frames.
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Old 11-17-2005, 05:49 PM   #3
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Old 11-17-2005, 05:51 PM   #4
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according to an article in the WSJ monday, that "$10/hour" figure used to be in the 20's and most of these workers have had their salaries cut almost in half over the last 3 years...

on the other hand, i still hate unions.
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Old 11-17-2005, 05:53 PM   #5
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Cutting your salary from 65 dollars an hour to 12.50 is not right at all though. Yes, the problem with the union is they can't fire the people they need to, but its not like the union is saying "oh, we're not accepting anything less then 95% of our current pay.) I guess my point is both sides are to blame.
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Old 11-17-2005, 05:54 PM   #6
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There is no doubt that if GM doesn't fix something they will go bankrupt within the next 5 to 10 years. They have so much cash and other assets that it will probably take that long until it happens. The unions have indeed hurt GM, as labor costs are about $8 billion/year, and legacy costs(retired peoples healthcare) are about $6 billion/year. But the labor contracts are set to expire in 2007. As long as GM understands that they need to lower costs and restructure their business they should be ok. There have been tons of analysts that have given their 2 cents on what they should do. One idea is to cut Pontiac, Buick, Saab, Hummer, GMC, and become a smaller company with fewer brands. Let Chevy be their car and truck brand, Cadillac be their luxury brand, and Saturn be their youth, european styled brand. They also need to put more money into Research and Development as Toyota puts about $16billion/year with only 32 models, while GM does $7 billion/year with 80 models...you do the math. Japanese companies have proven that the US public wants highly technological cars that change every few years, with the latest and greatest technology.
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Old 11-17-2005, 05:56 PM   #7
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the $65 is what it "costs" Delphi to employ them for an hour. it's split up across benefits (apparantly Delphi has a pretty awesome benefits package) and other stuff. but the workers used to receive more of that $65 in the form of salary.
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Old 11-17-2005, 05:56 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ 9iron
They get paid to sit and play video games with full benefits. Hooray for unions.
That is almost as bad as the idiotic executives that actually put GM into this position that go out and play golf all day and get paid many times what their counterparts in all other countries are paid.

THe unions might need to make concession, but they aren't the ones that made the awful, awful business decisions over the last 20 years that put GM in the horrible spot that they are in today.
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Old 11-17-2005, 05:58 PM   #9
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Yea, I mean I doubt they're making 135k a year, but going from even 60k to about 24k a year is going to get a "no." Especially when these people have families, I can barely support myself on 9 bucks an hour.
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Old 11-17-2005, 06:00 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bailey454
according to an article in the WSJ monday, that "$10/hour" figure used to be in the 20's and most of these workers have had their salaries cut almost in half over the last 3 years...

on the other hand, i still hate unions.

Well you almost close..

If this happens, My pay would go from 27.41 an hour to 10 an hour. This is NOT including the 10% 3rd shift premium i recieve and my C.O.L.A.

What you all dont understand and seem to make fun of the GM employees is this
NOT everyone that works there is lazy. The people who do work hard, out weigh the crappy workers.

Ergonomicly, My job is rotated every half hour there are 2 jobs that each take 2 people to do. So the schedule is this.
Load for 30 mins. This consist of inspecting each door frame that comes off the line for secure welds. Each door panel weighs 75+ lbs. and we move ~150 door frames a half hour.
Check and mark- 2 person job. we Check and Mark EACH weld on EACH panel and make sure that all holes have been pressed out. We also tag each pack for the dock.
The third spot is a 1/2 hour break.. So 6 people do these three jobs.

So yeah, you can whine all you want about us, but until you do these jobs.. back off.
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Old 11-17-2005, 06:01 PM   #11
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Oh and to add to all that. YOu cant say that people are living outside their means with the pay.. Most employees live moderate lives, with kids and normal lifestyles..
this pay cut will put ALOT of familys near the bankruptcy state.
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Old 11-17-2005, 06:01 PM   #12
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if you only make 9 bucks an hour, you prolly need to get a better job, unless you are a college student that can only work part time, you really hsould be makin more then that....
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Old 11-17-2005, 06:03 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 97whitesi
if you only make 9 bucks an hour, you prolly need to get a better job, unless you are a college student that can only work part time, you really hsould be makin more then that....
Yes, I'm a college student, but none of my co-workers are, and only two of us are in our twenties. There are about 10 people total here.
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Old 11-17-2005, 06:03 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CougarGirl

So yeah, you can whine all you want about us, but until you do these jobs.. back off.
where is that? i grew up in columbus and i didn't know GM doors were made there.
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Old 11-17-2005, 06:04 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 97whitesi
if you only make 9 bucks an hour, you prolly need to get a better job, unless you are a college student that can only work part time, you really hsould be makin more then that....
That would be fine if everyone working at Delphi and Gm was around 19-20 years old.. most are not.. average age of an employee is around 37 averageing around 2 kids per employee, aprox..
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Old 11-17-2005, 06:04 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bailey454
where is that? i grew up in columbus and i didn't know GM doors were made there.
I work for GM in Mansfield,i transferred from Delphi, in Dayton.
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Old 11-17-2005, 06:07 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bailey454
the $65 is what it "costs" Delphi to employ them for an hour. it's split up across benefits (apparantly Delphi has a pretty awesome benefits package) and other stuff. but the workers used to receive more of that $65 in the form of salary.
Benefits are the same as GM.

Vision SUCKS.. Dental is ok.

the Regular health insurance is really the best part...
I guess i should also point out, I hate my job. ABSOLUTELY hate it. I am quitting in a few weeks.
I detest my job more than anything i have ever hated in my life.. but i WILL say this, it has given me a decent life. And it also suports well over half of my family.
My grandfather and Uncle both retired from GM at 35 years... LONG faithful years.. My grandfather lost a finger there. My uncle was ont eh barganing committee for the national agreements. My Father works there (he is a newer employee, hired in only 4 years ago as skilled trades, same as my uncle and grandfather) I have an Aunt and another Uncle both there too.. My othe uncle is 3 years away from retireing and my aunt is 7 years in.

I hate to see the company go under..

But they are the devil

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Old 11-17-2005, 06:10 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazdaz
That is almost as bad as the idiotic executives that actually put GM into this position that go out and play golf all day and get paid many times what their counterparts in all other countries are paid.

THe unions might need to make concession, but they aren't the ones that made the awful, awful business decisions over the last 20 years that put GM in the horrible spot that they are in today.

No. Break it down like this:

a) 1968 is not 2005
b) GM 1968 does not operate in the same enviroment as 2005 GM
c) 1968 cost of living (ie Healthcare) is not what it is in 2005
d) 1968 GM had 2 competitors, since GM has decided to break into EVERY segment, GM has 20 competitors in 2005.
e) 1968 Union labor costs are not the anchor they are in 2005
f) 1968 profit margins are larger than they are in 2005
g) 1968 raw materials were the largest input to building cars, labor now is in 2005.


The Unions are just as much to blame as CEO's on why GM is the way GM is today.
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Old 11-17-2005, 06:11 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CougarGirl
Benefits are the same as GM.

Vision SUCKS.. Dental is ok.

the Regular health insurance is really the best part...
Welcome to corporate america. Most companies are like that.
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Old 11-17-2005, 06:12 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXedUSA
No. Break it down like this:

a) 1968 is not 2005
b) GM 1968 does not operate in the same enviroment as 2005 GM
c) 1968 cost of living (ie Healthcare) is not what it is in 2005
d) 1968 GM had 2 competitors, since GM has decided to break into EVERY segment, GM has 20 competitors in 2005.
e) 1968 Union labor costs are not the anchor they are in 2005
f) 1968 profit margins are larger than they are in 2005
g) 1968 raw materials were the largest input to building cars, labor now is in 2005.


The Unions are just as much to blame as CEO's on why GM is the way GM is today.
1235... and 4
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Old 11-17-2005, 06:14 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KC
Welcome to corporate america. Most companies are like that.
I am fully aware of that.

I was stating they are NOT as great as every one thinks they are.
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Old 11-17-2005, 06:15 PM   #22
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i wish our us work stats were like europe

32hr work weeks - manatory 1 month "holiday"
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Old 11-17-2005, 06:16 PM   #23
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is that under skilled or unskilled labor?
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Old 11-17-2005, 06:16 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMcCrackin
i wish our us work stats were like europe

32hr work weeks - manatory 1 month "holiday"
do you wish our unemployment was like europes?
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Old 11-17-2005, 06:26 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 97whitesi
is that under skilled or unskilled labor?
is WHAT under that?
the holiday rule?
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