Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Tuesday September 30, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Transmission (AT/MT) & Driveline

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-22-2005, 08:15 PM   #1
XenoWolf
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 64029
Join Date: Jun 2004
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Potsdam, NY (Tremont, PA)
Vehicle:
1999 Impreza L Wagon
Sun Bleach Red

Default So who else has tried to double clutch into R

... double clutch into reverse.

I tried it once back when I was a complete noob to driving stick (and didn't know **** about transmissions). I've never heard such a horrifying sound come from my gearbox. Just clearing my concience and wondering whoelse has done this..
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
XenoWolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2005, 08:21 PM   #2
02WHITEDUB
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 96793
Join Date: Sep 2005
Chapter/Region: W. Canada
Location: Edmonton
Vehicle:
02 ProTuned TD04
Now with more clunks!

Default

What does that mean, exactly?

You're stopped, pump the clutch, and pull it into reverse?

Yes, you'll hear a bit of a clunk/grind/noise from time to time. Don't worry, it's because the reverse gear is straight-cut and harder to mate together.

If you're moving more than 1"/second it will probably grind like crazy if you try to find reverse.

If you're having trouble engaging reverse, try rolling the car even the tiniest bit and it will slide right in.
02WHITEDUB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2005, 08:27 PM   #3
Bman
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 64351
Join Date: Jun 2004
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Portland ME
Vehicle:
2005 Legacy GT

Default

When you were moving forward? Did that once, terrible grinding noise.
Bman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2005, 08:31 PM   #4
kcook
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 78074
Join Date: Dec 2004
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: NoVA
Vehicle:
2005 STi
Aspen White

Default

i get a grinding noise almost everytime... when the cars not level... or its barely moving... or anything. it usually takes me 2 tries if i just get off work or out of the gym or some place where i get tired... but if im like doing a uturn and i need to reverse... i get it on a dime but, usually takes me 2 tries to get it in reverse... IMO out of all the stick cars ive driven, mines been the hardest to get into reverse
kcook is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2005, 08:32 PM   #5
XenoWolf
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 64029
Join Date: Jun 2004
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Potsdam, NY (Tremont, PA)
Vehicle:
1999 Impreza L Wagon
Sun Bleach Red

Default

To clarify, I was rolling forward ~5mph, moved to neutral, let out the clutch, revved, disengaged the clutch, and shifted. It doesn't work, I didn't really know what a synchronized gear was back then, let alone that reverse wasn't one of them.
XenoWolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2005, 08:36 PM   #6
02WHITEDUB
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 96793
Join Date: Sep 2005
Chapter/Region: W. Canada
Location: Edmonton
Vehicle:
02 ProTuned TD04
Now with more clunks!

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by XenoWolf
To clarify, I was rolling forward ~5mph, moved to neutral, let out the clutch, revved, disengaged the clutch, and shifted. It doesn't work.
That's one of those things you only do once I have
02WHITEDUB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2005, 08:42 PM   #7
rally_on
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 86849
Join Date: May 2005
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Vehicle:
2005 GMC Savana
white

Default

in my miata, i can swing the car around 180 degrees in a drift and slam it into reverse and keep going the same direction the i started you in, JUST THE THE FAST AND THE FURIOUS... but 10x slower... and in the rain...



-Greg
rally_on is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2005, 08:57 PM   #8
Hogie
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 97017
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Louisville, KY
Vehicle:
1972 240z
yellow

Default

I almost always have to shift into neutral and let clutch out, push back in clutch and then grab reverse. I thought this was another one of the Subaru idiosyncracies that everyone of us lived with and loved?
Hogie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2005, 09:42 PM   #9
02WHITEDUB
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 96793
Join Date: Sep 2005
Chapter/Region: W. Canada
Location: Edmonton
Vehicle:
02 ProTuned TD04
Now with more clunks!

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rally_on
in my miata, i can swing the car around 180 degrees in a drift and slam it into reverse and keep going the same direction the i started you in, JUST THE THE FAST AND THE FURIOUS... but 10x slower... and in the rain...



-Greg
Yes, but are the wheels locked while you engage reverse? You could probably do that in a Subie...not that I'm about to try.

I can do forward 360s on snow w/ a FWD car!
02WHITEDUB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2005, 10:58 PM   #10
Shavenyak
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 7156
Join Date: Jun 2001
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Montrose, CA
Vehicle:
1999 Jeep Cherokee
Blue

Default

When I had my WRX, I couldn't GET INTO reverse without "double clutching" it from a stop.

--Roman
Shavenyak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2005, 07:52 AM   #11
XenoWolf
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 64029
Join Date: Jun 2004
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Potsdam, NY (Tremont, PA)
Vehicle:
1999 Impreza L Wagon
Sun Bleach Red

Default

Well, from a stop I usually either have to engage/release the clutch or pump the brakes once to get it into reverse.
XenoWolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2005, 09:25 AM   #12
thorongil
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 58797
Join Date: Apr 2004
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Vehicle:
2011 Legacy 2.5i
Steel Silver

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 02WHITEDUB
Don't worry, it's because the reverse gear is straight-cut and harder to mate together.
Our transmissions don't "mate" gears together, do they? I was under the impression that the gears in a gear set are always mated together. When we shift, we are merely selecting which set of gears to use. It's the job of the synchros to help the dog teeth to engage the gear set we select. My general understanding of transmission comes from How Stuff Works, so please correct me if I'm wrong. (By the way, the fifth or sixth page discusses the noise you hear when shifting into reverse.)
thorongil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2005, 02:38 PM   #13
darksands
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 75122
Join Date: Nov 2004
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Im in a glass case of emotion
Vehicle:
2005 Impreza WRX
Crystal Gray

Default

Well, you are correct. BUt that is a dogbox transmission that your talking about. Our transmissions, you have to select the gears you want and then engage them, when you shift, you engage gears. In a dog box, all gears are always engaged. In a dog box, the gears are straight cut making more noise. Our reverse gear is straight cut and out regular 1-5 or 6 are helical cut gears.

When you double clutch, all your doing is matching the speed of the gears so they align better. if you are moving forward, and want to go into reverse, you dont try to match the speed to go into gear. I only use double clutching when I down shift and even then, you really dont need to do that couse we have syncros. I just started doing it for practice and it turned into a habit.
darksands is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2005, 03:01 PM   #14
Crazykev
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 93667
Join Date: Aug 2005
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Cincinnati,Oh
Vehicle:
'03 Build'n a 2.12L
331whp/331wtq

Default

All the gears but the reverse gears are mated and you are sliding synchro hubs to engage gears. Reverse has a idler gear that mates up with the 1st/2nd synchro hub to engage reverse. That hub gear and reverse idle gear are the only ones not always meshed together.

Kevin
Crazykev is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2005, 04:18 PM   #15
ElmnTfrliF
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 72708
Join Date: Oct 2004
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Omaha, NE
Vehicle:
2005 STi
2009 CBR600RR

Default

You can't "double clutch" reverse while your moving forward! thats just stupid! its like trying to double clutch 1st while your rolling backwards, your making the gears go the opposite way you want them to even faster
ElmnTfrliF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2005, 02:48 PM   #16
AndrewtechAutomotive
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 99694
Join Date: Nov 2005
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: 94 Legacy Right-hand,
Vehicle:
2002 dogbox,'11 wrx

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by darksands
Well, you are correct. BUt that is a dogbox transmission that your talking about. Our transmissions, you have to select the gears you want and then engage them, when you shift, you engage gears. In a dog box, all gears are always engaged. In a dog box, the gears are straight cut making more noise. Our reverse gear is straight cut and out regular 1-5 or 6 are helical cut gears.

When you double clutch, all your doing is matching the speed of the gears so they align better. if you are moving forward, and want to go into reverse, you dont try to match the speed to go into gear. I only use double clutching when I down shift and even then, you really dont need to do that couse we have syncros. I just started doing it for practice and it turned into a habit.
Unfortunately, this isn't exactly correct.

Dog transmissions and synchro transmissions are very similar except in how they actually select the gear.

With a dogbox, you directly engage the shift collar to the gear. With a synchro, there is a brass ring that aids the shift collar into gear. Of course, this is an extremely simple explanation of how a synchro works.

Reverse is the ONLY gear in our transmission that isn't always engaged. With Reverse, you are actually sliding an idler gear between the first/second shift collar, and the reverse gear machined on the input shaft. It IS synchronized, and it DOES often grind when the idler is unable to slide between the collar and the input shaft.

To prevent this, simply shift into 4th (or any other gear, obviously not 5th), and then into reverse. This will stop the internals of the transmission from moving, and make it easier.

Revmatching doesn't really work, because the input shaft and the output shaft counter-rotate. Blipping the throttle while in neutral will spin up the input shaft, making it even LESS likely for it to engage into reverse. You need to STOP the input shaft in order for the idler to slide into place.

Phil
Andrewtech Automotive
AndrewtechAutomotive is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2005, 03:10 PM   #17
jtmcinder
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 80430
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: loosening gas-caps on RX8s
Vehicle:
1997 Eagle Talon
(plus a Legacy beater)

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewtechAutomotive
Unfortunately, this isn't exactly correct.
You are way too polite. - Jtoby
jtmcinder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2005, 08:28 AM   #18
Dave_Clark
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 1015
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Seattle, WA, USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by XenoWolf
To clarify, I was rolling forward ~5mph, moved to neutral, let out the clutch, revved, disengaged the clutch, and shifted. It doesn't work, I didn't really know what a synchronized gear was back then, let alone that reverse wasn't one of them.

Actually, in your transmission reverse IS one of them. Synchronized, that is. Sort of...
Dave_Clark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2005, 12:37 PM   #19
REX8
*** Banned ***
 
Member#: 24038
Join Date: Sep 2002
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Godspeed Cale...
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElmnTfrliF
You can't "double clutch" reverse while your moving forward! thats just stupid! its like trying to double clutch 1st while your rolling backwards, your making the gears go the opposite way you want them to even faster
+100. You made the problem worse with the throttle blip. You send them spinning in oposite directions instead of together...
REX8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2005, 12:44 PM   #20
XenoWolf
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 64029
Join Date: Jun 2004
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Potsdam, NY (Tremont, PA)
Vehicle:
1999 Impreza L Wagon
Sun Bleach Red

Default

I realized that approximately .05 seconds after I tried it.

I'm not looking for a lecture (I read up alot on transmissions lately so I know why it won't work), I was just curious as to how many newbies tried it too.
XenoWolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
So who else has a transmission cooler? ws6fiero Legacy Forum 7 04-11-2004 08:05 PM
So who else has Monday (16th) off? Yotsuya Mid West Subaru Owners Club Forum -- MWSOC 27 02-13-2004 08:42 PM
So who else has Martin Luther King Jr. Day off from work? Stroke Off-Topic 53 01-18-2004 09:11 PM
So who else has paint missing on their door handles? Hank3 Interior & Exterior Modification 3 09-10-2003 10:41 AM
So who else has school starting up agian? motorcitywrx Mid West Subaru Owners Club Forum -- MWSOC 18 08-26-2003 02:55 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:19 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.