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Old 12-21-2007, 01:41 AM   #276
PentUpWrx
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I did the exact same thing as you cobb to ecutec, the difference was nite an day 235ish wheel with the ots map 265 with Pats. the key is in the torque curve, hp is just a tool. If you want a car that is a blast to drive see Pat. My tuned vf34 would beat down an ots anyday. 265whp on a dd with a vf34 is extremely good. make sure your pipes plugs gas etc is top of the line, makes a huge difference.

“Horsepower sells cars; torque wins races” i guess the same can be said for dyno numbers an tuners...
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Old 12-21-2007, 02:09 AM   #277
Splinter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brendan_mac View Post
Ryan's run was unusually high for a VF34. Although you'll have a front mount, so...

I think they're usually 250ish with a top mount.
That doesnt make much sense

The 34 is a much more capable turbo than the VF24, and I hit 278 with the 24...
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Old 12-21-2007, 02:20 AM   #278
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FMIC isn't really a big hp improver though.

**waits for tuner
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Old 12-21-2007, 02:59 AM   #279
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Originally Posted by 007WRX View Post
FMIC isn't really a big hp improver though.

Well I know but VF24 = 278 but VF34 = 250??
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Old 12-21-2007, 03:53 AM   #280
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the vf34 is usually between 240 - 255 with 'exceptional' setups netting a bit more, ghetto setups netting a bit less (the worst was 235). This is a Dyno Dynamics dyno which even "independent" tuners like Tim B. and others rate at 18% lower on their "shelf map dyno plots" so you can use that as an independent verification, if you like.

splinters car is not like your WRX, so dont compare. Primarily, he has a standalone, and wanted us to play with it on the dyno to get is as best as possible. Most importantly, it can take more boost than your cars, and it does.

FMIC is a big improver in some circumstances, in others it is not. If the turbo is totally out of steam it usually does not move the 'top end' number too much. It all depends on the exhaust flow and turbo efficiency. With these flow limited turbos (i.e. IHI vf-anything) you guys should really be ignoring the hp number and looking at the torque gains, because in reality the top hp isn't going to change much unless you do something major to either increase the turbo efficiency or cool down the air (by a lot).

I have a vf30 car that puts out over 280 but again, its not like a standard setup and it is FMIC... but when you have cobbled together parts that are "supposed to be hawt" and you are tasked with making them work in a 1hr tune, its always an issue.

p.s. if your car has 100k km, original plugs, crappy air box, ebay exhaust with a "silencer that isn't supposed to rob HP", vac leaks, dont expect it to be on the higher end of things.

p.p.s time on the dyno == better results. So if you want a 1 hr tune, you will obvisouly net less than a 3hr tune. Sometimes, someone booked for a 3hr tune has their car unloaded after 1hr because "thats all she wrote". It depends on the setup, that is what the tuning form we send out to potential customers is all about.
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Old 12-21-2007, 04:03 AM   #281
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with VF34, STI injectors, STI TMIC, APS CAI, Pulleys, TBE

I was able to get 253whp on the RR dyno. Good torque, very responsive turbo. This is on my old stock 2.0l block.

I wouldnt recommend a Front mounted VF34 though, i had it for a few weeks while waiting for my 20g. It was Laggy without reward up top.
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Old 12-21-2007, 04:07 AM   #282
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also.. I really like early torque. So when i look at dyno's i dont just fixate on the max WHP. It's kinda pointless to have 300whp @ 6000rpm coupled with 120-150ftlbs of torque at 3000rpm.

It just becomes more a dyno queen car.
Bigger turbo + FMIC = Need more displacement.

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Old 12-21-2007, 04:18 AM   #283
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Yeah. I wouldn't do an FMIC on a 2.0 with those turbos on a stock WRX block. On a 2.5, I would if it was something I was after for a specific purpose. There are over a dozen lower mainland 2.5s with vf39s or 30s or 34s with just FMIC and injectors... all decent, but not like something that a bigger turbo wouldn't do. Its mostly guys who want not much lag with more midrange. With the new lower HFS-5 pricing it does the same thing, for the same amount of money, but isn't as "sexy".

Malcolm (used to be here but is done), Pentup WRX, and a few other non-forum guys have hit over 260 on a 34, then again, there is about half a dozen guys under 250. Its all about the rest of the car (assuming you are starting with a new turbo).
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Old 12-21-2007, 05:13 AM   #284
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I guess thats one thing I didnt mention, my car was on the dyno for a solid 7 hours.
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Old 12-21-2007, 06:23 AM   #285
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my ears still hurt.
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Old 12-21-2007, 11:07 AM   #286
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Ya i was not going to fmic it, but I said what the heck. Hopefully a bigger turbo next year.
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Old 12-21-2007, 12:18 PM   #287
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patr View Post
my ears still hurt.
At least the seats were comfy
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Old 12-21-2007, 01:41 PM   #288
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Pat, what sort of setup before and after a turbo swap would net more gains lower in the rev range?
Would good tuning and some bolt ons be the most effective? Oh, I am talking about 2.0l as well.

Splinter what setup is that? Any more details?
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Old 12-21-2007, 02:40 PM   #289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buster View Post
Pat, what sort of setup before and after a turbo swap would net more gains lower in the rev range?
Would good tuning and some bolt ons be the most effective? Oh, I am talking about 2.0l as well.

Splinter what setup is that? Any more details?

In my experience with pat's tuning. Bang for buck and good low end power for 2.0l would be

-VF34 (vf39 used if you're on a budget)

-STI TMIC (or good aftermarket brand)

-Aftermarket Intake if you plan on going bigger turbo eventually, if not then an aftermarket one doenst help too much on the VF34 size level.

-STI injectors (or similar)

-Fuel pump (walbro i guess)

- New plugs shouldnt hurt either.

----------------------------

250whp with good low end torque is better than 300whp with no low end at all -- in all cases. (tested.. ahha)

----------------------------

After that, if you're still power hungry, i'd suggest you refrain and start doing more suspension mods, and/or mods that speed up the engines response time. Ie: stiff motor/tranny mounts, pulleys, etc. Just the minor stuff.

----------------------------------

VF34 with FMIC wasnt horrible -- it just lacked top end. But it sure looks nice with higher numbers on the dyno.

I believe when i had the VF34 with FMIC, it was pushing 300whp -- but it didnt feel like it till i got the 2.5l block.
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Old 12-21-2007, 03:06 PM   #290
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I have really been struggling for awhile what to do but I autox and am less interested in swapping the turbo yet. I have done some suspension too.

I was thinking about the STI, topmount, Pump, and injectors anyway in case I do decide to do the turbo. If I could tune this setup for as much low end as possible that would be gravy. Thanks Happy.
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Old 12-21-2007, 04:47 PM   #291
Happy_Days
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buster View Post
I have really been struggling for awhile what to do but I autox and am less interested in swapping the turbo yet. I have done some suspension too.

I was thinking about the STI, topmount, Pump, and injectors anyway in case I do decide to do the turbo. If I could tune this setup for as much low end as possible that would be gravy. Thanks Happy.
Well to be super critical about lag.. Even the VF34 needs a small bit of spool time (/time to fill the pipes) before the power comes in. But then you would adjust your driving a bit right?

Maybe just go for good 'ol cobb stage 2 with the stock turbo then.
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Old 12-21-2007, 05:21 PM   #292
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Thanks for the input guys!
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Old 12-22-2007, 02:09 PM   #293
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy_Days View Post
Maybe just go for good 'ol cobb stage 2 with the stock turbo then.
That's what he currently has

The old man just wants to catch up to my car's speed

ps: pat, gord and the crew rock
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Old 12-22-2007, 02:34 PM   #294
Splinter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buster View Post
Pat, what sort of setup before and after a turbo swap would net more gains lower in the rev range?
Would good tuning and some bolt ons be the most effective? Oh, I am talking about 2.0l as well.

Splinter what setup is that? Any more details?
Built V4 STI Type RA, ported heads, blah blah
Stock VF24 turbo
Ebay frontmount kit
LinkPlus V14 standalone
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Old 12-22-2007, 02:35 PM   #295
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^Decided not to go with the vf34?
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Old 12-22-2007, 02:58 PM   #296
Splinter
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On Pats advice.
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Old 12-22-2007, 04:48 PM   #297
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just to be clear that advise was based on this particular situation/vehicle/budget/individual and should not be generalized to anything. In other words, dont go out looking for vf24s.
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Old 12-22-2007, 04:50 PM   #298
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buster View Post
I have really been struggling for awhile what to do but I autox and am less interested in swapping the turbo yet. I have done some suspension too.

I was thinking about the STI, topmount, Pump, and injectors anyway in case I do decide to do the turbo. If I could tune this setup for as much low end as possible that would be gravy. Thanks Happy.
do that with a spooley turbo (vf anything but a 22) and you will be happy (the 34/30/39s arent laggy but they are laggier than the stock td04, but not by anything very harmful). For the ultimate in low end torque get the vf37/36 with a set of twin scroll jdm manifolds. or get a rotated turbo with a small turbine.
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Old 12-22-2007, 06:18 PM   #299
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amarpauld View Post
That's what he currently has

The old man just wants to catch up to my car's speed

ps: pat, gord and the crew rock
Lol...shouldn't that be the other way around?!

Thanks Pat, I'll research the vf36/37 setup a little. Otherwise I'd probably just stick to the VF34 or get some mild work done to a stock TD04.
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Old 12-22-2007, 07:40 PM   #300
Splinter
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I'm willing to sell my VF34 for what I paid for it... its a deadbolt unit. Pat said they sometimes have trouble with them.

I'd refund you if it didnt work for whatever reason.
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