Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Monday December 29, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
Vancouver Impreza Club
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Chapters > Vancouver Impreza Club Forum -- VIC

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-06-2008, 10:40 PM   #476
32rulz
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 139860
Join Date: Feb 2007
Chapter/Region: VIC
Location: HK
Vehicle:
02 Bugeye & GTR33

Default

My dyno from RR yesterday.
Stage 2.

Great service from Pat.

* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
32rulz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2008, 04:20 PM   #477
FunkMasta
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 66985
Join Date: Jul 2004
Chapter/Region: VIC
Location: Coquitlam, B.C. Canada
Vehicle:
2001 2.5RS sold
2012 2.0 Hatch

Default

i want your torque curve.
FunkMasta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2008, 12:08 AM   #478
tora
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 5851
Join Date: Apr 2001
Chapter/Region: VIC
Location: Vancouver
Vehicle:
09 Forester XT
+ NA Miata

Default

Mmmm...why doesn't Volvo have tunable software. I want to go back to RR for a tune but Volvo don't let me! C63AMG....here I come.
tora is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2008, 11:11 PM   #479
alcoolaid
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 134949
Join Date: Dec 2006
Chapter/Region: VIC
Location: Vancouver, BC
Vehicle:
'07 SWP STi
Instagram | arthurlam89

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aspect View Post
Yeah, similar problem with the 335...there is reflash software for it, but the maps they have been releasing are pretty crap (giving CELs and stuff) and when I was looking into it a little while ago, no reflash setups had a protune option.
A lot of the 335 guys are using this. Make HUGE power on a stock car.

http://www.burgertuning.com/
alcoolaid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2008, 11:47 PM   #480
RX Renesis
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 108624
Join Date: Feb 2006
Chapter/Region: VIC
Location: Vancouver, B.C.
Vehicle:
'06 SlowBaLow
MEISTER

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tora View Post
Mmmm...why doesn't Volvo have tunable software. I want to go back to RR for a tune but Volvo don't let me! C63AMG....here I come.
y didnt u go for a c63 in the first place?
RX Renesis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2008, 12:43 AM   #481
tora
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 5851
Join Date: Apr 2001
Chapter/Region: VIC
Location: Vancouver
Vehicle:
09 Forester XT
+ NA Miata

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RX Renesis View Post
y didnt u go for a c63 in the first place?
It didn't exist when I bought my car.
tora is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2008, 01:24 AM   #482
RX Renesis
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 108624
Join Date: Feb 2006
Chapter/Region: VIC
Location: Vancouver, B.C.
Vehicle:
'06 SlowBaLow
MEISTER

Default

^ah i see. still, u should've waited lol.
RX Renesis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2008, 01:54 AM   #483
tora
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 5851
Join Date: Apr 2001
Chapter/Region: VIC
Location: Vancouver
Vehicle:
09 Forester XT
+ NA Miata

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RX Renesis View Post
^ah i see. still, u should've waited lol.
Thanks for the advice...
tora is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2008, 05:52 PM   #484
patr
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 97
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Vancouver, BC, CANADA
Default

I've had a bunch of stock, and tuned, 335s on the dyno.

Lets just say that what is out there in the aftermarket is about as refined/developed as the "Shiv RS turbo kit"
patr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2008, 01:06 AM   #485
j-velocity
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 193720
Join Date: Nov 2008
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by j-velocity View Post
posting for a friend of mine:
Got a question....
Posting for a friend of mine as well.
We did another dyno pull on Mustang dyno at Racing Greed and this is the result:

294whp and 299wtq
The two dynos are done with exactly same set up.
Mustand dyno was done on a much cooler condition and in 3rd gear but Dyno Dynamic was in 4th gear.
They did another 4th gear pull on Mustang Dyno but the number didn't have much difference.
Anyone knows what happened?
thanks

Last edited by j-velocity; 12-13-2008 at 07:14 PM.
j-velocity is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2008, 03:54 AM   #486
j-velocity
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 193720
Join Date: Nov 2008
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aspect View Post
What happened is they are 2 different dynos with different setups and configurations. Read the first few pages of this thread.
I do understand that different dynos have different setups and configurations.

A stock STi ~ 210whp on Dyno Dynamics
A stock STi ~ 230whp on Mustang Dyno

How come this car have 137whp difference on Dyno Dynamics but only 64whp difference on Mustang Dyno

Please help me understand this...
j-velocity is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2008, 12:30 PM   #487
squashman
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 71718
Join Date: Oct 2004
Chapter/Region: W. Canada
Vehicle:
07 STI LTD
SWP

Default

^Aside from being the worst posted scanned dyno printout, was there something messed up with the dyno itself? It doesn't even look like the Tq and WHP plot cross at 5252 RPM.

Again, back to being the worst scanned printout ever, was the pull stopped at 6400RPM when HP was still climbing?
squashman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2008, 06:15 PM   #488
patr
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 97
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Vancouver, BC, CANADA
Default

its obvious...

there is something wrong with the car
or something wrong with the way its beng run on the dyno
or something wrong with the way the dyno is being run
or something is causing it to under perform on the second dyno (or prior to arriving)

I would stand behind the original number 100%.

a mustang will pull higher than an RR Dyno Dynamics dyno, period.

Lots of things could be in play - boost and afr graphs for the second set of pulls ? was the car running full ignition advance ? was the IC fully fanned (looking at a big fan doesn't mean it is, you need temps) ? what were the intake temps at the start of the pulls ? was the car changed since it was on the RR dyno in any way at all ? yadda yadda. So in essence, the only people who can tell you why this car pulled what it did in someone else's shop are the ones who pulled it the second time, because from the data they could tell you what the car was doing (if its the car that is the problem). But I do know what it pulled when it was on the RR dyno and I would stand behind those numbers 100%...

Ramp rate, acceleration rate, pull time, boost targets, fanning, current advance, etc. can all lead to make a pull do whatever you want it to. Or lots of other 'magic' factors. That is why you do 'normalized' pulls... or the car could just be doing what its doing.

since its all about 'posting for a friend' it would also be useful to know more about the circumstances, i.e. if your friend wants the problem with their car figured out, if there even is a problem, to get an idea of what car this is. Easiest way to get to the bottom of it is to identify said friend, and pull it again. The mustang will always pull higher... so I would say it would pull about 265 or lower on my dyno if everything remained the same...

There have been lots of interesting things happen with more dynos coming online but I will stand by my numbers 100% as do the local PCA club, the local Nissan club, the local Audi club, ICBC (!), several lower mainland car dealerships, and several manufacturers doing warranty work... etc etc

Last edited by patr; 12-13-2008 at 06:50 PM.
patr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2008, 06:49 PM   #489
007WRX
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 125884
Join Date: Sep 2006
Chapter/Region: VIC
Location: Kelowna
Vehicle:
06 Evo IX MR Black
76 Datsun ZZZZZZZ

Default

What do you guys charge for re-tunes again? I already have a map done by you on the car. I'm looking to buy a few more things and make another visit.

Ryan
007WRX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2008, 06:54 PM   #490
j-velocity
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 193720
Join Date: Nov 2008
Default

The purpose we did the dyno again on Mustang Dyno was because another friend of ours keeps saying Mustang Dyno has lowest number and we were trying to prove he was wrong.

Before we started doing the dyno pull they asked how much power we made at RR we told them 347whp.
The car was exactly the same when doing the two dynos.
RG didn't give us any information other than the print out.
They got one fan up front claiming that's a $4000 fan. (when I was trying to tell them RR have 3 large fans up front, they said the $4000 fan they have there is better than the 3 fans RR have)

Last edited by j-velocity; 12-13-2008 at 07:06 PM.
j-velocity is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2008, 07:13 PM   #491
j-velocity
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 193720
Join Date: Nov 2008
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by squashman View Post
^Aside from being the worst posted scanned dyno printout, was there something messed up with the dyno itself? It doesn't even look like the Tq and WHP plot cross at 5252 RPM.

Again, back to being the worst scanned printout ever, was the pull stopped at 6400RPM when HP was still climbing?

Sorry for the worst posted scanned dyno printout...I uploaded a better one just now....

and yes the pull was stopped at 6414 rpm
j-velocity is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2008, 11:46 PM   #492
tora
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 5851
Join Date: Apr 2001
Chapter/Region: VIC
Location: Vancouver
Vehicle:
09 Forester XT
+ NA Miata

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by j-velocity View Post
The purpose we did the dyno again on Mustang Dyno was because another friend of ours keeps saying Mustang Dyno has lowest number and we were trying to prove he was wrong.

Before we started doing the dyno pull they asked how much power we made at RR we told them 347whp.
The car was exactly the same when doing the two dynos.
RG didn't give us any information other than the print out.
They got one fan up front claiming that's a $4000 fan. (when I was trying to tell them RR have 3 large fans up front, they said the $4000 fan they have there is better than the 3 fans RR have)
Is it at all possible that they would fudge the numbers to try to make RR look bad? How do you know the car was exactly the same and nothing had changed? Have you documented all the relevant data form both pulls?
tora is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2008, 02:23 AM   #493
patr
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 97
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Vancouver, BC, CANADA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by j-velocity View Post
another friend of ours keeps saying Mustang Dyno has lowest number and we were trying to prove he was wrong.
I, along with a handful of other people (count on less than one hand on nasioc), have had the opportunity to tune cars, load and unload, and actually have full control over and run cars on several different dynos of each manufacturer. In other words, I have operated and been in control of several dynapacks in different locations, several dynojets in different locations, several mustang dynos in different locations, and several dyno dynamics dynos in different locations. And I have actually driven my personal car down to dynos (this was all before I bought mine) to compare same car, same state of tune with full datalogging and normalized temps, dyno to dyno.

So, you can trust people that actually have first hand knowledge, or you can do something else.

You can also do a search and read the forums HERE on nasioc, where the people "that know", know.

the dyno dynamics reads lowest. then the mustang. then the dynapack and dynojet (dynapack reads very high though on automatics).

a car that pulls 290 on a mustang will be 265 on my dyno, all things being equal (which they are more often, not equal). Anyways to do a real comparison you need to be in control of the dyno so that you can be sure that it is being run the same way.

Quote:
The car was exactly the same when doing the two dynos.
you mean you didn't mod it, right ? You cant tell what the ecu was doing or the dyno ramp rate etc.

Quote:
They got one fan up front claiming that's a $4000 fan. (when I was trying to tell them RR have 3 large fans up front, they said the $4000 fan they have there is better than the 3 fans RR have)


instead of slamming other shops' gear, maybe there is actually something wrong with the car.

You can even scroll up in this thread where I offered the owners of that shop a case of beer if their 500hp dyno graph car broke 450 on my dyno... and all for free. Do you think I would do that if mine reads higher ?

But just for the record we dont only have three fans up front (its 4 actually) but two in the rear and a dedicated exhaust flute. So 6 fans, two of which are $900 and the other 4 $3k each... but its not about how much they cost. You could buy a $20000 fan that would be useless. If you hold the car at WOT at 4500 RPM, for like 10 seconds, if the car runs the same intake temps and ignition advance that it runs on the road, then you know you have the fanning right. I challenge someone to do that with a single $4000 fan without detting the hell out of their sti. And if I only had $4000 to spend on fans it would be on 2 carpet dryers for ICs and one $2k 36" fan as sold by Acklands Grainger. In fact I challenge someone to even hold any car at full boost and fixed RPM for 10 sconds at all on a lot of dynos. Is this car a top mount car, or a front mount car ?

do people have any idea at all how bad it is to not specifically fan the ICs on these cars ?? Anyways it would be nice to know who's car this is.

There is absolutely no point to having plots made where the car is nbot replicating what its goins to do on the street. We bought the DD despite its low reading because it was and still is the best tuning tool. A pain in the ass to people who want 'fat' numbers, but a godsend to the 400+ out of 400+ folks who have not blown up their engines.

Last edited by patr; 12-14-2008 at 02:38 AM.
patr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2008, 03:55 AM   #494
Loomin
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 118113
Join Date: Jun 2006
Chapter/Region: VIC
Vehicle:
98' Stagea 260RS
Autech Ver.

Default

well, IMO, why should i give a shop a chance who has even had one complaint? ive never heard anything bad about Pats tunes and therefore i would certainly go to them before RG. Blitzkrieg is also decent from what i hear so i would check them out.
Loomin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2009, 02:43 PM   #495
2JZ SX
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 199469
Join Date: Jan 2009
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by squashman View Post
^Aside from being the worst posted scanned dyno printout, was there something messed up with the dyno itself? It doesn't even look like the Tq and WHP plot cross at 5252 RPM.

Again, back to being the worst scanned printout ever, was the pull stopped at 6400RPM when HP was still climbing?
Actually the tq and hp does cross at 5252. You can see on the left and right side of the graph that the hp and tq values aren't on equal scale, that's why it doesn't intersect visually.
2JZ SX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2009, 03:00 PM   #496
MC@RG
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 199471
Join Date: Jan 2009
Default

I feel the need to interject here on my shop's behalf. I don't know how this turned into a "who's dyno reads lower" competition, but regardless there are a few facts not being represented. The Mustang dyno uses a slightly different method of reading horsepower than a Dyno Dynamics. In the Mustang configuration, the dyno uses a combination of roller inertia, which in AWD mode is about 3,800, and eddy current (magnetic) loading. The Dyno Dynamics is set up to be almost purely calculated based on eddy current loading, with the roller inertia being almost negligible. Therefore, there is no ramp rate setting as such, although we do have a 'pull time' setting. This can be switched to a low number, effectively disabling eddy current loading, and operating just off roller inertia, and the numbers will never change more than a couple HP. The one reason we really like the dyno, despite it's low numbers, is it's consistency. There is no setting that can be changed to mess with the numbers, other than a blatantly wrong entry in the calibrations.

The car in question was given ample time between pulls to cool down, and the consistency between 3rd and 4th gears would lead you to believe that heat soak wasn't the issue. We weren't asked to check whether the ECU was being conservative on timing, but AFR and boost were logged, and the engine was running well, we could post more data if you want. 290whp is actually a very respectable number on our dyno, the average late model STi does about 200-210 in stock form, with most modded stock turbo ones being in the 250-260whp range.
MC@RG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2009, 07:07 PM   #497
patr
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 97
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Vancouver, BC, CANADA
Default

ramp rate (DD) == delta rpm rate (Mahle) == pull time (mustang / dynapack). anyways, free (inertia) pull time vs 15sec pull time will most definitely not yield the same timing numbers without IC fanning on a TMIC STi when doing more than 1 pull. at least in my experience, but anyways for fun,

here is DD 242whp:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Yd5XGcnPgY

this car actually pulled 279 on a Mustang dyno @10 secs and 301 on a Dynapack @10secs and it would spin its wheels on the Dynojet (due to the tq numbers), but since its running fixed timing on a standalone: we can look at numbers and say only ones where all pulls start at 91C coolant, and throwing out any runs where coolant > 96 or intake or charge temp were outside of 5deg of the normalized (baseline) pull. And you get these numbers. The only deviations were minute ambient pressure (varying from 101 - 103 kpa), but again we normalized the intake CHARGE temperatures (measured using an STiv8 manifold temp sensor just above the intake ports on the head) at 45 C using each shops' different fan setup. Not intake temp, charge temp.

But to make life simpler for most people (that dont understand) but if you take an NA car that is running maxed timing its easier to compare how the dynos read (because you take the natural different everytime nature of a turbo engine out of the equation). you'd get the same results as the normalized test above. i.e. a 2.5RS pulls 125 or so DD.

Last edited by patr; 01-27-2009 at 03:04 PM.
patr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2009, 04:28 PM   #498
semaj
I'm sorry for apologizing
Moderatour
 
Member#: 113533
Join Date: Apr 2006
Chapter/Region: VIC
Location: Vancouver, BC
Vehicle:
2006 Pathfinder
Off Road

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by patr View Post
Wrong link Pat
semaj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2009, 04:51 PM   #499
007WRX
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 125884
Join Date: Sep 2006
Chapter/Region: VIC
Location: Kelowna
Vehicle:
06 Evo IX MR Black
76 Datsun ZZZZZZZ

Default

Well ya gotta fit a little self promotion in there somewhere
007WRX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2009, 09:01 PM   #500
GlobalWaste
*** Banned ***
 
Member#: 74792
Join Date: Nov 2004
Chapter/Region: VIC
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by semaj View Post
Wrong link Pat
Maybe not, rally cars don't have huge hp numbers (turbo restrictors) but they do have a crazy amount of tq
GlobalWaste is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
I-Club/NASIOC: BC Member's Car Pics Happy_Days Vancouver Impreza Club Forum -- VIC 7857 12-13-2014 04:39 PM
Need Members' Help - Salvage Vehicle Keenan Southern California Impreza Club Forum -- SCIC 5 06-09-2008 06:42 PM
New High Score on our Dyno 415.8 whp WHITE GF8 Proven Power Bragging 7 08-12-2005 03:05 AM
2002 Headwaters Club Rally Stage Scores jmullan Motorsports 0 05-13-2002 04:46 PM
Dyno results posted from NW i-club Dyno Day! sponaugle Factory 2.0L Turbo Powertrain (EJ Series Factory 2.0L Turbo) 26 06-04-2001 11:30 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:52 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.